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We do not have as many freedoms anymore; Its sad. I got thrown out of a mall for videotaping.

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posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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I have a hobby of videotaping. I had an idea for a story on my you tube channel about a local mall of mine. How can I show the mall if I don't film it? I am not a news person or trying to make money off of it. I was not inside the businesses just in the halls of the mall.
I was not bothering anyone just commenting on some ideas for the mall and what businesses used to be there. It was almost like an alex jones moment where they tell you to leave and you can't film. They had 2 secruity men telling me I could not film so I left. I was trying to show the effects of the recession on my area.




posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Ironic how they can videotape us but we can't videotape them. I think it is really an extreme overreaction on the mall's part. If I were a news person I would call and get permission but I am not so I did not even think about it.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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OP, I understand your sentiment. The same thing happened to me 20+ years ago while filming some footage for a high school video yearbook. However, a mall is private property and, as such, you have no freedom to videotape there. You must go through the proper permission seeking process and obtain permission. It sucks, but your rights were not violated and you were denied no freedom. Might I suggest that next time you either obtain permission or, alternatively, film things discretely without the commentary.




posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Actually this isn't anything new. While malls and stores appear to be public places they are still considered private property. And while people take pictures and video all the time in stores and malls they are well within their rights to ask you to stop. People seem to take this for granted now because everyone has video and digital cameras on their cellphones.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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What were you filming when they told you to stop?

I ask bc if some random person was videotaping me or kids walking around the mall I'd probably report you too, there's a lot of weirdos out there and I get very overprotective when there's strangers with video cameras and my kiddies are involved because I don't want there pics on the internet.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aggie Man
OP, I understand your sentiment. The same thing happened to me 20+ years ago while filming some footage for a high school video yearbook. However, a mall is private property and, as such, you have no freedom to videotape there. You must go through the proper permission seeking process and obtain permission. It sucks, but your rights were not violated and you were denied no freedom. Might I suggest that next time you either obtain permission or, alternatively, film things discretely without the commentary.



this is a legal issue of course, but the area outside of the shops could be considered public/private property, so as long as you are not damaging property or invading someone else's space, I don't see why someone would necessarily have a problem with that. Sure they have their legal right to restrict video taping, but if they didn't think you were doing anything wrong, why would even a security guard waste time telling someone to stop video taping? Unless of course they were video taping a diamond store or a clothing store were many teenagers steal from.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, where's protection for my right to not be videotaped? Now I know there's no specific enumerated right to not be videotaped (that I know of), but it sort of falls into a right to privacy, I think. I should have the right to venture forth in a (semi) public setting without having to worry about a YouTube video showing up if I need to unobtrusively address an itch, or something.

A mall isn't really "public". They can set their own rules (no skateboards, shoes and shirts required, etc.) to protect their customers, as long as the rules apply in a non-discriminatory manner across the board.

One person's rights tend to end where another's are encroached upon. Maybe to protect their revenue, they need to keep their customers from being made to feel uncomfortable by being video taped.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


Great, I wrote a big thing that looked smart and all and you come in here and state all of the stuff I was going to and in a much more efficient way! OP, thread is over after Aggie's remarks, spot on.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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This is nothing new. Many malls have rules about videoing and taking pictures on their property without permission from management. It is private property. They can make whatever rules they want. Been this way in many malls since I was a mall rat


I worked for an National Real Estate company that built/managed malls a number of years ago.....and Im very aware of these rules.
edit on January 6th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


No I really feel that I have the right to film a basically abandoned mall. I believe they were in the wrong. I tried to aviod videotaping people as much as possible. The footage was not too great anyways because I was trying to aviod filming people I did get some people on tape but they could hear the commentary I made and people agreed wit me in general. So basically this means that if a person went to the Great Mall on vaction they could not take video or pictures of being there. If this really is illegal then that means everytime my family went on vacation we could have faced the same issue.
If you are talking about something specfically then I don't see why you can't go there and film it.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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I know this may be a little of topic but speaking of not being able to do anything any more, i was watching the evening new and there was a story about a woman who was driving and had an accident. The woman had drove off of a small bridge and into the water where she had tried to escape, climbing out threw the sun roof the poor woman probably feared for her life, anywho the woman was rescued but she got charged, CHARGED FOR CARELESS DRIVING!!! you know theres something wrong when you get into an accident fly into the water and get charged for it. crazyyyy



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 




The security guys made that up. A public place. You can film. What you can't do is to block aisles or that kind of thing. Next time have a backup team with cam and good audio discreetly placed a few yards away to be able to prove it. I mean if it's worth it to you.

You know the "knee jerk" reaction by anyone with a little power and authority is to say "no you can't do that". They react this way because they feel like they have to do something and they don't know what to do so they act stupid.

They might have said, "please be careful not to obstruct the aisle". The owners of the mall would do likewise because they, too, would not know how else to react. People are very predictable and the sooner we all learn that the sooner we can avoid these little inconveniences and yet do what we want to do.

Next time be stealthy.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by Aggie Man
OP, I understand your sentiment. The same thing happened to me 20+ years ago while filming some footage for a high school video yearbook. However, a mall is private property and, as such, you have no freedom to videotape there. You must go through the proper permission seeking process and obtain permission. It sucks, but your rights were not violated and you were denied no freedom. Might I suggest that next time you either obtain permission or, alternatively, film things discretely without the commentary.



this is a legal issue of course, but the area outside of the shops could be considered public/private property, so as long as you are not damaging property or invading someone else's space, I don't see why someone would necessarily have a problem with that. Sure they have their legal right to restrict video taping, but if they didn't think you were doing anything wrong, why would even a security guard waste time telling someone to stop video taping? Unless of course they were video taping a diamond store or a clothing store were many teenagers steal from.



you are very wrong, malls are 100% private property they are owned and ran by private companys , they rent out space to other private companys, even if the mall was completley empty it is still private property and they can have any rules they want .



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
If this really is illegal then that means everytime my family went on vacation we could have faced the same issue.


It is not illegal to film/photograph on private property. The issue is that it is private property and the owners of the property can set rules as to what is and is not allowed. Now, your intentions may have been innocent, but the security guards are not mind-readers nor should they trust someone's innocent explanation for filming. All security can do is follow the guidelines they are asked to enforce. If they don't then they could find themselves standing in the unemployment line. On the bright side, I'm sure they will let you shop there and gladly liberate you of your hard earned cash.
edit on 6-1-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by Gixxer
 


so before anyone goes on vacation they need to call all the places they intend to visit and take pictures/videotape to get permission?



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


I actually looked on the sign at the doors before going and there was no posted signs. They should put signs up.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by dreamseeker
 


OP, what you feel you should be able to do and what is legal are two different things. Malls are private property and like it or not, if you are on that property you must abide by their rules. If filming is not allowed, or if you did not obtain permission, they have every right to throw you off. This is not loss of Freedom. Don't confuse the two or you will have cloudy vision going forward...



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Malls can be considered "public" in some aspects. The laws are not so clearcut as you guys are assuming. For example, I can't expose myself in a mall, because it is "public." When city plans are laid out and permits given for construction, malls and other large gathering places are subject to different laws than a private residence or office. A mall (or any other licensed business) cannot refuse you basic civil rights, like discriminating based on race, age, or creed. Fire Codes and Emergency Planning apply to areas of "public access," like malls. The rules are not so clear cut about what is "private" and what is "public."

So, this is indeed a public place, even though it is private property.

On another note, the security guards at malls are not the cream of the crop. Were they following orders, or were they just over-asserting their authority? Would they have challenged a news crew? Or were they just bullying an individual? Do the actual "owners" or at least the leasing company have this "no filming" as a rule, or were the security guards just making stuff up on the fly?

The OP should have asked them what ordinance or specific mall policy was being violated, and advise the security guards to alert the proper authorities if he was trespassing or violating a law. Otherwise, the security guards should leave him alone.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


No it is still a loss of freedom. I really believe this is more an ill of society that they would not allow me to pursue my hobby. I was not impeding business at all. I really want the people who say I should not be allowed to film at a mall to answer the question of what about when people are on vaction they film and take pictures should they not be allowed?



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by trailertrash
 



Although this is your opinion, it is misleading to say the guards are wrong and that the OP can film there. He cannot without permission from the owners of the mall, it is private property.

If I came to your house and walked up your drive with a camera while you were trying to sell your house and the commentary I was using was along the lines of " the owner of this home has not been able to sell this place and I can see why, just look at ........" Would you feel I may be violating your rights as the owner of the property?




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