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WA State Clamps Down on Gold Sellers

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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In an effort to curb gold related violence, such as home invasions, theft, etc., Washington State is attempting to implement some of the most Draconian Statues known to man. If you thought TSA zombies fondling your secret parts was dicey, check out just a few of the provisions in this Act:

*** Note: while this mentions pawn brokers, this also applies to coin dealers, which is very distinct difference and has a different ramification.


17 (1) Every pawnbroker and secondhand dealer doing business in this
18 state shall maintain wherever that business is conducted a record in
19 which shall be legibly written in the English language, at the time of
20 each transaction, the following information:
21 (a) The signature of the person with whom the transaction is made;
22 (b) The date of the transaction;
23 (c) The name of the person or employee or the identification number
24 of the person or employee conducting the transaction, as required by
25 the applicable chief of police or the county's chief law enforcement
26 officer;
27 (d) The name, date of birth, sex, height, weight, race, and address
28 and telephone number of the person with whom the transaction is made;
29 (e) A complete description of the property pledged, bought, or
30 consigned, including the brand name, serial number, model number or
31 name, any initials or engraving, size, pattern, and color or stone or
32 stones, and in the case of firearms, the caliber, barrel length, type
33 of action, and whether it is a pistol, rifle, or shotgun;
34 (f) The price paid or the amount loaned;
35 (g) The type and identifying number of identification used by the
36 person with whom the transaction was made, which shall consist of a
37 valid drivers license or identification card issued by any state or two
1 pieces of identification issued by a governmental agency, one of which
2 shall be descriptive of the person identified. At all times, one piece
3 of current government issued picture identification will be required;
4 and
5 (h) The nature of the transaction, a number identifying the
6 transaction, the store identification as designated by the applicable
7 law enforcement agency, or the name and address of the business and the
8 name of the person or employee, conducting the transaction, and the
9 location of the property.


Obviously, quite ridiculous, perhaps even unconstitutional, since according to the constitution, gold is the legal tender. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

*** I ask that people not enter into the old gold/end-of-the-world scenarios here that ultimately end up with people either not understanding it or replying, "You can't eat gold." But, it's a free world ...


Interested if people see other clamp downs like this in their state or commonwealth.

Peace
edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: typos

edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: Added top note.




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by alyoshablue
 


I agree with all of it. I think anyone who has been the victim of theft would agree as well.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by alyoshablue
 


What's the big deal?
So they want you to show some ID and identify your true identity before selling some gold?

This is a non issue.

You gotta understand that this law is trying to find a way to stop a problem that's on the rise.
Theft.
If a thief can't sell what they steal. Then crime should go down.
Unless of course the criminals get smart and start selling their stolen goods in other states.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


Well, I appreciate the points of views you all are taking. I can see this being a problem with jewelry at a Pawn Broker, however, why should this affect Bullion or Bars? When you sell other big ticket items, you are not required to provide as much information.

I guess the concern I have is more to the regulation of the metal. By Washington State creating this law is not going to make people stop stealing ... since when has any law stopped people from stealing? As you said, they will just go to another state to sell it.
edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by alyoshablue
 


what is your problem with the most simple of protection, for the buyer,, and for the seller/loanee...

no DRACONIAN issue here... move on ,, LOL....



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by alyoshablue



Obviously, quite ridiculous, perhaps even unconstitutional, since according to the constitution, gold is the legal tender. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

*** I ask that people not enter into the old gold/end-of-the-world scenarios here that ultimately end up with people either not understanding it or replying, "You can't eat gold." But, it's a free world ...



Understandeable this is not a gold vs food topic anyway, this is agout your right to privacy.
I am not sure though if gold is still constitutional after we left the gold standard, i truly don't know and don't care to dig that far either.
But if i wanted to stockpile coffee mugs there should be no reason the state should have to know about this, well unless the coffeemugs were made of uranium or something of the like.
While gold is not my choice i will support anyone and their right to freedom and their pursuit of happiness, so long as it harms none.
S&F



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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Too many people to reply to so this will be a general reply.
This idea is stupid, as if i stole your golden service set i would melt it down into my own ingots and sell it not for the silverware value but the gold value.
Gold is terribly easy to smelt and cast.
And i believe anytime you have to show your "papers" at a store other than to get controlled substances invades my right to privacy.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Let me clarify something: we are not talking about somebody walking into a Pawn shop trying to pawn off a necklace - which is what most of the crime is. We are talking about people who purchased bullion or such and when they attempt to sell it to a coin dealer or someone else, this is the law that get implemented.

So, from the Pawn shop perspective, I get your point and agree with it. From a precious metals aspect of dealer to dealer, I think this has a huge impact.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Looks like an immense invasion of privacy to me. Gold and guns...It is really none of their business.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by g146541
 


I agree and with your assessment on the point. I think what I find disturbing is that people don't find the government's incessant drive to "know everything about you" a little disturbing.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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Draconian measures are always disguised in good intentions. There are positive and negative aspects to this.

On the other hand, if someone breaks into your house and steals a gold coin, how on Earth would you ever A) find the pawn shop it was sold at, and B) be able to prove that the gold coin in the case was the same one stolen from your house?

You may wanna think twice about buying and selling gold and silver from someone who makes you go through all that crap. Their business will eventually feel the sting.

Peace



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by alyoshablue
 


People are not bothered by it yet as they do not have to show their ID when they buy a can of soup.
However there are items in place that collect a pretty good estimate of what most have in their houses, it is your store club card, people are ok with this for now until they "Have" to use their ID. Maybe then more will wake up.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Good comments. I guess what I failed to specify earlier in the post is the impact on this measure. Most people are seeing this from the Pawn Shop perspective, which makes sense. However, as you pointed out, Dr. Love, it is disguised to its real purpose.

And g146541, I think you right. The clamp down is starting to be on everything and I don't expect it to be long before people start to see that - I hope.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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The thread headline is completely misleading. Washington Satte is doing no such thing. This is a bill, not a law. The Washington State Legislature is now in session. Over 2,000 bills have been submitted on every subject imaginable. Historically only a few bills get passed out of committee for a vote of the full Legislature. As of today there has been one public hearing on the bill. It is nowhere near being passed. It isn't even out of committee. It in all liklihood will never get out of committee.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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The government doesn't like investment transactions that don't necesarily have a paper trail, I'll give you one guess why... "curbing gold related violence" lol too funny.
edit on 17-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
The thread headline is completely misleading. Washington Satte is doing no such thing. This is a bill, not a law. The Washington State Legislature is now in session. Over 2,000 bills have been submitted on every subject imaginable. Historically only a few bills get passed out of committee for a vote of the full Legislature. As of today there has been one public hearing on the bill. It is nowhere near being passed. It isn't even out of committee. It in all liklihood will never get out of committee.


Fair enough, however, I thought the sentences introducing the thread clearly state that:


In an effort to curb gold related violence, such as home invasions, theft, etc., Washington State is attempting to implement some of the most Draconian Statues known to man. If you thought TSA zombies fondling your secret parts was dicey, check out just a few of the provisions in this Act:


I was specific to indicate that it was an attempt and not already approved. Granted, it is just a bill. However, it doesn't seem like it is just floating in the queue - in fact, look at the speed in which it moved through the system. Am I reading this wrong or did it pass yesterday?


011 REGULAR SESSION
Jan 31 First reading, referred to Business & Financial Services. (View Original Bill)
Feb 1 Committee relieved of further consideration.
Referred to Public Safety & Emergency Preparedness.
Feb 15 Public hearing in the House Committee on Public Safety & Emergency Preparedness at 10:00 AM. (Committee Materials)
Feb 16 Executive action taken in the House Committee on Public Safety & Emergency Preparedness at 1:30 PM. (Committee Materials)
PSEP - Executive action taken by committee.
PSEP - Majority; 1st substitute bill be substituted, do pass. (Majority Report)

Note: Majority Report: The substitute bill be substituted therefor and the substitute bill do pass
Signed by Representatives Hurst, Chair; Ladenburg, Vice Chair; Pearson, Ranking Minority Member; Klippert, Assistant Ranking Minority Member; Armstrong, Goodman, Hope, Kirby, Moscoso, and Ross.


Link:apps.leg.wa.gov...
edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: Updated link

edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by alyoshablue
I was specific to indicate that it was an attempt and not already approved.


Here's your thread title: "WA State Clamps Down on Gold Sellers"

What part of that statement indicates that this was an attempt? Nothing. That title reads as if Washington Satte is clampung down---now. Even though you said "attempt" in the body of your post, you completely missed the context. Washington State is not attempting anything. All you have a five or six legislators who submitted a bill, one among literally thousands. Not only has it not been voted on, it hasn't even made it out of committee.

As has been pointed out by others here, you also completely missed the context in terms of what the bill is intending, One gets the impression from your post that the government is trying to keep you from buying gold and invading your privacy and that this is part of the 'vast conspiracy' when it really is an attempt to keep thieves from pawning stolen jewlery. If it DID pass, which is unlikely, it would not affect anyone's ability to buy gold.

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

PS. No ill will intended to the OP personally.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by schuyler
 


Your avatar is misleading ... should be a bulldog
. No ill will taken. After reading the bill further, which I should have done prior to posting, I have discovered the following text:


"Secondhand property" means any item of personal property
offered for sale which is not new, including metals in any form, except
postage stamps, coins that are legal tender, bullion in the form of
fabricated hallmarked bars, used books, and clothing of a resale value
of seventy-five dollars or less, except furs.


I got caught up in Gold Fever ... guess I have some crow to eat.
edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: added words

edit on 17-2-2011 by alyoshablue because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
The thread headline is completely misleading. Washington Satte is doing no such thing. This is a bill, not a law.

On this you are correct, but every journey starts with the first step.
Some of us need some forewarning when the armies are amassing on our borders.
This makes this the ideal time to make this thread rather than a thread titled "Hey we just lost our rights".
We have seen a few threads closely titled unfortunately.
Personally i think the person who introduced a bill that is a violation of our rights shouls be thrown out, tarred and feathered.
More oversight is not what we need.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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This sounds more like a test case to see if they can implement a scheme to track down all those who have gold when it comes time to confiscate it for the Elites treasury! One state passes it then another then another in a domino scheme. Any gold I might have will not be traceable if I have anything to say about it. Control of all you possess is the goal! Make no mistake about that fact!

Zindo



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