Revolution spreading to Britain

Originally posted by gandalphthegrey

Originally posted by pandapowerjamie
So boys and girls, ladies and gents what do you think is going to happen next? After everything that is happening. i.e. Isreal lets off a couple of rounds? Maybe... It is getting pretty heated now!

This was a student rally , in protest of grant cuts , don't go blowing this out of all proportion , because it has absolutely no relevance with whatever else is going on in the world.

IMHO it is both relevant and interconnected... spiralling costs, joblessness, anger at government for failing the people, the rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, all revolving around the perception of corruption.. how is there any difference between nations except on the scale of the problem/solution/response.. and we are catching up (or down, depending on how you look at this) with other nations.

The direction we take all depends on how this Gov responds and just because one set of protests are directly targeting one issue does not (IMHO) preclude it for being included in the whole.

reply to post by thoughtsfull

Thank you for clearing that up, really appreciate that

Originally posted by pandapowerjamie
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

Thank you for clearing that up, really appreciate that

The issue we have is the separate nature of the protests we are having, those who support the students, those who support UKuncut (Tax protests) those who are protesting the closure of RAF sites like Kinloss, those who are protesting the council jobs losses etc..

Eventually if left unchecked all those separate protests will all converge into a single protest movement for change.. and that is what I believe (IMHO) we are seeing in the ME, and Tunisia has given those in authoritarian regimes the confidence they to can effect change, so have jumped the stage of individual targeted protests to mass protest..

reply to post by thoughtsfull


So what your saying in your opinion is that countries like Tunisia, Egypt have set an example of liberation? And thus people are beginning to realise that being more militant can have more of an effect then they thought...?

Originally posted by pandapowerjamie
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

So what your saying in your opinion is that countries like Tunisia, Egypt have set an example of liberation? And thus people are beginning to realise that being more militant can have more of an effect then they thought...?

In my opinion the Tunisian people have paved the way for a style of protest that works in the region and against authoritarian regimes.. they gained success and with success comes confidence..

So if Egyptians manage to rid themselves of Mubarak then the confidence will grow exponentially, and so will the momentum of this protest.

Conversely if Mubarak uses tactics that keep in him power then where ever these types of protests pop up those tactics will be used to maintain power.

Currently no one seems to know how to deal with these protests since the movement is quite simple.. change of regime, seemingly without any other real demands for any regime to fight against or negotiate with.

We certainly live in interesting times..

For us tho, it does depend on how the Gov respond (as in other Western nations) tho given our Govs current reaction and a potential growth in unemployment by 1 million with the current bout of cuts it does seem to me like we are heading down the same path..

Originally posted by pandapowerjamie
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

So what your saying in your opinion is that countries like Tunisia, Egypt have set an example of liberation? And thus people are beginning to realise that being more militant can have more of an effect then they thought...?

No, it just means you should stop being so passive, as if they educed you with some type of drugs, that makes you "not give a ****".

Sorry for the vial language, but it was called for.

reply to post by impressme


You are correct in that we are not as stupid as our government seems to like to think we are. However, what they are counting on is that our apathy continues to grow, basically rendering us useless to our ownselves. I wish not to bash my own countrymen, not at all. I love my country, but I think that we have totally missed the mark in that we had (and still have) the opportunity to be a leader in a worldwide call for this mess to stop.

I hate what the banksters have done to not only this country (the USA) but what they have managed to orchestrate on a global level. As an ordinary person I can empathize with the Egyptian protester who is urning for change so desperately they take to the streets. As an ordinary person I can relate to the UK student who of no making of their own has seen a promising future ripped right out from under them with a stroke of a pen. And, as an American citizen, I can only cringe as I see our rights in this country slip through our fingers one by one and wonder when it will be our turn, what will be the tipping point, that turns our own apathy into action.

"All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing". - Edmund Burke

These people who are protesting the streets in Tunisia, Turkey, Egypt are inspiring. As mentioned earlier and I feel it is true as well we have not suffered as bad as these countries have for poverty and unemployment. Where as the in the western countries the jobs are on a steady decline due to outsourcing to countries with a weak dollar ,Or machines and computers are fully capable to replace most of the working class. And in a society where cheaper labor in needed to yield maximum profit it just a matter of time. I do not think we are that far off and the fresh memory of what is going on in the middle east people will rise when it reaches a critical mass. They can flood countries, corporations, banks, with money that magically materialize out of thin air and hoard the money for themselves while reaching record level debts that cannot possibly be paid off with out extreme tax hikes from diminishing working class . They cannot fight the inevitable for ever.

reply to post by 12voltz


While I agree wholeheartedly that a great many politicians and governments are corrupt, as has been so well stated by "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely", I think there a a large difference between the fairly transparent elections in Britain, the potential for changes in government frequently, and the free media, and the government of Egypt headed by an elderly dictator that has rigged elections, hired family members and allowed nepotism to occur, martial law, and restricted media. No government will make all people happy. There will always be protesters, and for that matter, nihilists and anarchists that want no government at all.

Originally posted by 12voltz
reply to post by reatarded

 

Not really ,I think Britain has the dole for the unemployed,not sure about Tunisia,i will have to look it up.Sure, take away the dole and the revolution will have some fuel ,but for now it's going to burn out quickly.Not enough struggling people with the conviction to see it through.

Yes britain has the dole for the unemployed but how long will the government keep paying that before its cut? Besides for those who have worked for years and paid their NI, its their money anyways...it was simply stolen by the government

To be honest, I don't get the protests over the education stuff at all, seems like whatever education they've paid for already, it hasn't been much use so far.

If they'd actually read, listened and understood, the university tuition fee increase will help them and the country long term by making it easier if you don't earn more than £25,000 a year in a job after graduating. If that's the case, the government's plan allows that person to pay back in smaller increments while students who are rich enough while going through uni will pay the full £9,000 per year. Thus not all students will have to pay it like they claim.

They also claim that getting rid of EMA will make them turn to crime when in reality, EMA ia paid in different amounts according to wherever you live in the country, some getting £10 a week, others getting £30 or more a week. If everyone is at the same base level then it helps the economy and you wouldn't have to feel like you'd be better off in one college or uni than the one you're currently enrolled in.

These protesters just seem to be protest-happy and willing to start violence to then blame the police and the government instead of using the alleged brains that got them into higher education establishments to actually understand what's going on.

The fact they're so happy to do what they do and try to incite revolution for the sake of having all of their books paid for them while they go out drinking copious amounts of alcohol and not getting their predicted grades at exam time makes me very frightened for my future as a citizen of this country.

Originally posted by curious7
To be honest, I don't get the protests over the education stuff at all, seems like whatever education they've paid for already, it hasn't been much use so far.

If they'd actually read, listened and understood, the university tuition fee increase will help them and the country long term by making it easier if you don't earn more than £25,000 a year in a job after graduating. If that's the case, the government's plan allows that person to pay back in smaller increments while students who are rich enough while going through uni will pay the full £9,000 per year. Thus not all students will have to pay it like they claim.

They also claim that getting rid of EMA will make them turn to crime when in reality, EMA ia paid in different amounts according to wherever you live in the country, some getting £10 a week, others getting £30 or more a week. If everyone is at the same base level then it helps the economy and you wouldn't have to feel like you'd be better off in one college or uni than the one you're currently enrolled in.

These protesters just seem to be protest-happy and willing to start violence to then blame the police and the government instead of using the alleged brains that got them into higher education establishments to actually understand what's going on.

The fact they're so happy to do what they do and try to incite revolution for the sake of having all of their books paid for them while they go out drinking copious amounts of alcohol and not getting their predicted grades at exam time makes me very frightened for my future as a citizen of this country.

And i'm sure the same can be said for the coalition government that run this joke of a country. They run around blaming labour for everything and then do not use their brains to sort it out, instead the cut the services required and keep those that aren't, they are intentionally making people p*ssed off, the government is ripping every british paying citizen off and everybody here in the UK just bends over!

The students are standing up for what they believe, we live in a democracy and the people should be making the descisions, not the government.

those Nimrods being chopped up was, perhaps, punishment for the workers voting labour? I have noticed those counties that voted Conservative have had their roads repaired!
The meek shall inherit the earth, yes, all two meters of it (two yards six inches)

reply to post by jrmcleod


They run around blaming Labour because it's Labour that screwed up the country. Then again, Scotland IS a pro-Labour nation anyway so we may have to agree to disagree right there because I really don't wish to have a political argument here or anywhere.

I'm not a Conservative supporter or a supporter of any party but I felt compelled to vote at last year's general election purely to keep Labour out of power because of what they'd done to the country and little did I know some idiots would vote the Lib Dems thinking they'd actually live up to their pledges which then brought about the Coalition in the first place when an outright majority didn't happen.

reply to post by curious7


I have to disagree with you there. Until you have experienced university level education in the UK, you cannot understand how much of a rip off it is. You basically pay for access to a library, Internet, and labs, depending on your degree of choice.

You can get a public library card for free, and most students have Internet access at home too. So WTF are you really paying £9000 a year for? To use a lab twice a month? To prop up your lecturers work?

For lectures themselves? BS, you will have to do all the work yourself, if you want a decent degree level like a 2:1 or first, you need to do outside reading as stressed from day one. As in material not contained within your course syllabus (Internet). Help from a lecturer? Maybe, but remember they have possibly 30 other students to deal with during any given semester.

With these fee hikes, university, if not for a vocational degree, is a joke.

If they're going to riot in London I hope they do it properly. I don't agree with the peaceful protests, it doesn't have enough of an impact. I say destroy the parliament buildings, but leave the shops etc alone.

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


I couldn't agree with you more. Peaceful protests may work over time but what is needed now is a short sharp shock to the government so that they realise they can't keep pushing is around and enforcing price rises and tax hikes on us. All the minor protests at the moment, students, those trying to get big businesses to pay their fair share of tax, fuel protesters, etc, will be joined in a months time (March) by the countries major unions and at that point either of two things will happen.
1. There will be major riots, blockades, country wide civil disturbances which will effect us all.
or...
2. Everyone will simply wak out on a national strike at which point the country will come to grinding halt...
Either way the government will fall so dont be surprised if it relents on a few issues such as fuel prices to ensure it stays in power.

reply to post by CholmondleyWarner


Thank God, someone else with some sense of the real world. I hope it does happen soon, I'm personally feeling the crunch and will be rioting with the best if it comes to that.

OP you might want to choose your words better, Britain is a far cry away from Revolution, it certainly hasn't spread here yet. Your title is VERY misleading.

Yes there have been student protests, due to a massive rise in student tuition fee's, that is all... No revolution.

The British public IMO need to go through a hell of a lot more before we even take to the streets En Masse, so revolution is a long way off if at all. The British public at the mo moment are too apathetic.

I remember years ago there was a huge march in London that I attended, protesting against the invasion of Iraq and there were over a million of us in the streets that day and it made no difference to the governments decision.

So using that as an example, if Britain were to have a revolution there would have to be millions of us all over the country in the streets, I'm talking 70%+ of the UK's population in order to make ANY difference.

Originally posted by Big Raging Loner
reply to post by curious7

 

I have to disagree with you there. Until you have experienced university level education in the UK, you cannot understand how much of a rip off it is. You basically pay for access to a library, Internet, and labs, depending on your degree of choice.

You can get a public library card for free, and most students have Internet access at home too. So WTF are you really paying £9000 a year for? To use a lab twice a month? To prop up your lecturers work?

For lectures themselves? BS, you will have to do all the work yourself, if you want a decent degree level like a 2:1 or first, you need to do outside reading as stressed from day one. As in material not contained within your course syllabus (Internet). Help from a lecturer? Maybe, but remember they have possibly 30 other students to deal with during any given semester.

With these fee hikes, university, if not for a vocational degree, is a joke.

Excellent points you raise. It does beg the question then do you actually need a brick and mortar institution?