Missile launcher found in Escondido Dumpster

Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

Unless the last person to sign it out was bogus.....

I already stated the only scenario in which this could have possibly left a military installation. When the item is being handled personally, it is under severe scrutiny if not only for the reason that if one were to lose it, they would pay dearly.

The point is, it is signed out from it's resting location (either an AHA or Ammo Depot) and is brought directly to a range to be used. The empty carrying tube must then be returned to the person who originally signed it out. If it is not, questions will be asked, and action will be taken promptly. This is not like some minor 5.56 NATO rounds coming up short, this is an item that is signed out a few, if not one, at a time.

sbctinfantry, how long would something like this have been in production for? I see from the link above that the Army "has since stopped purchases of the base AT4 anti-tank system in favor of the newer AT4-CS (Confined Space) implement." If these are older, is it possible some have made their way into private hands, gun show sales, etc.? And is there any chance at all of a non-military person getting ahold of rounds for something like this? Other than the NTC you mentioned, what about Guard units, are these available or part of Guard armories?

Edit: alright should have read everything before posting! So the tube is useless after firing it's round. What about used tubes making their way to a collectors market?

For all we know, that dumpster was a drop point, and someone stumbled across it before the pick up could be made.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

Unless the last person to sign it out was bogus.....

I already stated the only scenario in which this could have possibly left a military installation. When the item is being handled personally, it is under severe scrutiny if not only for the reason that if one were to lose it, they would pay dearly.

The point is, it is signed out from it's resting location (either an AHA or Ammo Depot) and is brought directly to a range to be used. The empty carrying tube must then be returned to the person who originally signed it out. If it is not, questions will be asked, and action will be taken promptly. This is not like some minor 5.56 NATO rounds coming up short, this is an item that is signed out a few, if not one, at a time.

I still don't see it beyond the realm of possibility for it to have been signed out by someone with bogus credentials. Especially if it were something in which was somehow related to a bogus missle launch off the coast of California that was orchestrated from the inside.

Hey, it could happen.

"Fire and forget". I think the soldier/marine that fired this weapon probably wanted a souvenir to show the kids but had second thoughts about it. He would of fired it in a training installation, so any loud bang would have been attributed to basic training. As to how he managed to sneak the tube out - security must really be a piece of # in the US aye?

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Furthermore, this device would not produce the effects seen by the alleged missle launch.

That might depend on what type of projectile was loaded into this particular AT4.
If it was discharged out at sea & it has a 1-plus mile range and wasn't deployed to strike a particular target, but just to make a benign show to freak some Americans out......., eh, lots of ifs I suppose, but it could make good conspiracy fodder.

Originally posted by stupid girl

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by DigitalSea

 

There should of been a serial number on it, at least at one time.

The projectile had already been fired from the AT4.

edit on 9/1/11 by MikeboydUS because: .

How did they know/how could they tell where it had been fired from?

I'm not familiar with these, so I don't know the particulars about this type of weapon & if it is tactical specific (like, can only be fired from certain machinery, etc.)

LMAOffffff.....HA HA HA HA, omagah I am peeing my pants right now after I just read what I posted, "How did they know/how could they tell where it had been fired from?"
Holy sh*t that is FU-NNY.

You were saying that the projectile had already been spent/fired from the AT4 itself and I was thinking you meant some sort of tank or something.

I think my nitey-nite tea is starting to work and I will now take my pregnant tired self to bed.

Gah, what a stupid girl.

I guess I'll start from the beginning.

1) AT-4 is sent to military base, and is promptly confined to the Corp Ammo Section's Storage Facility.

2) A brigade makes a request to the Corp, and paperwork including serial number is issued and kept by both parties.

3) The weapon is promptly confined to the BDE Ammo Section's Storage Facility.

4) A battalion makes a request to the brigade, and paperwork including serial number is issued and kept by both parties.

5) The weapon is promptly confined to the BN Ammo Section's Storage Facility.

6) The company signs for a range that can accomodate firing on the weapon.

7) The Company XO (Executive Officer) issues a request for the weapon, and arranges transportation in tandem with the Ammo section. There is a clear paper trail to explain this request.

8) The Ammo Section delivers the weapon to the range, and paperwork signing it over including serial numbers is issued and kept by both parties.

9) Before the range can be closed and inspected by Range Control, all ammunition must be removed.

10) The XO arranges for the Ammo Section to pick up spent munitions and paperwork is kept by both parties including serial numbers.

11) The spent munitions are taken back to the BN Ammo Depot and sorted, catalogued, and sent off to either be destroyed or reconstituted.

So, during this process, any individual that can be responsible for stealing this munition will be promptly caught. The only vulnerable place is the AHA or Ammo Handling Area. This is more like a first response ammo dump, where all units will converge to recieve emergency ammo in the event of an outside threat or attack. It is guarded by armed military personnel 24/7 under the supervision of an NCO, and any munitions dissapearing would not be in the best interest of those guards, to say the least.

I hope that clears things up for good.

Sounds like nobody has been in the service.. Here's how it works:

The company has to go to the range to qualify on weapons about once a year, the company commander issues the order to assemble at the range, the First Sargent orders the supply officer to arrange for the weapons to be picked up at the ammo depot and transported to the range, a PFC checks out a 2 1/2 ton truck from the motor pool and drives it and the supply Sargent to the ammo depot, the Sargent signs for the weapons and they load up and drive to the range, the weapons are then used, the Sargent details some privates to police up the spent used launchers and load them in to the truck, since they are non re-loadable and destined for destruction the First Sargent tells the supply Sargent to save a couple for training purposes, the privates load them in to the company supply Conex, where they sit for years forgotten...when the company commander wants to hold a inspection the First Sargent orders the Platoon Sargent to get everything ready for the "Dog and Pony Show" as we called them, a few privates are assigned to clean out the supply Conex and come across the spent launchers.. where they take one home as a souvenir instead of throwing them away, a few years later the private is out of the service and moving and doesn't want it any more..so poof in the trash can.. THE END

Remember people it was a EMPTY LAUNCHER not a LIVE ROUND..!!!

reply to post by sbctinfantry


I think we are into apples and oranges here..

What you describe is the audit trail for a LIVE.. AT-4.. It's signed out by ser # and once expended the tube with the ser# must be returned to the location it was signed out of to verify that it has been expended..

Once the AT 4 is certified expended it is either processed for destruction, possibly turned into training versions, or demilled (if necessary) and sold most likely through DRMO..

This is how you can buy them at gun shows and online from various auction sites.. So in this case it would most likely have been one of those expended tubes, and not a stolen Live AT-4, that would have had plenty of folks scrambling...

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

I think we are into apples and oranges here..

What you describe is the audit trail for a LIVE.. AT-4.. It's signed out by ser # and once expended the tube with the ser# must be returned to the location it was signed out of to verify that it has been expended..

Once the AT 4 is certified expended it is either processed for destruction or demilled (if necessary) and sold most likely through DRMO..


This is how you can buy them at gun shows and online from various auction sites.. So in this case it would most likely have been one of those expended tubes, and not a stolen Live AT-4, that would have had plenty of folks scrambling...

Agreed....We once had a Night vision Scope get misplaced and the whole company had to stay in the field until we found it..

reply to post by GammaRayBurst


that brings back nightmares... though in my unit's case, it was a missing M16 on a field exercise. :shk:

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
reply to post by GammaRayBurst

 

that brings back nightmares... though in my unit's case, it was a missing M16 on a field exercise. :shk:

I hear that... C Troop 3/5 Air Cav

Originally posted by GammaRayBurst
Sounds like nobody has been in the service.. Here's how it works:

The company has to go to the range to qualify on weapons about once a year, the company commander issues the order to assemble at the range, the First Sargent orders the supply officer to arrange for the weapons to be picked up at the ammo depot and transported to the range, a PFC checks out a 2 1/2 ton truck from the motor pool and drives it and the supply Sargent to the ammo depot, the Sargent signs for the weapons and they load up and drive to the range, the weapons are then used, the Sargent details some privates to police up the spent used launchers and load them in to the truck, since they are non re-loadable and destined for destruction the First Sargent tells the supply Sargent to save a couple for training purposes, the privates load them in to the company supply Conex, where they sit for years forgotten...when the company commander wants to hold a inspection the First Sargent orders the Platoon Sargent to get everything ready for the "Dog and Pony Show" as we called them, a few privates are assigned to clean out the supply Conex and come across the spent launchers.. where they take one home as a souvenir instead of throwing them away, a few years later the private is out of the service and moving and doesn't want it any more..so poof in the trash can.. THE END

Remember people it was a EMPTY LAUNCHER not a LIVE ROUND..!!!

Sorry, you may have dreamt you were in the military, but it's a 1SG's job to maintain personnel not equipment. That is the XO's job. The rest you just copied from my post and added flavor that wasn't true about connex's. Ammunition is not legally storable in a connex.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by GammaRayBurst
Sounds like nobody has been in the service.. Here's how it works:

The company has to go to the range to qualify on weapons about once a year, the company commander issues the order to assemble at the range, the First Sargent orders the supply officer to arrange for the weapons to be picked up at the ammo depot and transported to the range, a PFC checks out a 2 1/2 ton truck from the motor pool and drives it and the supply Sargent to the ammo depot, the Sargent signs for the weapons and they load up and drive to the range, the weapons are then used, the Sargent details some privates to police up the spent used launchers and load them in to the truck, since they are non re-loadable and destined for destruction the First Sargent tells the supply Sargent to save a couple for training purposes, the privates load them in to the company supply Conex, where they sit for years forgotten...when the company commander wants to hold a inspection the First Sargent orders the Platoon Sargent to get everything ready for the "Dog and Pony Show" as we called them, a few privates are assigned to clean out the supply Conex and come across the spent launchers.. where they take one home as a souvenir instead of throwing them away, a few years later the private is out of the service and moving and doesn't want it any more..so poof in the trash can.. THE END

Remember people it was a EMPTY LAUNCHER not a LIVE ROUND..!!!

Sorry, you may have dreamt you were in the military, but it's a 1SG's job to maintain personnel not equipment. That is the XO's job. The rest you just copied from my post and added flavor that wasn't true about connex's. Ammunition is not legally storable in a connex.

That must have been a awesome dream..I could have sworn I was a Helicopter Crew Chief in a Air Cav unit stationed at Fort Lewis Washington.. Thanks for clearing that up... Now I'll sleep better.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


Just one question- Do you also make the 'cherry' get you 50 meters of shoreline and some dehydrated water?

Originally posted by GammaRayBurst
That must have been a awesome dream..I could have sworn I was a Helicopter Crew Chief in a Air Cav unit stationed at Fort Lewis Washington.. Thanks for clearing that up... Now I'll sleep better.

What was your section? I was also stationed at Ft. Lewis. Please send me a PM with where you were located in relation to the PX / Airfield / I-5? What type of bird were you in charge of? If I have any further doubts, I'll ask my neighbor across the street who's head of the local Legion and a former pilot.

Originally posted by js331975
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

Just one question- Do you also make the 'cherry' get you 50 meters of shoreline and some dehydrated water?

No, that might be a Marine or Navy classic. We usually send them for a box of grid squares, genade pins, flux capacitors, and headlight fluid.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


It does not say if its loaded or not. I know several people who have empty launchers that you can buy for pennies just to have. So probably some guy just threw and empty launcher out.

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by js331975
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

Just one question- Do you also make the 'cherry' get you 50 meters of shoreline and some dehydrated water?

No, that might be a Marine or Navy classic. We usually send them for a box of grid squares, genade pins, flux capacitors, and headlight fluid.

100 yards of flight line and a hover bearing..LOL

Originally posted by raceway40
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

It does not say if its loaded or not. I know several people who have empty launchers that you can buy for pennies just to have. So probably some guy just threw and empty launcher out.

Most expended launching tubes are sent back to the Ammo Depot, and outfitted to become practice tools. They can also be refitted to fire M9 rounds, which are used to practice sighting and firing mechanics. Possession of one is a felony outside intended/allowed use.