Sarcasm, Ridicule, Obfuscation, and Ad Hominems on Threads

Originally posted by alien
Any Alert that goes 'unactioned' should be responded to via u2u by Staff.

This is good to know.

If that were to actually happen, it would be most helpful.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by alien
Any Alert that goes 'unactioned' should be responded to via u2u by Staff.

This is good to know.

If that were to actually happen, it would be most helpful.

In general, if you think something hasn't been dealt with, contact a supermoderator (our names are listed under the moderators).

Please realize that some folks are very good at poking "just enough" so that it's not quite actionable. But if you feel it's out of line, please DO alert us to it anyway. You may not see actions such as 'remove points/warn/send message to member saying "knock it off"' and so forth. Often we will just post a message saying "knock it off, guys."

We can't be everywhere, reading all the messages, and we do rely on members to help us when things are getting out of line.

Originally posted by alien
The Terms and Conditions

15g.) Political Baiting: You will not engage in politically-charged rhetoric, politically-inspired name-calling, and related right-versus-left political bickering while Posting in any topical forum or discussion thread on the Websites. You will not alter political candidate names or party affiliations in order to insult or deride the opposition.

In my opinion, a similar situation to political baiting is a scenario where a member has posted a positive remark and appreciation for the work, or writings, or some other output from a public figure, and a member responds to this by making fun of the public figure or engaging in name-calling of this figure.

In my opinion, this is ridiculing the poster by proxy.

Stating that you disagree with the positive assessment or that you do not share the appreciation can be done in a respectful manner.

But I have the impression that people think that as long as they're writing about a public figure they can ridicule all they want - regardless of the context surrounding the ridicule. Because they're not attacking the poster per se they think this is perfectly acceptable.

To me, this is not in the spirit of common courtesy.

reply to post by Byrd


As I stated earlier in the thread, I have alerted posts four times and once a mod took action.

I have never received a u-2-u stating why action was not taken.

That's what I was talking about - how nice it would be to get a response to an alert.

That "Alert" button should be in a different place.
I hit it one time by mistake when my hand slipped as I reached for the "Flag" button.

I never use it and prefer to ignore rather than report.

Originally posted by OhZone
I never use it and prefer to ignore rather than report.

Right now that sounds like a super idea.

Perhaps that will become easier for me as time goes by.

ATS Is What We Make it

Some threads relevant to the topic:

Ad Hominem Attacks And You

Mods Not Gods

As mods, we do our best to enforce the T&C as diligently and impartially as we can, but we are only human and cannot possibly do it all alone.

There is plenty wrong with ATS, and if you focus on that, everything starts to look wrong. Gaze long into the abyss and, as Nietzsche so famously observed, it gazes also into you -- and draws you into it.

Likewise, if you focus on what is right with ATS, what is wrong will diminish in importance and lose power over you. That doesn't mean we should ignore what's wrong, just that it's necessary to maintain perspective. Or, to put it another way...

If you see evil everywhere you turn, you're standing in the wrong place.

If most ATSers decide to post as if our forums are no better than an online restroom wall, then that's what ATS will be. Likewise, if most ATSers decide to post intelligent, well-informed commentary, then that's what ATS will be.

In reality, ATS is a mixture of both and much more, all of it an aggregation of thought from our large, diverse, worldwide community. There's something here for everyone, good, bad or indifferent.

But getting back to the crux of the topic, and to reiterate what others have already said, the best way to handle discourteous posts is to:

1. Avoid responding in kind or taking the bait and going off-topic.

2. ALERT them and bring them to our attention.

3. Be patient.

Contrary to an apparently widespread misconception, the ALERT button is not capable of offering instant solutions to problems. Problems need to be solved by real people who have a lot of things to deal with, and it takes time.

But over time, rudeness and disrespect tend to lead away from our community, while courtesy and patience make it stronger. That has much less to do with what mods do than what our membership does as a whole.

Opinions naturally vary, but as far as I'm concerned, what I get from ATS is more than well worth the effort, and that's something I want to be true for everyone.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by OhZone
I never use it and prefer to ignore rather than report.

Right now that sounds like a super idea.

Perhaps that will become easier for me as time goes by.

IMO that's a bad idea to just ignore those sorts of issues. The staff can't prevent this sort of T&C breaking behaviour without being advised about it.

Considering the ratio of mods to posters is probably 1 to 10 (just an estimate), it's important for us members to keep them up do date about what's happening.

Just my two cents. I'd rather see it actioned then watch a particular member continue the damaging behaviour.

~Keeper

reply to post by Mary Rose


I see this one abused all the time. Hell I do it all the time myself, but I generally bash on the republicants and demorats equally

reply to post by TKDRL


What about what I said in the post? My post wasn't about Democrats and Republicans.

reply to post by Mary Rose

Not sure what happened there, I tried to edit to add a paragraph, but it didn't go through. I have a problem of premature sending sometimes lol.

I see that all the time, like someone posts a good speech by AJ or Glenn Beck etc, and instead of adressing what they said in the speech, they attack the person. Oh he is a nutbag, or he is a shill etc, even though the substance of the speech is never even addressed. There is a few people that pop up from time to time in posts, that just the mere mention of the name will come hundreds of crys of HOAXER etc. Even a broken clock is right two times a day, I try not to disreguard some info just because it comes from a certain person. Then again I like to do research myself when something piques my interest.

Here is one that just popped up that illustrates the problem pretty well.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by TKDRL
Here is one that just popped up that illustrates the problem pretty well.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The thread made me laugh out loud.

But if I had started it, I wouldn't have thought it was funny.

I really do think people could be more considerate of the feelings of others.

Alert this is only my view.

ATS is all about what you believe as truth, light and justice being shattered to dust.

Don't expect calling someone a fool and then proving it will be well received.

No one's view should be totally disrespected.

If you want to debate an “equal”, talk to yourself (you have no equal) and hopefully it will not lead to fight.

Understand it is hard to be sane and rational when someone or something is trying to “change your world”.

Cut people some slack it can get a little crazy at times after all we are humans on earth.

The only mind you can change is your own.

Originally posted by Ubeen
The only mind you can change is your own.

That is so true.

But when opposing views are expressed with humility, people often do change their minds - because they want to.

reply to post by Mary Rose
Thank you for this tread and your voice in the debate. I see you Mary and you see me. If you wish to talk to people make sure you see people first. Stop trying to be right about the truth. Just speak the Truth and Seek the truth.
the rest will work it self out.

reply to post by Ubeen


Thanks!

I hear you saying know your audience.

Great advice!

In the simplest possible terms, this is the internet. Forget that you are on ATS, forget the denial of ignorance and remember where you are. Yes, the internet is a tool which can be used to enlighten, for there is much information of genuine use amongst the data which flows through it every day. It is a communication tool which allows people to learn about other cultures, and other places. It is a mechanism by which goods and services can be traded for the benifit of all nations, and all creeds , colours and religions.
But it is also a place where falsehood, and wrong think are compounded, and flung out like radioactive backwash from an exploding star. It has corners and shadows in which damaged and broken opinions gain wieght and mass until they begin to drag sense itself into a wallow of depravity and insanity. When you access the internet, you are opening a gateway to both light and darkness, just the same as if you walk into a bar. Yeah there will be the patrons who sit quietly , happily enjoying thier beverages and grilled cheese sandwhiches. There will also be the pock marked, gap toothed , foul mouthed drunkards, the marks of thier beaten spouses teeth still apparant on thier fists. When you access the one , you are exposed to the other, without fail.
However, the advantage with the internet, is that you do not have to let these things affect you. You control your exposure to these people, and thier opinions. You do not have anything to fear from something you understand to be bad or incorrect, and you have the ability to choose to ignore these things. I find personaly that with the very worst culprits of this sort of behaviour, if you use reason and overwhelming intellect as your tools, then these fools and liars will melt before you like so much mist under a strong sunrise. If that doesnt work for you, just talk to a mod about the situation, but in all honesty I would try assuming the mantle of a huge rock in a swirling river. The river is impatient, ever moving, ever furious, bubbling and full of invisible currents, but the rock is unmoved, and takes generations to be erroded by the movement of the churning waters around it. Upon it , lichen and moss will grow, unbothered by the tormented swirl around them, and these will be your truths, sprouting from thier firm position. That must be your solidarity if you are to avoid being swept up in the hateful currents of idiocy, in which those who seek to taunt you wish you to drown.
Thankfully , you get a free choice as to wether you sink or swim here. Use it!

HMM, what do we discuss on ATS? Politics (public and personal), religion, fringe topics and sexuality all of which are guaranteed to get people steaming mad at the blockheads that disagree with them. It is inevitable that sarcasm and other written hostilities will occur. All that is needed is for people to chill out and even apologise when they calm down. We are (or should be) here to get to the truth and deny ignorance.

Originally posted by tiger5
. . . deny ignorance.

Speaking of "deny ignorance," there is something about that expression that bothers me.

It could be interpreted to mean that we're not going to admit that we're ignorant.

Also, the tone of it is negative, I think. It sounds flippant to me.

But I'm here because this is the best forum I can find.

reply to post by Mary Rose


Humor is the one thing I notice in those who are able to post with a quick wit. I can't do this, because my funny bone is somewhat different and quick wit escapes me, however I so admire it in others.

What I do is, speak up to the person, ignoring anything they've said that is a personal attack or slur, but treat them as if they were just asking some questions, and respond. However, after a bit its best to not answer them.
Try asking yourself if it seems to be just ego to continue, its getting no where to address the person any further.