The Quest for Physical Immortality

reply to post by ShadowScholar


Thankyou

Yes, antioxidants. Good point. Around the year 2001 someone was trying to sell me antioxidants, and convince me that my cells were "rusting".

"Rusting" is a good example of Iron oxidizing but is frankly a silly way of talking about cells, and I pretty much ignored them. (Yes, I admit it, I ignored what turned out to be very good advice, even with the excise that it was presented very badly). Now, a decade on, antioxidants are a big thing, and every health-food shop wants to sell you "Superfoods" which are known to be (or claimed to be) antioxidants

Goji Berries spring to mind as an immediate example.

But while the mass of humanity flock to each miracle food, Goji, Acai etc.,) all keen to think they will get a few more years of mortal life, questions remain:

* what would the majority of humans DO with just a few more years? Would they do something useful, and beneficial to others? (as I have said, the person I'm curious about has a "plan", a social/political goal to pursue, and is determined to see it through, even though a single 'average' human lifespan is not long enough)

* if someone achieved MASSIVELY extended longevity, even immortality, would they be forced to go into hiding, to prevent the mass of humanity / governments / etc from persecuting them to obtain their secret?

reply to post by SunLightyear


No way to prove it?

Hmm.

You're right, of course, any scenario involving bullets could lead to someone faking their own death - and he HAS spoken of then need to "drop out of sight" if/when he's successful.

Our conversations have revolved around the method by which he feels he'll achieve immortality - I wonder what thought/planning he's put into faking his death and creating a new identity?

Originally posted by Maxine1969
reply to post by ShadowScholar

 

* if someone achieved MASSIVELY extended longevity, even immortality, would they be forced to go into hiding, to prevent the mass of humanity / governments / etc from persecuting them to obtain their secret?

I most likely think so! First off, nearly everyone that knows of your case will start stalking you to discover your secret (or beg you to disclose on how you extended your life), secondly I guess governments/pharmacys/scientists/etc. will be highly interested in you, but not in a good way.

reply to post by SunLightyear


Assume for the sake of discussion that examples of humans who live an unusually long time have already occurred on this planet. Further, we'll take it that living beyond what is considered to be "reasonable" means that faking your own death and creating new identities is pretty much mandatory. Would these people come together (like any group who share common interests) for mutual support and exchange of information, or should we assume (like Travallian* suggests), that they are scattered, isolated, and perhaps not the happiest people in the world

(* see his ebook for insight into his thinking - I'll provide the download link again if requested)

reply to post by PerpetuaVita


Hi

You are (of course) especially welcome to this discussion

There's already been a lot of speculation elsewhere on ATS about "the 12", the (apparent) suicides, and related issues.

I would very much welcome your comments on the possibility that immortality takes such a toll that some have been driven to suicide, and also your thoughts on the fact that my colleague feels so driven to achieve immortality in order to see his goals reach completion.

In face, let's be honest, anything you care to contribute will be of great interest

If you wish to discuss matters off-board, we can arrange something

Many thanks

Maxine x

Originally posted by Maxine1969
reply to post by Maxine1969

 

this is an apology - there has been a lot of activity on this thread and I have been unable to get online for a little while due to an absurd "glitch" with the laptop.

I am online again now, and I intend to review and respond as appropriate

Thankyou everyone for responding

Still reviewing my posts or am I being considered better left unanswered because I am not addressing the issue from a strictly physical perspective?? Or you're considering me one of those tin hat types?? Or??

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Still reviewing my posts or am I being considered better left unanswered because I am not addressing the issue from a strictly physical perspective?? Or you're considering me one of those tin hat types?? Or??

Firstly, I'm reviewing everything, please don't feel offended because I hadn't responded to your post yet. I'm also not sure what a "tin hat type" is, but from the context I assume it's not very complimentary, and I assure you I'm not seeing to offend anyone

Your reply flagged up "the ability to shift our physical bodies into a spirit/light form which will be amazingly powerful and pretty much immortal." I'll admit that I'm having a little trouble getting to grips with quite what's going on here, so please feel free to help me out - it's be restated elsewhere that what we consider to be physical, (ourselves, the chair I'm sitting on, the laptop I'm typing on, etc), are all examples of energy, the vibrational rate of which has slowed to the point where we are able to perceive it with our physical senses. (paraphrasing there). So the argument that the physical body (as a manifestation of energy) could shift into another form (of energy), rings true. However, you mentioned a shaman journey, and I don't think that when you say "spirit/light" form you mean exactly the same thing as something physical simply changing to another form of energy.

If you'd care to elaborate I'm keen to listen

reply to post by Maxine1969


When I started this thread, I thought very hard about revealing my friend's goal (which he feels will take more than one lifetime to achieve), and I decided that it is not relevant to the discussion

(a) the issue at hand is 'immortality'. His goal (in my view) may be a motivating force such as he may better cope with becoming a Methuselah, but the nature of his goal has no relevance to the issue of making a mortal person immortal.

(b) whether his goal is "good, "neutral", or "evil" would no doubt colour opinion as to whether he "ought" to become immortal. He may have the potential to be another Ghandi, or another Hitler. Another St Francis of Assisi, or a Winston Churchill. (and perception is still relevant, because if you had the chance to ask Hitler "are you doing evil?", I feel sure Hitler would say "No, I'm doing GOOD it is Churchill who is EVIL".).

Perhaps my friend has even come up with a radical new theory of social economics which has never ever been seen before, and may have the potential for untold human contentment

I decided that examination of the "goal" would detract from discussion about achieving immortality, and I stand by that decision.

I do not intend to discuss my colleague's motivation.

Sorry.

Originally posted by Maxine1969
Firstly, I'm reviewing everything, please don't feel offended because I hadn't responded to your post yet. I'm also not sure what a "tin hat type" is, but from the context I assume it's not very complimentary, and I assure you I'm not seeing to offend anyone

Your reply flagged up "the ability to shift our physical bodies into a spirit/light form which will be amazingly powerful and pretty much immortal." I'll admit that I'm having a little trouble getting to grips with quite what's going on here, so please feel free to help me out - it's be restated elsewhere that what we consider to be physical, (ourselves, the chair I'm sitting on, the laptop I'm typing on, etc), are all examples of energy, the vibrational rate of which has slowed to the point where we are able to perceive it with our physical senses. (paraphrasing there). So the argument that the physical body (as a manifestation of energy) could shift into another form (of energy), rings true. However, you mentioned a shaman journey, and I don't think that when you say "spirit/light" form you mean exactly the same thing as something physical simply changing to another form of energy.

If you'd care to elaborate I'm keen to listen

Thanks for your response, Maxine.

And a tin hat type are those folks who wander around worrying about the end of the world, and feel personally threatened by some evil force at work so they wear tin foil hats to protect them from the evil energy beams and so on. While indeed I do see a quite glaring plot on the part of the NWO bunch to take over the world aka enslave humanity, and they are indeed trying to suppress this info by calling any who might stumble upon and believe said information indicating their plans and then talk about it, conspiracy nuts, I don't consider myself one, as I don't feel the plot is aimed at me personally and from what I see in the racial unconscious, tin foil wouldn't be all that helpful against the 'evil' rays anyway!

But their plot/agenda is very much visible in the racial unconscious.. part of why there was such a push to 'christian-ize' the native americans (make all that spirit realm stuff 'of the devil and evil' for them, just like they have for us). Their shamans often walked the spirit realm and accessed the racial unconscious. Given enough time, those folks could have proven quite a threat to the NWO and their plans.

Anyway, I went on the shaman journey without expectation (or a pressing question even), and so when the old Indian fellow asked me what I wanted to know--what my question was-- I was completely unprepared, so I asked if I could come back later when I'd thought of one that seemed of sufficient import to ask. He just said, "Oh, you don't need to come back. Just ask and we will answer..." and since then when I think of something and really ponder it, wondering why, usually I get an answer. And they've been some odd answers, no doubt about it.

And yes, everything is energy already.. just vibrating at different frequencies. So when I talk about making the shift into our spirit/light bodies, you are correct to assume I don't mean just changing our frequencies, as so many of the new agers seem to think it will be.

What I see of it in the racial unconscious (since all time is 'now', including the possible futures, if you get far enough 'out' in the spirit realm), is that it is more than just an energy frequency change although that is a necessary part of it.. once you get your energy field high enough, you'll then need to shift 'over'... it is almost a shift into a different plane, for the lack of a better word.

It is same kind of level that a 'ghost' inhabits although without their physical bodies along, they are very wispy and unable to interact with this plane. But with the full enlightenment, because we take our actual physical bodies with us, we will be able to inhabit both levels at once, so all the advantages of a spirit, but all the fun of being human, like eating, watching beautiful sunsets, having sex, plus interacting with physical and spirit level beings.

But it isn't quite like a different dimension; it's like a partial 'phase' in some other 'direction' from a dimension, if that makes sense. Hard to describe. We really don't have the words for it yet, or at least I don't.

reply to post by Maxine1969


Hi Maxine,

Rusting is a bad example, all sales hype to try and sell a product because you're probably a touch more intelligent than the average person. They were aiming for a lower intelligence with that pitch.

I believe if we lived longer and healthier lives, the retirement age would probably increase for one.

I don't think they'd necessarily do good, or evil for that matter, they'd continue being people albeit longer lived ones.

I think if someone had massively extended longevity they would not be hunted down by governments or scientists. They would have the wisdom and by this time the cash necessary to stabilise their existence, most likely they would be in charge of a lot of things. A banking dynasty would be perfect cover as would the church.

People could be born who were genetically different and regrow their damaged cells, and thus would not necessarily have the material possessions to achieve this. But I'm sure they could always be brought into a society of people with longevity once found and would be fairly safe within that structure.

Seems more logical to me.

Why would anyone want immortality in a world like this? I would think it would be a curse.

reply to post by Alethea


Hello

Your post really summarizes very succinctly what a lot of people (including myself) have touched on.

(a) that immortality IN THE CURRENT WORLD could seriously be considered a curse - and may even lead to suicide!

(b) that the person I'm talking about has a specific social/political goal he wants to see through to completion, which would (if successful) make a huge difference in the world

Originally posted by ShadowScholar
reply to post by Maxine1969

 

because you're probably a touch more intelligent than the average person. They were aiming for a lower intelligence with that pitch.

thank you

I don't think they'd necessarily do good, or evil for that matter, they'd continue being people albeit longer lived ones.

All I can say is that my colleague has his social/political "goal" which he's set his heart of achieving, good, evil, or just an average person - who's to judge?

I think if someone had massively extended longevity they would not be hunted down by governments or scientists. They would have the wisdom and by this time the cash necessary to stabilise their existence, most likely they would be in charge of a lot of things. A banking dynasty would be perfect cover as would the church.

People could be born who were genetically different and regrow their damaged cells, and thus would not necessarily have the material possessions to achieve this. But I'm sure they could always be brought into a society of people with longevity once found and would be fairly safe within that structure.

So - you're saying that any existing Methuselahs would have become adept at keeping their longevity hidden, and would perhaps take any new Methuselahs "under their wing"? Supporting the proposition that there is (or is likely to be) a society / support-group of immortals/humans with incredible longevity

Do you think such a group would be actively looking in case a Methuselah was born due to a genetic disposition? Or if a "mortal" was actively seeking to become "immortal"?

reply to post by Maxine1969


This is pure speculation - just thought I'd throw it out there to see what people think.

Everyone heard of the recently identified "immortal" Jellyfish? Which reverts to a sexually immature stage - having reproduced, I assume?

The "goal" of every living thing is, could be said to be to reach sexual maturity, and to successfully reproduce. So does anyone else see a link between this Jellyfish reverting to sexual immaturity, and the supposedly "secret" 6th Tibetan rite (which is appended to the "5 Tibetan rites of longevity").

I'm not bound by any oath of secrecy or anything similar, so in case you haven't come across it, the "6th" rite involves redirecting sexual energy, and leading an existence of pretty much NO SEX AT ALL.

reply to post by Maxine1969


Noones to judge of course, I think if it was population wide, people would do the same old same old. If only certain people lived longer emphasis would be placed on doing something clever with it.

They would've had to become adept at keeping their condition well hidden for obvious reasons yes.

If you or I were immortal would we not seek companionship? Someone who could relate to our position within society? Would we not shield those of us in whom we saw ourselves?

This is just what I would consider as a logical response to this rather intriguing question.

reply to post by Maxine1969


Speculating further - for the sake of discussion, let's assume that my colleague has already been successful in causing the aging process in his physical body to stop or at least slow down - he has effectively then become immortal

He has already stated quite openly that he envisages the need to go into hiding at some point, fake his own death, and adopt a new identity, so this would mean abandoning existing family members and friends. And a relocation would also be necessary, to successfully 'hide' he couldn't risk being recognized by someone if he moved only a few miles away.

What advice would you give him, here and now? I suspect that (for starters) declaring "I am immortal" could get him an extended holiday in a padded cell with one of those nice white coats which does up at the back! Once he was legally deprived of his freedom he would then be vulnerable to Governments agencies who wished to try to extract the technique from him.

So it would be incredibly difficult to share the technique for immortality with the rest of humanity. (If that's what he wanted to do).

I've known this man for in excess of 20 years, and in all that time he has held the belief that physical immortality IS achievable, so I'm sure he's put a lot of thought into the consequences, I'm interested to know what other people think

reply to post by DragonriderGal


Thanks for explaining the "tin hat" reference - so that would be like the guy locally who was arrested stark naked ("looking for UFO's"), and subsequently arrested for trying to put a bucket on top of a public monument ("building a receiver for UFO signals"), and who firmly believes that the Government allowed the NRBS (a financial institution in the UK) to nearly go bust, so the Government would have to bail them out - thus giving the Government access to the NRBS computers - thus allowing the Government to meet their real objective, which was accessing his account details (!)

"tin hat types" ... must remember that phrase

I'll be honest and say that while I'm looking at the information you've supplied about racial memories it's a lot to take on board in one hit, because it's really outside of my field, but doesn't mean that I'm ignoring it. Only that it will take me a little time to get up to speed with a new area of information

Only people afraid of death would want to become immortal. Being immortal would not be fun IMO, lol what if you goto jail for life? Immortality is death in living form. I would never want to be immortal. Earth is hell enough as it is..

SN: I guess the only plus to becoming immortal is that you can stay underwater as long as you want.

Originally posted by ShadowScholar
reply to post by Maxine1969

 

Noones to judge of course, I think if it was population wide, people would do the same old same old. If only certain people lived longer emphasis would be placed on doing something clever with it.

They would've had to become adept at keeping their condition well hidden for obvious reasons yes.

If you or I were immortal would we not seek companionship? Someone who could relate to our position within society? Would we not shield those of us in whom we saw ourselves?

This is just what I would consider as a logical response to this rather intriguing question.

You might want to ask the vampires about being immortal, because they are. When they take over a human body, it is transmuted into a much more immortal form via the virus that supports the sentience of the vampire. They can be killed with too much silver or any other antiviral, but in general, if they get enough to eat, they'll live vastly long lives. And if they get too badly damaged, they can just transfer their sentience into another human body via the virus aka infection, and still remember perfectly well who they are, so even if the actual body dies, their sentience is immortal. Changing bodies is more like changing clothes for them.

My reading of the vampires who have died and ended up in our racial unconscious tells me most of them are quite bored, and they do have to take a LOT of care not be discovered. Of course a human immortal may have less to worry about because they don't go around drinking other people's blood. That does make the vampires a bit more unpopular!

Even the E-l*th aka Elves who got stuck here were very bored after a while. They are an immortal species but can be killed, although it would take a LOT to do so because they can use energy to heal themselves very quickly, just as the vampires can.

Difference is that the virus of the vampires is much harder to kill and it keeps the body alive thru most kinds of should be fatal blows, whereas the elves can only heal themselves if they are aware enough to do so. So a blow to the head of sufficient damage could kill an elf, but not a vampire. You really need antiviral stuff for that.

The Elves do things like terraform worlds as a hobby---takes hundreds of thousands of years--but it keeps them busy. Like Earth for example. They were the ones who sent the asteroid into the earth to kill off all the dinosaurs; dinosaurs aren't manipulatable with energy-based 'glamor' having no advanced brain like mammals have, so the big predator types, especially, were an extreme danger to the elves.

But the ones who got stuck here were quite bored by the time the rescue ships arrived around the turn of B.C. to A.D... they passed the time by playing all the gods of Greece, Rome, Scandinavia, and the rest of Europe. But even still, they started taking their frustrations out on each other. That's what a LOT of the bickering was about in the ancient myths of the gods. Immortals stuck here on earth with only each other to keep themselves company. They didn't have to hide, but it didn't save them from leading a bored life stuffed to the gills with no meaning.

There is no immortal stuff in man, neither flesh nor spirit...
...God alone has immortality...
...but immortality is possible not as a goal at the end of a hard journey...
...but as a gift at the beginning of a rest.

Jesus said, "...whoever lives and believes in me shall never die."

I believe this...