25 arrested at California conservative meeting

Soros Shmoros....It is the uber rich against the world.period.
Corporate people infest every goverment agency.
The infiltration is near universal.
Where do you think goverment goes to get people to manage their agendas?
Thats right straight out of the corporate stable!
The elite pass from govt to industry and back seamlessly!
The Ceo of today is the minister of something tomoprrow, and back and forth they pass....
It is now impossible to determine whether govt policy is origonated by gov, or some corporate agenda!
Ive no use for george, but hes just the tip of a huge iceberg!
If we cannot purify the goverment of corporate influence soon, we are all gonna be screwed.

reply to post by stirling


I agree on this one. I often say government/big business in the same sentence because they are interchangable. I really feel like big business rules america just as much as government if not more.
I know for a fact a business can bill you for 2 phone numbers when you move or charge you extra on almost any bill. They can get away with shutting down your service with no notice. A business can detian you if they don't like something you are doing. They can search you if they just think you are a shopperlifter.(this happened to my pregant sister.) Banks can close down any account and keep your money. If you work for a company they can fire you for any reason even if you have been with them over 10 years.
I have seen how business controls our lives. We are dependent on them for jobs but then they outsource many of them. These are jobs I am willing to do and most other americans are as well. The call center type jobs have been the best jobs for the disabled you sit at a desk or at home and help on the phone. Business even controls who has a home and who doesn't. The whole credit system was incorprated by big business. Mortgage companies are not government entities. This is why Obama had to bail out the banks because they are in charge of the fincial aspect of our country.
We need to seperate big business from government and there needs to be more regulations. NO more hiring illegal aliens, NO more outsourcing, no more firing people with no reason, no more laying people off to cut expenses and no more holding peoples money hostage or trying to double or shut off services. The way business works now Business is a dictatorship not a democracy. If we are supposed to be a democracy we need to see more of it in our business world.
Big Business is part of what is destorying america. There are other countries who have a very low unemployment rate. I wonder if those countires have some sort of protection for workers. I could go on and on about this. Something needs to be done here!

reply to post by The Sword

No matter where the corporation leans, they have no right to be involved in American politics.

I agree. Corporations are legal entities for the purpose of commerce, not entities that should be able to affect politics.

But now that we agree on that point, how would you propose we stop it?

• Outlaw political contributions form corporations?
  
  Remember what a corporation is: a corporation is nothing more than a legal entity created by pooling assets of individuals (and other corporations, but eventually they are all owned by individuals) in a pre-determined ownership format. So while Common Cause shouldn't be allowed to influence politics, what about Charles Koch? He is a person. Same with David Koch. As citizens, shouldn't they be able to voice their opinions in politics?
  
  It gets deeper; what about the CEO who supports a candidate? He is an individual and a citizen, regardless of his job title. It would be extremely easy for a CEO to support a political candidate simply because that candidate supports legislation that benefits the corporation he runs, meaning that the candidate supports more income for him since CEOs typically receive bonuses based on company performance.
  
  In that light, outlawing political contributions from corporations would have little if no effect.
  
  
• Make CEO bonuses illegal
  
  How can we do this fairly without making all bonuses illegal? And consider this: is a tip to a waiter/waitress not a bonus for good service? Yet the tips actually represent the majority of their income... so should we reduce their income by making the majority of it illegal?
  
  The whole idea of justice is that no one is better or worse than another, and all are treated equally under the law.
  
  Also, bonuses are used in emergency situations, such as when a disaster destroys infrastructure. It is common for bonuses to be offered based on speed of completion, to get help to people that need it as fast as possible. Since they will receive those bonuses, companies involved in the repairs will pay overtime, rent additional equipment, or pay extra to suppliers in return for expedited supplies in order to get the job done faster and make more money from it. Remove this incentive, and they will still do the job, but on their normal schedule; overtime and rented equipment costs money, and they will not spend that money if they have no profit incentive due to it. New Orleans would still be trying to dig their way out from Katrina, and the death toll would be higher than it was, if there were no bonuses.
  
  Besides, what's wrong with someone getting extra benefit based on their performance? I wish we did that with Congress; reduce the salary tremendously, and base bonuses on the GDP. You make a mess, you get paid a little, but you do good and you get paid well.
  
  
• Outlaw contributions from corporate officers as well?
  
  As stated above, these officers are also citizens. If we start removing basic rights from one class of citizens, which citizens will be next? This smacks of Jim Crow laws in days of yore.
  
  
• Outlaw corporations completely?
  
  Without the corporate structure, most of the economy would crash and burn immediately. There would be no automobiles, no cell phones, no computer chips, no TV stations, no communications companies, no Internet, no modern appliances, no medical care centers, no medicines, no delivery service except the USPS, no R&D, few jobs, none of the things that help society to prosper.
  
  In order to produce a computer chip, a company has to purchase huge expensive machinery to accurately etch the multiple layers of doped silicon in that chip. Just to know how to work that machinery, they have to employ dozens of engineers to create the mask that is used to etch/deposit each layer. The cost of a single prototype microchip can easily top several million dollars, and the cost of the machinery used can be in the billions. What individual can afford to spend that much in order to produce a tiny microchip in the hopes that they will be able to sell enough to pay for the equipment and labor?
  
  A prototype automobile can also cost millions to design and create, again supported by billions in specialized machinery in order to even be able to turn those millions into a single car.
  
  And so it goes.
  
  To combat this, we have corporations who exist only in order to allow multiple individuals to invest money in business opportunities with others. Someone with a few thousand bucks to spare can pool that with thousands of others in the same situation to create a company worth a few million, which can then undertake large business proposals to make a profit without risking someone's ability to provide for their basic needs. Individuals with limited funds can get a return based on the return of the business, without being forced to ante up the whole amount needed to start and run the business themselves.
  
  
• Outlaw political donations?
  
  Then how exactly are you going to know who is even running for office? A Representative has thousands of constituents; a Senator can have millions. Do you really expect them to drive around and stop at their constituents' homes? There's not enough hours in the day! So in order to get their message out to the voters, they have to advertise. Advertising costs money.... a LOT of money! Where does this money come from? Contributions. Without those contributions, it would be impossible for anyone who is not filthy rich already to run for office, further reducing the choice we already don't have enough of. The end result would be further disenfranchisement of the average person.
  
  
• Make political ads free?
  
  Every single advertising agency would go out of business. No business, regardless of whether it is a corporation, partnership, or proprietorship, can survive giving away its products. Even if some did survive, they would do so only between election cycles, shutting down during the time when their product is forced to be given away for free.
  
  The advertising industry employs a lot of people. That would drive unemployment through the roof every two years, and right now that is the last thing we need.

I'm not trying to shoot down your argument; as I said, I agree in principle. I would just like to hear someone propose a method to stop political contributions from corporate entities that doesn't either remove individual rights or destroy the economy.

TheRedneck

The libs are mad because there belief in a make believe idea, " global warming " was a hoax. Much like the 1970's version of global cooling. So of course the libs are gonna be upset....there idea in which to stand for was false, thus solidifying their ignorance~

Though I don't condone any corporation having a " hand " in politics, if all people would just embrace the freedom of speech, regardless of views, I think that would be a step in the right direction.

Did they then run to a liberal corporate elite and storm their meetings as well?
Nooo? So they only hate conservative corporations/people in politics, and not .. corporations in general?

I see..

Typical..

Funny; if this were conservatives protesting you'd see all the righties on here praising them for being brave and standing against the NWO. But apparently these two people that use their corporate money to influence American elections are okay; George Soros on the other hand is the next coming of Hitler.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Darn shame a moderator cannot give applause to another
You thought I meant your post?
Yeah, I did.

I think we need to put the cap back on corporate political donations and use tax money to televise and broadcast on radio a certain number of either debates or position statements, allowing NO mention of the other candidate and only addressing issues.

Political advertising has sunk to totally negative campaigns against opponents while failing to address the greater needs of the people and the locality/state/nation.
Perhaps this is just another sign of societal decay where fear, mistrust and general negativity are the order of the day.

Excellent post Red

Originally posted by Janky Red
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

So Mr. Pius, if you are such an advocate of free speech why do look down on people exercising their free speech?

edit on 31-1-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

Lets try to analyze this a little deeper shall we? What were the liberals protesting exactly?

Oh yeah they were protesting the belief system of the attendees of the conservative think tank. They disagree with the gatherers being conservatives. What do you suppose the protesters actually want?

If you said they want the state to prevent conservatives and their allies from freely associating with another or from supporting candidates that they like you would be correct. This is the pattern of liberals for half a century now. Yes we support free speech but some speech is more free than others. Only the annointed liberal speech can actually be free, we must wage war against all other thought patterns.

So now do you understand who is suppressing free speech here? I didn't see the "rich" conservatives rush out of their meetings to attack the liberals or denounce their right to protest, but that is exactly the sort of disruptive behavior the liberal rent a mob does. Mainly because it's right out of the "Rules for Radicals' rule book. Alinsky, Marx and Lenin would all be proud of them.

They had a rally in Lafayette after Obama shut down drilling in the gulf of mexico. Thousands of people showed up and the city government had the foresight to not allow the liberal protesters into the stadium but allowed them to protest out doors. Could You imagine a couple of protesters yelling about the evils of offshore drilling especially when over 11% of the city gets their money from offshore contractors. I would venture to say that over 20% of the city gets their money directly or indirectly from the offshore oil industry. I'll tell You what would happen those liberals would have spewed their venom at the wrong person and would probably have gotten their asses kicked by a thousand or so people...


Most of these people just want an honest job and they want zero hand outs from the government or someone else. I'll also venture to say that alot of them are hurting pretty bad right now since the MMS is not issuing permits. I had my salary cut to zero and I now only get paid for when I work which has been 3 weeks in the last 4 months.... So the idea of being nice to Obama supporters is probably the farthest thing from my mind and if anything I think they should share the blame along with BP, MMS, & Obama for my economic condition right now.

I'm actually quite surprised.
I had no idea they arrest Liberals in California.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

The only way to stop the madness that politics has become is not to make new restrictions or laws... it's for the voters to start deciding their leadership on something more substantial than a popularity contest. As for me, I hate the negative campaigning so much that it has become a sure way of getting me to vote for someone else.

Of course, that philosophy has its drawbacks... I voted for Obama.

TheRedneck

Re "protesting the corporations", note that the signs and t shirts in the video, by and large, are professionally printed. Not cheap. This was a big issue with democrats in Florida 2000 (so, incidentally, was bused in "astroturf") Guess they decided if ya can't beat em join em, but it's worse that they're hypocrites about it.
There was every bit as much corporate support outside on the street as there was inside that meeting. Probably more. I doubt the Koch people paid their room, board, meals, and transportation. I doubt they needed to.

to AskTheAnimals- you hit the nail on the head with nothing but issues. We can dream...

to The Redneck- ad agencies are the worst of all. They're the pimps who manipulate and exploit people- practically to the point of mind control, on behalf of corporations, Wall Street, politicians, etc. Ugh! Let em rot. Maybe for once, we could get a magazine with actual content. Or tv wouldn't be- what is it now? It used to be 19 minutes of show and 11 minutes of ads. The pork ad people get is passed on to the consumer...which inflates prices. And if it didn't cost so much to run for political office, maybe more real people could and would run.