Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

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reply to post by Johnze


I think this may eventually come to pass. See ya on Wall Street.

reply to post by bricmpt



do we know whether or not the people getting the loans were exclusively americans? if they didn't have to tell the truth, could they feasibly be from anywhere in the world?

would be interesting if, after an investigation, it was found that a huge portion of them all had the same mailing address and weren't even americans.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Why isn't the gent who makes $40K/year who signed a legal contract to get into a no money down loan for $300K which he could never afford be in jail? Because he's a "little guy"?.

Why isn't the bleeding heart government official who mandated that banks give loans to folks who could not afford them in jail? Because his intentions were noble?

Get off the Wall Street is the only party to blame in this situation. Its tired, its old and its an argument filled with half-truths.

It is no different than saying that a rich guy who robs a bank deserves a greater sentence than a homeless gent who robs a bank. Both are equally guilty and both deserve scorn and punishment

edit on 16-2-2011 by dolphinfan because: (no reason given)

The contract was fraudulent, the Bank never loaned anyone any money. They tricked the buyer into thinking he got a loan and then tricked him onto signing the house over to them, then they made millions on his signature and gave him 30 years of servitude for using his signature to CREATE MONEY FROM NOTHING.

Every bank mortgage in America is a fraud and every one of them should be in jail. Not the people they have defrauded. And now congress is trying to pass a law where they do not need to show proof of claim to foreclose on these people so they can continue to hide the fraud. BECAUSE THE BANKS CANNOT PROVE THEY MADE A LOAN, OR HAVE A VALID CLAIM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T! And people are challenging thier foreclosures on this and some are winning.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by eNaR

 

oh.my.gosh.
it's worse than i thought. that video is just......i'm at a loss.

If you think it's bad look what it did to this sad excuse of a human being....

Housing bubble hurts on a speculator

Originally posted by eNaR

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by eNaR

 

oh.my.gosh.
it's worse than i thought. that video is just......i'm at a loss.

If you think it's bad look what it did to this sad excuse of a human being....

Housing bubble hurts on a speculator

are you suggesting that the people who lost everything in this were nazis?

china would have made them history and not after 50yrs.

why don't we adopt that type of justice?

bernnie would have been buried 2weeks after the verdict.


kill these parasites.

it's good for my radical side.

reply to post by hawkiye


The Banksters pushed loans to people whom they knew would not pay them back . Then they forced people to mortgage their homes to pay off credit card debts or face horrendous interest rates and principle reduction rates that would bankrupt most . The real estate bubble was a creation of the money masters to bankrupt the world . Being indebted to the Banksters gives them power and control . Thats is what wealth is , power . These people have everything that money can buy already and now ultimate power , power over life and death , power to own people , to be King , this is their goal . The Earth is to be divided into Fiefdoms . One can read the bible and see where the 10 kings without kingdoms as of yet gives their power to the one . These verses would indicate that they will receive Kingdoms or Fiefdoms . There are 10 rich families that own the 12 Federal Reserve banks . These 10 are Askenazi Jews . And they no doubt own the other major banks of the world including the World Bank .You can draw your own conclusions there .






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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by hawkiye

 

The Banksters pushed loans to people whom they knew would not pay them back . Then they forced people to mortgage their homes to pay off credit card debts or face horrendous interest rates and principle reduction rates that would bankrupt most . The real estate bubble was a creation of the money masters to bankrupt the world . Being indebted to the Banksters gives them power and control . Thats is what wealth is , power . These people have everything that money can buy already and now ultimate power , power over life and death , power to own people , to be King , this is their goal . The Earth is to be divided into Fiefdoms . One can read the bible and see where the 10 kings without kingdoms as of yet gives their power to the one . These verses would indicate that they will receive Kingdoms or Fiefdoms . There are 10 rich families that own the 12 Federal Reserve banks . These 10 are Askenazi Jews . And they no doubt own the other major banks of the world including the World Bank .You can draw your own conclusions there .

I don't disagree but your missing one thing, there were no loans they are phonyl The money is created from nothing on your signature. it had nothing to do without paying them back or people not being able to pay. They didn't care they need our signatures to create money to perpetuate the bubble. They are still doing it today. As soon as most people quite getting the phoney loans the whole system collapses. That is why they are still pulling out all the stops to get people to apply and refinance etc.

There is no money in reality they stole it in 1933 when they confiscated the gold and silver, then they passed laws allowing promissory notes to act as money and pledged the peoples labor and property as collateral (HJR 192). Where do you think the largest supply is promissory notes comes from? It is not federal reserve notes, it is mortgage notes. They don't have to run the printing presses this way, they create it on the spot and log it on a computer screen. Then they sell and trade the note many times over. I And what did you get for lending your signature to them to make millions with? 20-30 years of servitude to a phony mortgage. It is the biggest ponzi scheme scam in the history of the world. The Mob wishes they had a scam this good

reply to post by hawkiye


My question is how is it how can a money manager assume ownership of our country in the 16 years they managed it before they engineered the first depression . They act like it's their money . But to them it's who controls the money controls the country . You have to look at what the bible says . Its spot on about the events of today and it's all about Israel and the build up today that's leading to the destruction of most of Israel .Jesus spoke of those that say they are Jews and are not that put him to death . Those Ashkenazi Jew Banksters are following Gods plan just like Judas , even thought they are said to be Satan worshipers . Money is their Golden calf as it seemed also to be of Judas'. The Mark of the Beast was told of some 2,000 years ago and what that mark would control . Now with the global Internet that will propagate the use of electronic money only and can control your access to that system it is possible to totally control buy,sell and trade . The SDR electronic currency is already in existence and will not be printed . Your hand will never touch it . You have to ask the question how did this situation come to be foretold and now is coming true before any knowledge of electricity or the expanse of the world or that a global governance could orchestrate such a system . There are far greater questions to deliberate such as whats behind all of this, who ( Ashkenazi Jews) is bringing all of this on us and why ?Have you noticed that all of the major Banking positions in the world is taken by Jews . Most if not all of the major news is controlled and owned by them also . Now major political positions , movie media , television are in their hands . The ACLU was started and backed by them . Notice how California can make mandatory for 7th graders to study Islam , take a muslim name , dress muslim and form their own Jihad . But if you mention the name of Jesus you have committed a gross offense . They hate the idea of Jesus . When you look at the news you see Bloomberg , Feldman on and on . My point is that what is happening is all surrounding the Jews and Israel and is prophesied by God to happen and we are looking at a time that will come no matter what you do .

It is a rhetoric but nevertheless interesting question, but what bothers me personally more, is that banks are allowed to make profits again while giving their employees ridiculously high bonuses. In the Netherlands, ING is negotiating with the government to pay a lower interest rate on the massive amount of state aid they have received two years ago.

WHY? What the hell is wrong with this world? The average Joe cannot go to ING and negotiate about a lower interest rate for his mortgage, but ING feels the interest rate they pay is too exorbitant, so they simply call some officials. and a deal will be arranged.

These criminals bear responsibility for this crisis. Why can they make profits again while we are suffering? This shows once again that our governments are ruled by corporate elites. They couldn't care less about us. I'd suggest to force banks to transfer at least 80% of their profits to their respective governments until all damage is reversed.

If no one has mentioned it yet. China is why those guys are still in power. China invested in those companies, and since we owe them so much money a symbiotic relationship between countries were formed. Do some research for yourself, our infrastructures are being sold wholesale to pay off our debts. But no one cares on the upper echelons because it will never hurt them. It will hurt the little guys.

China lost big-time but we engineered the too big to fail to keep chinas wealth level smooth because we owe them our souls.

reply to post by Mdv2


The banks should be paying out bonuses to their staffs, and large ones to the extent that the bank makes money, that is the way the system works and should work. Now you may have issues with the way the banks work with the government and the legitimacy of those profits, but that has nothing to do with what they do with them.

Lets take two professionals, one who works in an investment bank and one who works for State government. They're both mid-level IT folks, say Sr. Programmer/analysts.

The gent at the state makes $75/K a year and no bonus. He has a rich benefits package and a pension which is worth 80% of his annual salary for the rest of his life, or $60K. Assuming that he retires at 65 and has the average mortality which for a man is 82 years of age, he gets $60K/year for those 17 years or $1,020,000 in retirement benefits. OK

The gent who works for the investment makes $90K/year and gets typically 10% bonus a year, or $99K/year (I'll round that up to a 100 for purposes of math). He has to pay a substantial portion of his medical benefits and gets no retirement/pension. Assuming that he lives on what the state gent earns, or $75K and banks the difference and his bonus he is putting away $25K/year. If they retire at the same time, he will have put away $425,000 in principal of which he has to direct that investment on his own. He'll get some return, so say he gets out with about $600K.

Now the state gent has a union to fall back on and is a part of collective barganing - he's difficult to fire. the gent at the investment bank is in an employment at will status and can be fired at any point. Who has got the better deal?

You can take that all the way up to senior levels. The Executive Director at the state level making $200K who gets a pension of $160K for the rest of his life or $2,272,000. The Senior VP at the investment bank making $300K who gets a 30% bonus. Again, he gets no firm funded pension. Living on the same cash, the investment banking gent has $200K/year to put away or $3.4M. Again, he is responsible for investing that money and could make an excellent return on it, or blow it all.

The gent in the investment bank is being compensatated for risk. He has a number of risks. 1. unlike the state worker he can easily be fired. 2. unlike the state worker, he has no pension 3. unlike the state worker he is on the hook for his medical upon retirement. In addition, he does not have enough money to have his retirement managed by the elite of the elite investment bankers. He's using someone with no where the resources. The union gent has the best of the best because he's in the institutional space. He's got the big dogs running his money.

OK, I know that most of the complaints are about the dudes who get the large 7 figure bonuses. Lets chat about them.

They are on a strict pay for performace model. They don't generate positive returns on a portfolio they are running or a book they are trading and they are done, period. If they are in a client facing role and the client does not like them, they are done, at least with that client. No going back to the union hall looking for another job. Wall Street is a small community and getting another job with another firm if you were canned due to investment performance makes it tough to get another one.

Now are they worth what they get paid? I don't know. I do know that the folks in both the public and private pensions in this country are hiring these folks to run their money. A team of investment folks is running the Wisconsin State Teachers Retirement Fund right now. They all have annual cash compensations in the upper 6 if not in the 7 figure range. Is that worth it? Well apparently the union thinks it is because they are meeting with these folks on a quarterly basis and agreeing to pay them substantial fees. If they did not think it was worth it, they could simply run that money themselves. Now some pension funds to run their own money. The largest in the country is CAPLERS the state employment retirement fund for California's public employees. Their top investment gent makes just shy of $5M/year.

Are the worth it? I don't know. I do know that these gents generate significant wealth for folks. If a union is sitting down with their investment advisors regarding their multi $bn pension account, they want results. They are serious about pushing that investment manager to deliver returns. The investment manager is serious to generate returns, not only to keep his job, not only to get paid, but believe it or not, because they take very seriously the obligation they have to deliver a good return for the teachers who are going to retire on that money. It is a serious responsibility and they take it seriously.

Now you can get into all of that crap about how its "not real money" and all of that. Tell that to the retired teacher who just left the cold of Wisconsin and bought a nice condo in Florida to live out his retirement. Tell him he should be happy with the 2.5% return he could have gotten were his pension assets were invested in 30 year bonds vs. the 8.5% his "rich banker" was able to generate for him. Tell him that he should give back the $750 in excess returns he received because its not real money.

Now the gents who run these shops are outrageously over paid. When Hank Paulson left Goldman Sachs for the Treasury he was running Goldman for 6 months in that bonus year before he left to join the government. His bonus that year was $54M.

That is outrageous, but realize that the only people that harms are the shareholders of Goldman Sachs who were ripped off. Nobody else was/is harmed by these bonuses. You may not like it, but you're not harmed by it. The fact of the matter is that these firms can go out of business over night and do on occasion. I know, I worked at E.F. Hutton in the 80s and when the 87 crash hit the firm went under and was bought by Shearson Lehman Brothers at a firesale. The result? 20K folks lost their jobs in 6 months. No severance, no nothing, just come into work one day and there is are security guards all over your floor and piles of boxes. Pack up your personal affects and we'll walk you out. Thanks for the memories.

reply to post by dolphinfan

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the "predatory lending" business, whether it is a bank, morgage company or payday loan shop. Nobody forced these folks to sign the documents and give the little guy a bit of credit. He knew exactly what he was doing and that was try to make some money.

Maybe it would help if you looked at some real statistics.

The FBI investigates mortgage fraud in two distinct areas: Fraud for Profit and Fraud for Housing. Fraud for Profit is sometimes referred to as "Industry Insider Fraud" and the motive is to revolve equity, falsely inflate the value of the property, or issue loans based on fictitious properties. Based on existing investigations and mortgage fraud reporting, 80 percent of all reported fraud losses involve collaboration or collusion by industry insiders. Fraud for Housing represents illegal actions perpetrated solely by the borrower. The simple motive behind this fraud is to acquire and maintain ownership of a house under false pretenses. This type of fraud is typified by a borrower who makes misrepresentations regarding his income or employment history to qualify for a loan.

www.fbi.gov...

reply to post by Xtreme


Predatory loans are a loan made to a person that actually does not qualify and has to accept unreasonable interest rates or variable rates . The predators are not the average bank, its is the Fed owners that dictate what these banks will do and how it is to be done . The Bankster Elite are good at flooding the economy with money and causing a feeling of well being and prosperity and then pull money out of circulation and watch it all fall . Then those people can't pay their loans off and the property goes into foreclosure as well as banks failing and the Fed then uses our money to buy those TOXIC mortgages and failed banks and they some how come to own those failed properties and the poor builder, supplier , ect takes it in the keister . When it's all over they make out like a literal thief . And they look at us as stupid because as a magician keeps your eyes occupied while he does his tricks , so do they . The Housing bubble was transmitted all over the world and our little banks didn't do that . Its a lot bigger than that .

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Anti-Semite - (noun), Those people that are hated by a certain category of Jews, because they see that organized Jewish Supremacy is intricately linked to the Banksters Satanic Empire.

Mazel Tov

reply to post by Mdv2


IMO, the government is just afraid of the public finding out that they aren't really the ones in control of the country.

Some of us already knew that or, at the very least, suspected it. The government is run more by the likes of the big financial companies than it is you and me. That's a serious problem and nothing has been done to change it for the better. We're just as vulnerable in 2011 as we were in 2008.

We still rely on oil from foreign countries so we can get to work in the morning and heat our homes in the Winter without having to pay 20 bucks a gallon. We still spend too much on oil and gas and not enough on Alternative energy.

Everything that we've done to change our financial system since the Great Depression has been a short term patch job to address public uneasiness more than changing the financial system for the better in the long term.

Our country's future is literally in the hands of lobbyists and financial companies. They give themselves bonuses out like lolly pops right after laying waste to our financial system. In some cases, after being bailed out with our money. The CEO's of these companies are more concerned with the price of their umbrella racks than they are the future of the country and financial system. They certainly aren't concerned with the likes of you and me who are responsible for bailing their butts out in the first place.

-ChriS

Originally posted by Xtraeme
reply to post by dolphinfan

 

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the "predatory lending" business, whether it is a bank, morgage company or payday loan shop. Nobody forced these folks to sign the documents and give the little guy a bit of credit. He knew exactly what he was doing and that was try to make some money.

Maybe it would help if you looked at some real statistics.

The FBI investigates mortgage fraud in two distinct areas: Fraud for Profit and Fraud for Housing. Fraud for Profit is sometimes referred to as "Industry Insider Fraud" and the motive is to revolve equity, falsely inflate the value of the property, or issue loans based on fictitious properties. Based on existing investigations and mortgage fraud reporting, 80 percent of all reported fraud losses involve collaboration or collusion by industry insiders. Fraud for Housing represents illegal actions perpetrated solely by the borrower. The simple motive behind this fraud is to acquire and maintain ownership of a house under false pretenses. This type of fraud is typified by a borrower who makes misrepresentations regarding his income or employment history to qualify for a loan.

www.fbi.gov...

You are missing the other poster's point here...

The fact is: ALL of these people KNEW they didn't qualify and went along with whatever the agent put down.

Why?


(1) Commission check is in the mail.
(2) These unqualified people get a house.


Let's say they didn't know.
Is ignorance an excuse?

If a lawyer, agent or broker "tells" you something.
Should you just bend over because you were told to? OR?

Do you double check a contract before signing it OR?
Do you say to yourself, "Yeah, I'm getting stiffed with a high interest rate that will balloon in 1-5 years But...

At least I get a house, right?

Nope.

reply to post by Chinesis

You do realize you're describing fraud, right? Assuming fraud these people could be and should be investigated by the FBI. As of now though the fact is the statistic stands against this argument, and demonstrably shows the majority of mortgage fraud overwhelmingly involves collaboration or collusion by industry insiders. By all means, though, please feel free to report these reckless criminal borrowers. I'd be interested to learn whether or not the FBI thinks you have a legitimate claim.

reply to post by Xtraeme


The fraud is equal on each end. The government comes up with these generalized platitudes about "institutional corruption" and "fraud" and does nothing. Look - Franklin Raines, the head of Fanny Mae took in $40M in cash comp while he was driving the thing into the ground. He's a darling of the administration.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, champions of the little guy spoke in congress and on the Sunday shows about how the government backed mortgage business was healthy months before it imploded. Their incompetence would be grounds for immediate dismissal were they not protected members of congress.

As far as the "little guy" goes, how many times did we all hear in '07 - '08 stories about folks who just sold their house for a 40% increase and upgraded into a bigger house?. How many stories about folks who took the 40% and got into another house? How many about folks who were in the business of flipping houses and pulling cash out each time. These folks were just as greedy as the bankers, just not on the same scale.

Why don't they go after those folks? Because it is politically intenable to do so. If you can't put Franklin Raines in jail, or are not willing to, you are not going to put the plumber on main street in jail because he misrepresented his finances.

The plumber knew the housing market was out of control. The banker knew it was out of control. The politicians knew it was out of control. All three contributed to it being out of control.

Starting in 2005 they forced the Banks to start giving mortgages to illegal immigrants.

HUD released a report saying +5 million illegals walked away from their mortgages. That was years ago.

The official number now is near 20 million illegals have walked away from their mortgages. They bought and sold homes between themselves and fled America with $18 Trillion dollars.

Nobody will get that money back...those people didn't have Social Security numbers to track them and go after the money.

WallStreet/Federal Reserve did it to throw you off track of where the big money stolen has been going. In a year you're going to hear about the mega Trillions stolen by illegal aliens getting mortgages in America and fleeing with the money. Why do you think Mexico and every country below them is hyper booming right now? All that money stolen from us.