Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre

I checked the title to see if it was already posted on ATS, based on that it appears it was not.

A Documentary uncovering operations in Fallujah and the use of Napalm, White Phosphorus and other chemical Agents. I am not sure how much truth there is to this. I understand there is propaganda everywhere and I really don't know where this lies in relation to both sides...This Short film contains Graphic Images. If you are sensitive to such images. Please refrain from watching.


Liveleak Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre

thanks for posting this. I have a friend who was in iraq for a while, and when I'd get to talk to him he'd talk about the things he was doing that he didn't like, and say "at least it's not as bad as what happened in fallujah" or "we might have to treat it like fallujah, which will be bad for us and piss everyone off even more..."

Something along those lines, and this should give me a better idea of it...

reply to post by Moose318


S+F.
I'm not surprised by the contents of this video. Disgusted, but not surprised.
Thank you for posting

Thats just horrific. The sooner you guys vote in Ron Paul, the better. Keep your forces at home.

Greetings,

War is hell and the worst invention of mankind. It might someday bring about our own extinction.

What happened in Falujah was a remaining small force of insurgents taking on the full power of the US military. Our goal was to destroy that force with the least cost in causalities for our people. We did that and we did it well. Prisoners were few and far between as the insurgents were like the Japanese of WWII under the Bashida Code, die fighting for their cause which in this case was Islam.

Was it right? No but that depends on your opinion of going into Iraq. After the fact we now know there were no WMDs and the war can't be justified by international law. How many times has the US violated the law? To many but we're the first guys on scene when disaster strikes. Let history be our judge. My best,

reply to post by airforce47

Thank you, Airforce.

In addition, we were going to assault Fallujah and our damned politicians called a halt for negotiations. This left the civilians free to leave, and enabled the insurgents to dig in, and they dug in deeper than ticks.

We started taking too many casualties early, and had I been in command, I'd have called in every B-52 and every B1 in the Air Force.

No use taking casualties, and playing right into the hand of a well prepared defensive position.

Back off burn, and powder it.

Done.

All I have to say is, know wonder the Us is the most hatered country in the world. Listen to yourselves. Dropping bombs from the sky. Hitting woman and children. Cowards way of fighting.

Originally posted by aarys
All I have to say is, know wonder the Us is the most hatered country in the world. Listen to yourselves. Dropping bombs from the sky. Hitting woman and children. Cowards way of fighting.

Yea, I hear what your saying aary.
They don't get it.
Born and raised in the USA, but sad to see what many of my fellow Americans have become.

From many comments I hear from fellow Americans, its an over there problem, or like a game, kill those suckers, or we have a "job" to do and not to think about it.

No empathy or compassion or reflection on the pain we dish out to others.

I guess they wont understand until there are thousands killed in the USA all over and not just one area.

Wow...I am a bit sick to my stomach hearing some of the responses from alleged military personel.

While I agree with doing what is necessary to protect yourself and come home safe, I do not condone the use of torture, nor the Kill Them All attitude.

War is Hell...At least for those people you have no problems using these kinds of weapons on. There used to be a day when man fought man with hand to hand combat. One on one, up close and personal. That was Honor! To die for your Country, Freedoms and what you believed in, having a mutual respect for those who had fallen before your sword.

Today's war is far from those times. Today we spend trillions of dollars building and designing new ways to annihilate another person or entity. We kill using barbaric and torturous methods as outlined in the documentary. White Phosphorus, Napalm, Ricin you name it. We build UAV'S and operate them from a safe location hundreds, perhaps thousands of miles away like a video game, all in the name of freedom and democracy.

The use of todays weaponry and methods, although limiting our losses and casualties, have lost the major element of personal bravery. Where man stood on a hillisde 4,000 strong and on the opposite side the same, if not more. When a solider fought, he was up in his enemies face. That took balls. That was Bravery. The last thing most of them seen was eachother. There is a respect in that...one of savage poetic honor.

It must be hard as hell being a solider in todays world. Knowing that you kill many innocent people, for causes that have nothing to do with why man was originally sent there to begin with. Once there, in the midst of the chaos and the death, one must survive or be killed. Yet many come home and still defend why it was justly necessary to make other human beings suffer in such monsterous ways. Maybe it's your way of dealing with ungodly acts you bestowed on another. I can understand that to a degree. What I can't understand is how you can still support this.

Some say Freedom isn't free, Yet what are we defending at this point? Not much from what I can tell. The United States is out running amok in other countries, when we need to be here taking care of matters at home. And no... it's not home grown terror threats... It's changing the way we live here. Not occupying another country for mineral rights, or flexing our muscle all over the world, While lying to our own people about what we are actually doing. No wonder many other countries hate the American way of life. Because from their eyes, all they see is this massive power coming over and destroying their cities and killing their children and way of life. This War On Terror has been going on know for over 10 years. Thousands upon thousands of human souls have died....For what? Our soldiers come back home, Dead, disfigured, wounded, mentally damaged, or some even realize they have grown a thirst for killing. It just may be a new stimulant...or God complex.

I am tired of sending our kids across seas to get slaughted or to slaughter another. I am tired of feeling like I must support corporate and political wars, in order to be supporting America and the political media hype under the guise of our freedom becoming threatened.

Our Freedom is threatened, But it is not currently from other countries, It is within our own government. That is where the real threats to our freedom are manifested.

This is truly a sad world we live in. I fear for my sons life and exsistence, not knowing what his world will be like after I have left this earth.

Good Post

Their perspective will change real quick when that technology is turned against them someday, but the police etc in the states will have no problems dishing out the pain as well onto US citizens when it is done remotely, and they can't see up and close the pain and suffering they inflict on others.

I spent all night trying to remember what this reminded me of, and I've got it.
The My Lai Massacrein Vietnam, where the soldier's orders were simple: Anything that moves is the enemy; animals, children, the elderly.
War will be our demise. Some people join the army with good intentions and the second they get there it all turns into a video game. I wonder what tweaks in the brain.
Anyway...new day, ever more disgusted.

reply to post by aarys


we have put ourselves on the ground too.

wasssamatta, can't throw camel # hard enough to

take out a little ol' tank?


why is it unfair or we are the bad guys?

then get some f-16's and let's go!

hell, the cia will give you some raptors. oh ya, no one can fly them.

oh yeah, the disingenuous use of vietnam/laos beginning to this "documentary"

is so propaganda!

sorry, you fight and win or die.

What a load of garbage propaganda that was.

WP, as a weapon, is an extremely inefficient killer; which is why it is used for the purposes of illumination and creating smoke screens, and not for killing people. As far as that "ex-Marine" saying it is a "chemical weapon," he's just dumb or something. It's no more a chemical weapon than a bullet, and it is not a chemical weapon as defined by the Chemical Weapons Convention. I think the filmmakers just chose it because it LOOKS spectacular on video, and I'm quite sure that anyone who has ever been anywhere near an exploding WP round will have a properly terrifying story to tell; BUT, WP is NOT a persistent blistering agent as described by that imbecile. I've inhaled WP smoke myself, and other than tasting nasty it left no ill effects.

White Phosphorous - Wiki

The pictures of the bloated bodies were certainly horrific weren't they? That's what happens to bodies when they are slow roasted for weeks or months in a country where it can get to 120 degrees in the shade, and the inside of the mud brick buildings become like ovens; but it has nothing to do with White Phosphorous, which would have certainly burned the clothing off as well. As I said, WP is NOT a blistering agent, it is a combustible chemical reaction that consumes whatever it touches - billowing white smoke - until the WP is expended.

As far as the actual assault on the city? I know this battle quite well as my old unit played a major role, and I followed it in real time. We (Coalition forces) had Fallujah surrounded, and for weeks prior to the assault the city was bombarded with leaflets in English and Arabic, urging the civilians to leave. Television and radio broadcasts urged anyone wishing to leave to do so before hostilities broke out. By the time the Marines assaulted the city, the only inhabitants were hard core, mostly foreign, jihadists and their supporters. While the coalition forces were busy controlling the exodus of civilians from the city, the insurgents were fortifying it with IEDs, tank traps, and assorted other killing zones that would have caused unacceptable friendly casualties.

So basically Fallujah was a free-fire zone, and yeah, a lot of people died; but they weren't civilians, and they weren't killed by WP or any other banned weapons. They were killed by their own stupidity - or an overwhelming desire for 72 virgins - when they tried to stand toe-to-toe with the awesome might and fury of the United States Marine Corp.

OOH RAH!!!


EDIT: BTW, I think the Iraq war was a farce, and I'd like to see Bush indicted for Treason for starting it. I'm just saying that there was NO "Hidden Massacre" in Fallujah. It was a straight up fight between big boys who knew what they were getting into.

Check this out

www.hmforces.co.uk...

From what I have heard from friends that was there is that it was a massacre, I can't back this up as I didn't deploy to Iraq until may 2005.

I sincerely hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're full of crap if you think somehow there's a good or preferable way to kill your enemies.

So you think bombs are inhumane? Which I suppose you're saying that getting in close, sinking a blade in his gut and twisting and levering is much more humane?

Or just shooting them with your personal weapon is a much superior means of killing your foe?

I note that those who think there's a more noble or honorable way of killing your enemy don't have first hand experience. You seem to think it's an exercise in procedure - or technique.

It's not. It' getting this one threat dead, and moving on to the next and the next after that. And if you're really, really good, and very, very lucky, you may live long enough to see the sundown.

You are the very reason massacres occur. You can criticize, you can suggest, you can verbalize your aversions, and you can critique others, but you can't even defend yourselves when utterly ruthless men face you with one intent: kill you.

So you criticize a battle where the civilians had left. You critique a battle where these enemies were dug in well, and had set kill zones everywhere.

That's why I'd love to see what you would decide if it was urass on the line.

You'd call for bombers too. I guarantee you.

reply to post by OldCorp


Why you get your information from wikipedia is beyond me. It is not a good source for info.

Theres a major problem with White Phosphorus. It really hasnt been studied on health effects, especially in war.


There are many forms of Phosphorus and by changing the chemistry in the slightest, can produce gases and acids. It is very plausible that weapons can be altered or made into different toxic forms of white phosphorus to create poisonous gases or acids


Phosphine

(PH3: ) also called Hydrogen Phosphide, a colourless, flammable, extremely toxic gas, with a disagreeable, garlic-like odour. Phosphine is formed by the action of a strong base or hot water on white phosphorus or by the reaction of water with calcium phosphide (Ca3P2). Phosphine is structurally similar to ammonia (NH3), but phosphine is a much poorer solvent than ammonia and is much less soluble in water.

Other links to Phosphine Chemical Terrorism Fact Sheet

Phosphorus Pentoxide

White phosphorus skin exposure results in painful chemical burn injuries. The resultant burn typically appears as a necrotic area with a yellowish color and characteristic garliclike odor. These burns carry a higher risk of morbidity and mortality. White phosphorus is highly lipid soluble and, as such, is believed to have rapid dermal penetration once particles are embedded under the skin. This deep absorption can result in heart, liver, and kidney damage. It has also been postulated that, because of its enhanced lipid solubility, these injuries result in delayed wound healing.

CBRNE



White Phosphorus Burns Some expalnations on burns


So I can keep going on and on and finding much better references than wikipedia. Phosphorus and its varied allotropes can cause serious damage. White phosphorous is the most highly reactive out of the bunch. I am not attacking you, I am just trying to provide factual information. This stuff is bad no matter what way you look at it. Man has always looked for the most horrific ways to kill and torture another. I understand it has been that way through history. But by now, one would thinks those forms would be non existient in todays society. I suppose if the military had the choice to just vaprize someone without sufering, they would stick to the suffering way of killing. After all, how much fun is killing someone if they are instantly gone and piece not flying everywhere? Sadly it's in our nature

reply to post by FarArcher


Uh yeah, I am saying that devices like Napalm and and other inciderary devices, gases etc... are inhumane and a slow suffering death. You forget this was one of the alleged reasons we invaded Hitler. His gassing of the Jewish and hell bent on erasing a society. I would think getting blown to bits in a nanosec is better than dying a slow and miserable death. But on the other hand, fighting that kind of war takes the connection away that man has with eachother. At least when it was face to face, there was a mutual respect and honor for eachother.

BTW, If my family, friends and way of life is ever threatened by force and my families freedoms are physically threaten. You bet your life, I will die for mine fighting. I will not hesitate to be face to face and fight to the death!

reply to post by Moose318

First off, we did NOT "invade" Hitler because he was gassing anyone.

Second, WP is just an unstable phosphorous that ignites upon being exposed to oxygen. It's not a cruel, slow death, although it will certainly light your ass up!

I have a few small WP burns, as I preferred to use it in grenade form over HE fragmentation grenades when it came to clearing bunkers or tunnels.

You see, any tunneler worth his salt knows about frags and will construct a grenade diversion wall for it to bounce off of, and sometimes will include a sump for the reflected grenade to roll into and minimize the blast effect.

So after throwing in a frag, I'd have to take a .45 and go inside - that's just dumb!

Instead, I'd throw in a WP grenade, and it would spread and light up anyone inside. The best part? What wasn't cooked was asphyxiated! It consumed all the oxygen inside. THEN I could clear the bunker, but only after waiting for a half hour or so to enable more oxygen to divert inside.

The WP artillery rounds are primarily used for marking, but I can tell you that the most well-trained, most disciplined troops who are attacking enmasse - will rout in the presence of WP. The first round goes off, and it's every man for himself!

It's not nearly as effective as HE, and will hardly kill anyone, but psychologically, it's a party-buster.

The Israelis wanted to divert attention from what they were actually doing in the south of Gaza in closing the tunnels, and put on a light show with WP in other areas. All eyes were on the WP, a spectacular show!

Air bursts will get everyone's attention.

It was a good ruse, and I was laughing as many uninformed claimed Israel was using WP to somehow multiply casualties. The inverse actually was true.

You use HE for dropping buildings, HE airbursts for casualties, and HE for keeping folks awake.

You use WP airbursts for distraction.

reply to post by Moose318


I think you need to brush up on your history you didn't invade anybody you joined an ongoing war (late I might add) and you joined the war because America was aware of hitlers plans of taking over Europe followed by Africa then southern America the the whole of America (basically America shat itself) and it was possible because he had the Japanese and the Italians on side to do this also the world wasn't aware of what hitler was doing to the Jews until long after the Americans came in, so what are you on about?