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Originally posted by VictorVonDoomWhy would a Confederate soldier risk his life to defend slavery if he didn't own slaves, and would likely never have the wealth to own a slave in his lifetime? Even if I believed in slavery, I wouldn't risk a cannonball in the chest so that someone else could own a slave.
Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
The reasons for secession are not reasons for war - unless you are a tyrant State that desires to keep its tax slaves.
If you aren't arguing over the reasons for war, then why are you addressing this thread?
The point of this thread is to refute the lies in the OP, which I think I have done quite well.
You seem to be concerned with reasons for secession, not reasons for war.
(Marx on English press coverage of the Civil War)
In essence the extenuating arguments read: The war between the North and South is a tariff war. The war is, further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery and in fact turns on Northern lust for sovereignty. Finally, even if justice is on the side of the North , does it not remain a vain endeavour to want to subjugate eight million Anglo-Saxons by force! Would not separation of the South release the North from all connection with Negro slavery and ensure for it, with its twenty million inhabitants and its vast territory, a higher, hitherto scarcely dreamt-of, development? Accordingly, must not the North welcome secession as a happy event, instead of wanting to overrule it by a bloody and futile civil war?
www.marxists.org...
have you seen this site Civilwar.com, it tells you all about the civil war, and it is a lot different than what the WP is saying, it seems as if some one is trying to change history.
Unfortunately what soldiers think they are fighting for or hope they are fighting for or will gain by fighting are usually just fictions..
Financing the U.S. Civil War
George F. Peabody, History of the Great American Fortunes, Gustavus Myers, Mod. Lib. 537, notes that J.P. Morgan's father, Junius S. Morgan, had become a partner of George Peabody in the banking business.
"When the Civil War came on, George Peabody and Company were appointed the financial representatives in England of the U.S. Government.... with this appointment their wealth suddenly began to pile up; where hitherto they had amassed the riches by stages not remarkably rapid, they now added many millions within a very few years."
According to writers of the day, the methods of George Peabody and Company were not only unreasonable but double treason, in that, while in the act of giving inside aid to the enemy, George Peabody & Company were the potentiaries of the U.S. Government and were being well paid to advance its interests. [From the] "Springfield Republic", 1866:
"For all who know anything on the subject know very well that Peabody and his partners gave us no faith and no help in our struggle for national existence. They participated to the fullest in the common English distrust of our cause and our success, and talked and acted for the South rather than for our nation. No individuals contributed so much to flooding our money markets and weakening financial confidence in our nationality than George Peabody & Company, and none made more money by the operation. All the money that Mr. Peabody is giving away so lavishly among our institutions of learning was gained by the speculations of his house in our misfortunes."
Also, New York Times, Oct. 31, 1866: "Reconstruction Carpetbaggers Money Fund". [Quoted in] "Lightning over the Treasury Building", John Elson, Meador Publishing Co., Boston 41, pg. 53,
"The Bank of England with its subsidiary banks in America (under the domination of J.P. Morgan) the Bank of France, and the Reichsbank of Germany, composed an interlocking and cooperative banking system, the main objective of which was the exploitation of the people."
www.modernhistoryproject.org...
Originally posted by schuyler
The author here has built his entire academic career on these sorts of issues. He's obsessed with race, and he's a typical left wing college professor. Not that this nullifies what he is saying, but to claim his views are completely neutral and objective is a serious mistake. He is expressing his political point of view here.
Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
Fortunately, we don't have to rely on revisionist history here. We can use logic and common sense. Consider the following statements:
1. The Civil War was fought over slavery. The North wanted to abolish slavery, the South wanted to keep slavery going.
2. If the South had not left the Union, but kept the institution of slavery, the North would have invaded the southern states anyway.
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.
The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right.
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits
4. If a state wanted to secede from the Union today, the Federal government would not have a problem with it, as long as that state had no intentions of re-instituting slavery.
It seems to me that if you believe statement 1, then you would also have to believe statements 2, 3, and 4. Do you believe those statements are true? If any state tried to suceed the Union again, there would be conflict.
why was slavery abolished in the Southern states (via the Emancipation Proclamation) before slavery was abolished in the North (13th Amendment)?
Why would a Confederate soldier risk his life to defend slavery if he didn't own slaves, and would likely never have the wealth to own a slave in his lifetime?
Originally posted by schuyler
The author here has built his entire academic career on these sorts of issues. He's obsessed with race,
Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
reply to post by Southern Guardian
Then it seems we are in agreement. The Civil War was fought because the southern states tried to secede from the Union.
It can be argued that the reason they wanted to secede was slavery; it can be argued that the reason was tarrifs, economic policies, Congressional representation, etc. or a combination of factors. But what is clear is that the reason the Civil war was fought over a state's right to secede,
Bottom line is, once you are in the clutches of the United States, you will never be free to leave.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Southern Guardian
The fact that each of these States were announcing as part of their charter and compact that Slavery would be legal does not in fact mean it was simply about, primarily about, or even about slavery,
I am sure if you look at these declarations of basic and fundamental rights by these states
Yes the Southern States had slaves, yes they declared that openly, yes they wanted to make sure it was implicitly an integral part of the state, and gauranteed in perpituity.
You are focused on the EMOTIONAL and MORAL aspects of slavery, not the BUSINESS aspects of slavery as a legally protected thing.