The Occurrence of Debt, or what I would do with $7 Trillion - MASSIVE Read

Good info and thought experiment, thanks for the post! It would be great if the Gov was just using the Federal Reserve to get the money it needs for now, and then it would create its own debt free monetary system and basically default on the money owed back to the Fed Res. In short, replace it with a debt free system and get off the debt train. I wonder what the chances are of that happening. It has happened before, with Lincoln, so it could happen again. I wonder what the fall out of that would be?

Good info and thought experiment, thanks for the post! It would be great if the Gov was just using the Federal Reserve to get the money it needs for now, and then it would create its own debt free monetary system and basically default on the money owed back to the Fed Res. In short, replace it with a debt free system and get off the debt train. I wonder what the chances are of that happening. It has happened before, with Lincoln, so it could happen again. I wonder what the fall out of that would be?

This is some truly eye-opening stuff, and a way to have a real-world figure of HOW MUCH money that really is. Pisses me of...

reply to post by VonDoomen


wow, star and flag not only for the effort but for the delivery.

they really have us over a barrel. in order to see it really clear. lets make a game of it with small numbers...

first turn,
the bank drops 100 bucks into the US economy, at interest...
we owe 110 dollars that we have to pay to get to turn 2
we spend every dollar in the land and come up short 10 bucks...
so the Johnsons end up selling their farm to the only players left with cash... the bank, and they take the farm and the cash too. Now the johnsons are renters and employees instead of self sustaining land owners.

ok books are balanced on to turn 2
nuther 100 bucks, at interest...
and the only way out is to turn another instance of Real Estate into bankers property. This time its the Andersons place... this has been going on for the same 100 years that the family farms have been vanishing. HRRMMM.

meanwhile we all moved into the cities to get jobs

a job means that you have no access to resources and so are willing to enter another persons service in order to get a reduced portion of HIS access to resources... at HIS discretion... IS THAT FREEDOM?

IS THAT THE AMERICAN DREAM?


it is easy to see that if the game is played until the end, the bank will have everything of value in the entire system.

It's not even that much of a stretch to call it a coup de tat.

our founding fathers escaped from the forces of social stratification and economic restriction

those same forces never stopped waging war against us.

And we were slowly sold out from the inside. Woodrow wilsons quote is worth it... (BAH i thought i had a link but look it up)

..."I am a most unhappy man, I have unwittingly ruined my country..."

thats a man who was president telling the truth.

and the really scary one is the....

Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.

so thats who were up against, and they have made serious inroads in the attempt to get their serfs and peasants back.

reply to post by uwascallywabbit


but on a less disturbing note, if were NOT gonna be serfs and peasants? what are we gonna do?

What SHOULD we do with 7 trillion dollars?

i dont feel like doing heavy math or digging up too many links because its 330 am here and im sipping Kraftig.

but i think that we should have chosen to spend that cash on the kind of infrastructure required to move our species forward into the future... global infrastructure. electric bullet trains that run everywhere. sponsored wi fi. sponsored university, sponsered medicine. tide powered coastal desalination stations. space based solar farms beaming "free" power back to earth with those same laser beams that they use to recharge NWOdrones. a space elevator moored to a dedicated pacific island. the start of the free use of space and its resources. the end of the past.

Robert Anton Wilson and his futurist friends have been reminding us since the 1970's that there are thousands of reasons to move heavy industry into the vaccuum of space.

this reserves habitat for the biological economies that it is pre disposed toward, and makes use of vaccuum to improve and contain the chemical economies of industry.

also gravity is variable in space, and that can be of interest to certain manufacturers.

7 trillion may not take us all the way to the space elevator and the solar panel farms... but it could take us to the clean water, and the trains, and the universities, and the hospitals, and thats the first step. a global humanity has to feel itself before it will act as one

but seriously we will step off the earth or we will die here. Sooner the better. space has an infinite resource economy, the minerals available in the asteroid belt alone are worth exploitation, while Saturns rings contain pre stratisfied minerals, how nice, its like they came in a wrapper. or we could keep Frakking and strip mining and building nuke plants and off shore oil wells.

if Humanity has the chance, it will walk into the future with its head held high, with dignity and harmony and wonder.

or we can fall victim to a few common pratfalls and spend eternity worshipping our masters, whatever shape they come in this time.

Also consider that in the OP, the numbers flex a little, 8 trillion 9 trillion 12 trillion.

but thats all within about 2 decades...

what kind of change could we see if we freed our economy from these vampires over a generation? or two?

here comes the future. with the way that science is moving now (info doubles faster squared) the only reason not to go ahead and build the future is that someone will have to pay to build the new stuff, no matter how cool it is, it could be an immortality machine but if it costs money to build and were all broke guess what?

Hey wasnt there a lot of talk in the USA in the early 20th century about "the world of tomorrow" and "cities of the future" guess what we got instead?

a central bank

guess what they did with all of our stolen money?

they spent it rigging our system to their advantage. Now our system is their system.

we could have had flying cars (moller.com) we could have had free energy from a number of suppossed sources, information is doubling faster all the time and its been kicking out novelty at an exponential rate.

novelty has the potential to upset the order, this is because what is novel did not exist and so is not accounted for in the current power system.

what im saying is its not just the money. because they want us to be serfs again, they are trying to slow down the future.

12 trillion in 23 years. 24 trillion in 46 years. 36 trillion in 69 years. in the life of a man we could complete the transformation of our planet that was begun in the twentieth century.

and these numbers are just US

what could we do as EARTHLINGS?

personally, i wanna see civilian spacecraft. and i wouldnt mind a light saber.

Now try and make me understand this

Why don't the governments take over the banks make one state owned bank, that has no interest and just say to hell with the central bank. Screw all the money we owe them, we all realise they've been sticking a economic dick up all our asses for years

Collapse the currency and start from fresh? I don't know there has to be a way out but it has to be a bold move and a hard one with someone who can make everybody understand and keep control of the situation.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Sorry, I must have done a miscalculation. It deff doesnt cost 600k to build 1 habitat for humanity home.
Thanks for pointing it out.

reply to post by Sparta


Because certain people make to much profit through this system to give it up. Dont forget, the bankers have enough money to prop up their own candidates into political office.

How about this,as a private citizen I am responsable for my debt.So as a private organization the FED owes this massive debt.I and the entire US citizenry are not liable for a private company.The FED will have to go bankrupt and the government will have to nationalize them to do that.

reply to post by uwascallywabbit


I agree.

My main concern or thoughts for life revolve around our species becoming a space-faring civilization.

We live on a finite planet. We cant continue to harvest resources from our planet forever. Our species, just like any other intelligence in the universe will eventually be confronted with the need to become space faring or to die. I like the call it the great bottleneck. I also like to hope that becoming a space faring civilization requires the species to become mature( a species that is too warlike would destroy itself before becoming gods of space). Id rather our species die than export our current way of life to the rest of the universe.

But yes, our future, our destiny lies in space. It lies within the dream. For that is the whole point of life. To make life indistinguishable from the dream world through technology.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


how can the FED ( i assume you mean the FED reserve?) go broke when they are the ones who print the money.

Here is something interesting on wikipedia...

the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation, numerous privately owned U.S. member banks and various advisory councils.[13][14][15] The FOMC is the committee responsible for setting monetary policy and consists of all seven members of the Board of Governors and the twelve regional bank presidents, though only five bank presidents vote at any given time.

wikipedia...

So there are 19 members on the FOMC and only 5 vote at a time? kinda strange...

reply to post by fnpmitchreturns


Just remember, concentration of power is bad
dilution of power is good.

power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

Good find.
If I remember the NY FED is the main branch.. ahh the good ol Empire state, the York of new, New York.

"York is a walled city, situated at the confluence of the Rivers Ouse and Foss in North Yorkshire, England.
The city was founded by the Romans in 71 AD, under the name of Eboracum. It became in turn the capital of the Roman province of Britannia Inferior, and of the kingdoms of Northumbria and Jorvik. In the Middle Ages, York grew as a major trading centre and became the capital of the northern ecclesiastical province of the Church of England, a role it has retained.[4]

i love this thread, so much meat in one place...

one of the "pro-FED" folk who chimed in early laid this on us...

-------------------------------
The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.

...Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."
-----------------------------------------------

OK in all seriousness, if you have a "public purpose" (meaning youre gonna effect us all) but you have "private aspects"... isnt that a pretty good take on a conspiracy by definition? or at least close?

and what part of our democratic republic gov has "private aspects"? thats news to me? sure theres things like classified information for military reasons, but that is not properly described as private...

and "independent within the government" is a nicety for "above the law" isnt it? what does a government do? it governs... what does it mean to be independent within the government?

it means that the fed is ungoverned by us, but wears our colors anyway as a disguise.

wait a minute, could that be defined as treason?

so we have a ungovernable force with private aspects that is in charge of our economy

WE GOT GANKED. if you cant see it, you're not looking.

reply to post by VonDoomen


thanks for the space high five, i dont wanna derail your fine thread with too much "off topic" stuff...

but your subtitle inspires the imagination..

see usually these boards and others like them are full of dark side doom and gloom stories, how we are being dragged into George Orwells future, or which politicians are dirty (all of them LOL) or what this weeks armageddon is likely to be...

it gets old, and there are healthier takes on these negative topics.

i could scream about the FED till im blue, but it would be better to inspire others with what we could accomplish with our economic freedom.

the choice is sort of either or..

A- we slip backwards, the masses become ignorant peasants controlled through the high tech that only our masters can afford to use develop and understand. they own everything and we merely work for them and put up with the conditions they deem appropriate

B- we the people regain our economic power, and use it to build the future from the later and latest batches of novelty to arrive via the doubling of information. by remaining productive and innovative, the future is OURS, as long as we can afford to build it... meaning as long as our social structures are geared toward mass improvement and not minority enrichment via massive poverty

heres a few things i found that we could a spend a few bucks on RIGHT NOW to improve life on earth...

If we had a few bucks i mean, but after bailouts, foreign wars, S&L scandals, and the Not-So-Great-Depression that weve been in for years.... brother can you spare a dime?

lets get rid of cancer

cyberknife
www.youtube.com...

THC cancer research (this is not hippie drug talk, actually the fact that THC fights cancer seems to be a secret)
www.sciencedaily.com...


lets get rid of malaria
www.youtube.com...


lets fly around like the jetsons
skycar
www.moller.com...
who doesnt want one of these babies?

now when it comes to free energy, I WANT TO BELIEVE (thanks Fox) but i know that many dont feel this way. laws of thermo dynamics, perpetual motion, many common objections... so rather than post "free" energy devices that might work if developed (7 trillion is a lot of R&D)... consider this instead

tide power. real right now. just gotta build it. or more of it.
en.wikipedia.org...

and the stirling engine has been around for years! but are we using huge ones to make cheap power?
en.wikipedia.org...
park the cold side underground in water, put a solar collection lens on the hot side, spin a generator...
we could build these now, all we have to do is ALLOCATE

immortality anyone? (and just by coincidence he mentions malaria also!)
www.youtube.com...

3D printing
www.youtube.com...

that video is simple, he made a wrench... but this SAME tech is now being used to print out cells, and pharms.
this is the beginning of the end of old fashioned manufacturing scarcity... but the same bad guys that hijacked our economy are unwilling to endorse ABUNDANCE

ABUNDANCE is what progress is for this is very plain. the reason to get better at fishing is to get more fish, now you fish less, and have more time to hang out.

to think that we have been to the year 2000, and our masters are trying to tell us that we have LESS FISH would be funny if it werent so horrible.

the future is ours, to let old fashioned dictators try to contain it so that they can play the ME BIG MAN game is really really primative

reply to post by uwascallywabbit


Thanks for contributing! There are so many positive venues we could explore and put our resources towards.

It is a very sad state of affairs today. Many people are totally willing to sell out our future for their own present prosperity.

We live on a finite planet with finite resources. We have basically one shot to become a space faring civilization, and i believe that for the most part, we are entirely ignoring that subject.

We have the intelligence. We have the resources. We have the bold ideas.

But we lack a proper environment to fully pursue these ideas as they can affect the bottom line of some VERY rich and powerful people.

Great thread man
I have a better understanding of our economics now from reading it. This thread obviously shows how much you care about whats going on with todays money.
A hard currency would be best in my opinion and what you were talking about with lincoln an money thats interest free, would like to see that again!
I'll prolly go over the thread again later to get even more insight and see whats up. again, thanks for the information, one has to pay to figure all this out, you did people a great service breaking this down for us laymen to understand.

reply to post by Arnie123


thank you for the support! I think i put too much info into the post because it seems most people didnt care about this thread.