The ability to think

When we are young we are exposed to situations and experiences that we can't control. From those situations we learn, whether it be words, rules, talents, etc. We absorb like a sponge accepting just about everything without question because we don't have a mind of reason yet. Eventually we are able to think on our own with what we have been taught. We end up thinking with what we know, so now we decide and make choices based on our rules and beliefs that we learned.

If we make decisions based on beliefs do we really have control in our decision making? It seems like our beliefs will be the deciding factor in our decisions in life.

reply to post by Ralphy


I think we are more impulsive on the thoughts but in a way we don't do bad things. Impulsive, quicker to act on intuition.

Originally posted by Ralphy

When we are young we are exposed to situations and experiences that we can't control. From those situations we learn, whether it be words, rules, talents, etc. We absorb like a sponge accepting just about everything without question because we don't have a mind of reason yet. Eventually we are able to think on our own with what we have been taught. We end up thinking with what we know, so now we decide and make choices based on our rules and beliefs that we learned.

If we make decisions based on beliefs do we really have control in our decision making? It seems like our beliefs will be the deciding factor in our decisions in life.

If we make decisions based on a belief, you are likey to be wrong.

Decisions based on facts is the best way to go.


edit: Having said that we have faith in the facts we are told and not experienced or proven first hand so .....

reply to post by Ralphy


This is why it's important to watch what you fill your mind with. If you fill it with garbage, the decisions you make will be based on .. garbage.

reply to post by Ralphy

Perhaps this is why we have to unlearn so much.
We are caught in a self perpetuating circle.
Children are taught things by adults who in turn
Were taught things by adults...ad infinitum
Our conditioning brings belief...and not only that,
The word becomes the thing...
In the end we just have to grow up and try to discover
Our own truths.

Generally I wouldn't bother to reply in complete disagreement with your post. However, untenable you may find the premise, we are all endowed with fully functional brains from the outset - we do not learn how to think - others may direct our thinking, but cognition appears within days of birth and grows more directed over time. The kinds of habitual thought patterns and learned responses alluded to in your post in no way require "thinking" any more than moving away from an uncomfortable heat source requires a brain (even plants can do this).
Holding a belief (being a repository for a thought) and "thinking" are completely different processes - and there are many who would argue that "believing" and "thinking" are mutually exclusive processes. Respectfully disagree.

ganjoa

reply to post by ganjoa


Doesn't our thinking coordinate with our beliefs?

If we are taught we are worthless from when we were born, then there is a good chance we will believe that as adults. So we would begin to think around the belief we are worthless and that would affect our behavior and decisions.

We are taught in many ways and directions, but our cognitive ability has not disapeared, it is surpressed by our believe.
And according to our knowledge, which is what we have been taught, we act.
We do not think but react according to our background, the taught is our knowledge and background.
We look with that background and come to conclusions.

It is turned upside down,
Perception, our ability to see and be aware of our surrounding through our senses is the key to build consciousness.
Not by being taught, then it is merely the accumulation of knowledge, concepts.

reply to post by Ralphy


The short answer is no.
Accepting someone else's idea or belief is not a thought process - so again I must disagree that persons are not taught from birth in the manner you describe - there is no learning process. I will grant that persons are indoctrinated to accept certain ideas from an early age, but this is neither teaching or learning as no thought processes are engaged (only memory storage). Thinking about your thinking isn't particularly productive unless you can distinguish fact from thought from belief.

ganjoa

reply to post by godddd


Good points - especially how our beliefs suppress our thinking in certain areas. I am still unsure we are really 'taught" anything as in my experience what has been learned has been by personal choice exclusive of external influences determined to "teach".

ganjoa

Beliefs, values, understanding, knowledge, imagination and abilities all play a part with the situations we are confronted with and how our mind responds. The brain is a very complex machine that learns through trial and error. There are some indications we also have a spiritual component with how we understand and respond to our world. Our reflexes are the most basic level of neurological processing, next I am leaning towards our self determination for deciding how we chose and respond to the vast array of input we receive. There is lots to it and the study continues.

That is one thing children have a lot of is imagination as we grow older we forget some of that. That is why many of us forget to innovate even in our lives. The old adage of "Just grow up already." in part is not true. In fact the opposite should be think like a child and you will have a great creative, imaginative, and innovative life. I am not saying for everyone to go out and play with dolls and stuff again either. I am saying it is a way of thinking, a way of understanding nothing is impossible to do if you can dream it achieve it. That sort of thinking is what I am trying to talk about.

If we make decisions based on beliefs do we really have control in our decision making? It seems like our beliefs will be the deciding factor in our decisions in life.

reply to post by Ralphy


I think what you are saying is that we have conditioned free will. Our choices are conditioned by our beliefs, and our beliefs are influenced by our upbringing, experiences, society, and so forth.

Liberty encompasses all freedom.

Originally posted by Ralphy
reply to post by ganjoa

 

Doesn't our thinking coordinate with our beliefs?

If we are taught we are worthless from when we were born, then there is a good chance we will believe that as adults. So we would begin to think around the belief we are worthless and that would affect our behavior and decisions.

If humans are taught they are worthless they are also being taught what is worthy and would naturally strive to becoming worthy. It can be a nasty form of mind control; adults teaching they are worth more than others (because of money, social status) while it is more like there are only aspects of an individual that are valuable (to benefit others) and this individual has worthless aspects too, but only looking at the sum one being would be worth more than another.

reply to post by Ralphy


Ralphy, do you mean anything about this biblequote?

Matthew 18

1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

reply to post by etherical waterwave


Are you saying the bible is saying certain things have to happen? predetermined events?

Also...

If things happen for a reason then there must be a general control of all things for everything to come together in this story we call life.

reply to post by Ralphy


I wonder why the offencenses need to come? That it says.

Maybe we can overcome!

Originally posted by Ralphy

When we are young we are exposed to situations and experiences that we can't control. From those situations we learn, whether it be words, rules, talents, etc. We absorb like a sponge accepting just about everything without question because we don't have a mind of reason yet. Eventually we are able to think on our own with what we have been taught. We end up thinking with what we know, so now we decide and make choices based on our rules and beliefs that we learned.

If we make decisions based on beliefs do we really have control in our decision making? It seems like our beliefs will be the deciding factor in our decisions in life.

In the end, we are a gathering and culling of what we have been exposed to. Is this a bad thing? It can be. The goal is unique Identity, and there's no how-to manual that is appropriate for all situations or all users. We each invent the process as we progress from moment to moment.

It benefits each of us to be discriminating when allowing someone or something to get close to us. Like exposure to anything in the molecular realm (toxic waste, radiaion, biological contamination) that is harmful, exposure to harmful information (hate, anger, ignorance, deceit, malevolence) can damage the person you're working to craft and perfect. Your goal is unique identity, and that's all it is. It's up to your own decision whether that Identity will be positive, loving, powerful, and ultimately successful as an eternal existential expression.

Yes, we are affected by everything that touches us in one way or another, and yes, we have control over what we allow to touch us to the degree that it will have that impact on who we ultimately craft of ourselves. Yes and No are choices that we have. We also have the power to ensure that those choices are informed choices.

reply to post by Ralphy


I think life is half fate, and half choice.