The Taliban in Pakistan:

The Taliban in Pakistan:

www.clicker.com

America’s war on terror is falling flat on its face. The military conflict in neighboring Afghanistan, repeatedly cited by locals, sends a constant flood of guns, refugees, militants, and heroin flowing into Pakistan.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: Review This Link: Instructions for the Breaking News Forums: Copy The Exact Headline

Watch the video at the site. It shows how the war on terror has increased the Taliban's inflence in Pakistan. Unmanned drone bombings turn entire villages to become Taliban sympethisers. The videographer shows how things have only gotten worse since his last report.

Any sensible man can read the dynamics. Who is acting with more reason, pissed of Pakistanis or American strategists spending billions of dollars only to make things worse?

I think the answer is clear.

www.clicker.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Why would the US continue a failing strategy except for the fact that the war industry is making huge profits off of the sale of armaments. In the end it is all of us who pay and suffer the consequences.

One of the Pakistani authorities makes a good case when he states how much more could have been accomplished spending those billions of dollars on taking care of our own cities and needs or other projects to improve the world's situation instead of on war and indiscriminate killing. I fail to understand the mindset of people who continue to sign up for this kind of warfare. Blind faith is stupid; but it is very successfully encouraged by our side.

Originally posted by wayno
Watch the video at the site. It shows how the war on terror has increased the Taliban's inflence in Pakistan. Unmanned drone bombings turn entire villages to become Taliban sympethisers. The videographer shows how things have only gotten worse since his last report.

Are you kidding me?
Anybody who has followed the situation closely over the past 7 or 8 years knows what really has gone on. Pakistan has been harboring the Taliban for years, Ever since the Afghan Northern alliance kicked them to the street back in 2001 with Western Special Forces and Air support....

I think the answer is clear.

If the Pakistanis were so against the Taliban they would have gone after them harder in their country years ago instead of turning a blind eye while the Taliban kept bouncing back and forth across their border with Afghanistan, Using Pakistan as their support base for recruits, supplies and winter hide out. Yet the Pakistanis played their game of trying to influence the direction Afghanistan is headed.

Seems to me they are getting burned by their own match.

The Taliban had all but ceased Opium production
in Afghanistan before the US invaded.
Now, the CIA runs drug ops in and out
like it was cotton candy.

Who is the lessor of the evils here ???

reply to post by SLAYER69


Are you saying that the info in the video is false? There may always have been a Taliban component in Pakistan but nothing like it is now. The reason it has gained so much strength is entirely thanks to the way the Americans are conducting this fight.

That video report make a very strong point IMHO.

It's true that if you say something enough times people will believe it.

With regards to the heroin production-CIA angle which gets thrown around these boards like popcorn is that many fail to look at the real situation in Afghanistan.

Look at the following maps. The biggest heroin producing regions of Afghanistan over the past 7 or 8 years have been under Taliban control. Not US/NATO/Afghan control.

Taliban controlled provinces

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1228b61870cb.jpg[/atsimg]

Largest Opium producing provinces

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4c9de0e46600.gif[/atsimg]



I know it's a popular stance about how the Taliban almost stopped production during their control of Afghanistan. The real reason was they were in business and they reduced production in locations that weren't controlled by them to raise the profit margin by lowering the supply for the Decades old Russian demand. they have been selling it for years.

Notice how they did a 180 when they had to finance their war against the West they turned to the very crop they were supposedly against? Pakistan has for decades been a supply route for heroin out of the region.

It might help to research the Golden Crescent

The Golden Crescent is the name given to one of Asia's two principal areas of illicit opium production, located at the crossroads of Central, South, and Western Asia. This space overlaps three nations, Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan, whose mountainous peripheries define the crescent, though only Afghanistan and Pakistan produce opium, with Iran being a consumer and trans-shipment route for the smuggled opiates.[1]

Originally posted by wayno

The Taliban in Pakistan: We've got a bigger problem now.

www.clicker.com

America’s war on terror is falling flat on its face. The military conflict in neighboring Afghanistan, repeatedly cited by locals, sends a constant flood of guns, refugees, militants, and heroin flowing into Pakistan.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I don't believe we are over their for the conflict that's being presented mainstream through the media. If we were, we could literally mop up the floor with those Taliban in a matter of days and be done with it. The real question is, why are we their in the first place ? What are we looking for or doing ?

It goes back further. The Pakistani intelligence service trained and supported the Taliban in the civil war (1996-1997) that gave the Taliban control of large parts of Afghanistan. The intent was to have proxy control of afghanistan through the Taliban.

Would have worked too if they hadn't got into bed with Bin Ladens gang.

Post 2001 NATO helped push out of power the same gang Pakistan pushed into power.

reply to post by VI0811


We all know that the reasons for going there are not the ones the government has been telling us. Not being part of the inner circle I can't say I know definitely, but it is not hard to piece the puzzle together when you just look at the individual bits - what fits.

Mainly I would say it is for control of the region by the west, on behalf of multi-national corps. The war machine is a "for profit" conglomerate and has made extreme sums of money carrying out this war. Who, talking persons and families here, are the ones benefitting from those corporate profits??

Its an old story. The same people all the time. The American public continues to be sacrificed -- in terms of the lives of their children, their wallets and savings, and their way of life to serve this need. It is as if they cannot bear to even think that they have been duped. The brainwashing goes deep.

There is nothing beneficial to any but a few out of continuuing this trumped up conflict.

reply to post by wayno


Interesting perspective and I agree there is larger motives....


I've written a couple of extensive threads on the topic,
Don't let the titles fool you they are tied in and many of ATSs more topic astute members have contributed.

The New Great Game

AND

Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

Originally posted by boondock-saint
The Taliban had all but ceased Opium production
in Afghanistan before the US invaded.
Now, the CIA runs drug ops in and out
like it was cotton candy.

Who is the lessor of the evils here ???

Oh, please. Here are some of the banned things under Taliban rule:

www.rawa.org...

Who is really the lesser evil here?

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by VI0811

 

We all know that the reasons for going there are not the ones the government has been telling us. Not being part of the inner circle I can't say I know definitely, but it is not hard to piece the puzzle together when you just look at the individual bits - what fits.

Mainly I would say it is for control of the region by the west, on behalf of multi-national corps. The war machine is a "for profit" conglomerate and has made extreme sums of money carrying out this war. Who, talking persons and families here, are the ones benefitting from those corporate profits??

Its an old story. The same people all the time. The American public continues to be sacrificed -- in terms of the lives of their children, their wallets and savings, and their way of life to serve this need. It is as if they cannot bear to even think that they have been duped. The brainwashing goes deep.

There is nothing beneficial to any but a few out of continuuing this trumped up conflict.

Their are also the rumors ( I've heard from friends bases over their who have visually seen ) that their is some sort of archeological crusade for something going on in both Irag and Afghanistan.

Why would the US continue a failing strategy except for the fact that the war industry is making huge profits off of the sale of armaments. In the end it is all of us who pay and suffer the consequences.

One of the Pakistani authorities makes a good case when he states how much more could have been accomplished spending those billions of dollars on taking care of our own cities and needs or other projects to improve the world's situation instead of on war and indiscriminate killing. I fail to understand the mindset of people who continue to sign up for this kind of warfare. Blind faith is stupid; but it is very successfully encouraged by our side.

edit on 1/29/2011 by wayno because: (no reason given)

You edited your original post and added a little DRAMA after you felt some heat.

reply to post by justwokeup

Pakistan Taliban leader vows to fight US troops - 6 Oct 09

Originally posted by wayno
Are you saying that the info in the video is false? There may always have been a Taliban component in Pakistan but nothing like it is now.

Once upon a time... not so long ago...

I got a really good deal on Lapis Lazuli, a semi precious stone from Afghanistan. The shipment came via Pakistan to my supplier. It seems Pakistan was getting the material from the Taliban who were selling it to buy guns. This was back when the RUSSIANS were in the same boat in Afghanistan as we are today.

I seem to recall we were in favor of the Taliban resistance when it was against the Russians..

How soon we forget eh?

Originally posted by justwokeup
It goes back further. The Pakistani intelligence service trained and supported the Taliban in the civil war (1996-1997) that gave the Taliban control of large parts of Afghanistan. The intent was to have proxy control of afghanistan through the Taliban.

Would have worked too if they hadn't got into bed with Bin Ladens gang.

Post 2001 NATO helped push out of power the same gang Pakistan pushed into power.

It goes back even further than that. The Taliban ORIGINATED in Pakistani madrasas, and were exported to Afghanistan. Your assessment of the reasons for it are right on the money - they (the ISI) wanted proxy control of Afghanistan.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by wayno
Are you saying that the info in the video is false? There may always have been a Taliban component in Pakistan but nothing like it is now.

Once upon a time... not so long ago...

I got a really good deal on Lapis Lazuli, a semi precious stone from Afghanistan. The shipment came via Pakistan to my supplier. It seems Pakistan was getting the material from the Taliban who were selling it to buy guns. This was back when the RUSSIANS were in the same boat in Afghanistan as we are today.

I seem to recall we were in favor of the Taliban resistance when it was against the Russians..

How soon we forget eh?

There was no Taliban during the Soviet Afghan War.

The last Soviet troops exited in Feb, 1989, and the Taliban originated in 1994, took operational control of large parts of the country in 1996. Their origin was in the Pakistani madrassas. Originally, Pakistan armed and backed the faction of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in a bid to continue destabilization in Afghanistan, but Hekmatyar (the only faction to continue fighting the new interim government after the Peshawar Accords) failed, and they then backed the Taliban, with more success.

Their origin in the madrassas is reflected in their very name. "Taliban" is the plural of "talib", meaning "student". Taliban literally means "the students".

Hekmatyar was a strange case, but easy to predict. He just wants power, and will fight alongside anyone who he thinks can and will deliver that to him. Originally he was warlord of a faction of the mujahideen called "Hezbi-i-Islami" during the Soviet Afghan War, fighting against the Soviets. Pockets of his boys were to be found around Nangarhar Province - around the Khyber Pass, Jalalabad, that area. After that war, when the Peshawar Accords were agreed to in '92, all the muj factions laid down their arms, except for Hekmatyar, who continued fighting the new government because he didn't get a big enough slice of the pie to suit him. At the beginning of THIS Afghan War, he was part of the Northern Alliance, fighting against the Taliban, and now he's switched sides again, fighting WITH the Taliban.

It's hard to keep track of the players over there without a scorecard, as shown by Hekmatyar's sudden and continual turncoating. I think you may have confused the former mujahideen with the current Taliban. It's easy to do - I see it at ATS all the time.

reply to post by nenothtu




It's not the Taliban we supported but the mujaheddin.
I guess I was wrong in that sometimes....

No matter how many times people read that one they just won't believe it.

reply to post by SLAYER69


There are agenda-driven people at ATS and in the world at large who are deliberately blurring the lines between the two, trying to convince us that they are the same when in fact they are not. Many have been convinced by them, and it's an easy thing to be convinced of - especially considering the prevalence of the disinformation work in that regard. That's why I periodically post these "correction" posts, to counter them with cold hard facts, and keep folks from falling into that trap.

ATS is all about the education, isn't it?