Rapture...End of the World... Really?

Originally posted by Epsilon5
reply to post by conspiracy88

 

You can look it up for your own context, but in Matthew, chapter 24, verse 36, it reads that "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

What God does with the extraterrestrials that may or may not exist is His business, not mine. More than that, though, I'm quite certain that the time of the rapture (or tribulation, or whatever you want to call it) won't be let out of the bag until God himself says so (and probably not until He gets the ball rolling). I think that for us to believe that we could calculate the exact date and time of something that Jesus himself admitted he didn't know is presumptuous and rude. Thus, if someone says that the world is ending tomorrow, or three years from now, or any amount of definite time in the future, I'm skeptical to believe them.

Oh, and for those of you who don't believe in the validity of the Bible at all, that's your perogative, but the OP did bring scripture into the conversation, so that's why I felt the need to go there.

Thoughts?

Yeah that's cool and all but see, my post uses a date. Whether or not it's wrong or even if it's "rude" to try and guess the date makes no difference. I gave a specific date, period. I also asked people what they think about the scenario I laid out. I didn't say what God does with aliens is his own business, I clearly asked what does everyone think God does with these other civilizations. I made it everyone's business to try and figure out why it seems like we're getting the raw end of the deal here. Oh yeah... and there wasn't really a reason to go "there" you just made it so.

So AGAIN, I will ask, can some peeps put in some thought into what I presented. Don't tell me why it's stupid. If that's what you're gonna do just move along. I want answers to what I presented.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by conspiracy88

 

So, if I am reading this correctly... You expect an advanced alien race to come along and save us from the wrath of God?

Am I getting the core of it all?

ET is going to save us from pissed off Jesus?

*sigh*

I suppose if you want to believe that something that you cannot prove even exists is going to be your salvation from the destructive acts of an equally unprovable entity - well no harm, no foul.

~Heff

Dude... are you kidding me? Nowhere did I say anything even close to that. There should be a reading comprehension test before joining this site.

reply to post by conspiracy88


If you are honest in your search for truth in regards to the End Times and the coming Rapture the answers you seek are in my signature links below.

You can also visit many of the threads I've started on this subject here on ATS for more.

Originally posted by conspiracy88

Originally posted by Epsilon5
reply to post by conspiracy88

 

You can look it up for your own context, but in Matthew, chapter 24, verse 36, it reads that "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

What God does with the extraterrestrials that may or may not exist is His business, not mine. More than that, though, I'm quite certain that the time of the rapture (or tribulation, or whatever you want to call it) won't be let out of the bag until God himself says so (and probably not until He gets the ball rolling). I think that for us to believe that we could calculate the exact date and time of something that Jesus himself admitted he didn't know is presumptuous and rude. Thus, if someone says that the world is ending tomorrow, or three years from now, or any amount of definite time in the future, I'm skeptical to believe them.

Oh, and for those of you who don't believe in the validity of the Bible at all, that's your perogative, but the OP did bring scripture into the conversation, so that's why I felt the need to go there.

Thoughts?

Yeah that's cool and all but see, my post uses a date. Whether or not it's wrong or even if it's "rude" to try and guess the date makes no difference. I gave a specific date, period. I also asked people what they think about the scenario I laid out. I didn't say what God does with aliens is his own business, I clearly asked what does everyone think God does with these other civilizations. I made it everyone's business to try and figure out why it seems like we're getting the raw end of the deal here. Oh yeah... and there wasn't really a reason to go "there" you just made it so.

So AGAIN, I will ask, can some peeps put in some thought into what I presented. Don't tell me why it's stupid. If that's what you're gonna do just move along. I want answers to what I presented.

For the record, I neither dismissed your topic, nor told you that it was stupid.

What I did was answer your question to the extent that I could. Perhaps I wasn't clear, so I'll elucidate.

In direct response to your question of "what about all the other alien civilizations?", my answer specifically is as follows.

If we're talking about a "Rapture" or a "Tribulation", or an "End of the World Scenario" as caused by God, there is no theological reason to believe that the other alien civilizations would necessarily be included in such an event. The reason for this depends on your canon for whom or what you believe God to be. If you believe God to be as described in the canon of the Bible (which, itself differs from belief system to belief system), there is absolutely no information about any other alien civilization which would provide a definite answer as to whether they would be included in such an event. As far as my understanding of the biblical canon goes, the Rapture, Tribulation, and End-of-the-world scenarios are all based on humanity, which makes perfect sense to me, as the Bible is not (to my knowledge) a history of all things that God has ever done, but, rather, an account of God's dealing with the Jewish people (in the old testament), and of Christ's impact on Jerusalem (in the new testament).

In my previous answer, I summed that up into "What God does with the extraterrestrials that may or may not exist is His business, not mine." Why do I phrase it that way? Because I don't know exactly what things God may or may not have put in place with any other beings he may or may not have created.

Any speculation on my part beyond that would necessarily be based on no facts whatsoever. For the record, I try very, very hard to make sure that I base my statements on fact, or to clearly delineate which parts of my statements are merely opinion.

Thoughts?

I normally try not to thump my bible, but that is nearly impossible with the subject of this thread.

Date Setting:

Matthew 24:36:

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

This verse clearly states that there is NO way that ANY person knows the exact day or time.

The bible does however show us "signs" to watch for and tells us to keep our eyes open.

Matthew 24

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The bible says that we should be looking for signs so that we can be ready.

Also, just for fun, we will look at when the "rapture" (the word is not technically in the bible but that is another story) will happen.. There is a huge debate on when. Pre, mid or post tribulation. The bible clearly states that it happens directly after the tribulation, so why there is a such a debate surrounding this--- I have no idea.

Matthew 24

29Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Aliens:

Some people speculate (it is purely speculation as we have no actual proof either way) that "aliens" are actually "demons or fallen angels". There are some scriptures that back this theory. (One could argue that there might be a scripture to back up anything you want, but many times the passages are taken out of context) There are also "legends" and myths that sort of add credibility to this theory as well.

It is a very interesting theory and I have taken some time to research it for myself.

Firstly, God is repeatedly referred to as "the Lord of hosts" and it is mentioned several times that he created a "heavenly host". It also describes the army of angelic beings that fight against Lucifer and his followers (fallen angels).

Genesis 2:1 (Whole Chapter)
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

So, with that we can understand that there are beings, that are not human, that were created by God, and there are a lot of them. The bible also describes that there are different types, messengers, watchers, etc. In my opinion it sounds as if there were various "races" of these "heavenly" beings, much like there are different races of people. Which could account for reports of different kinds of "aliens". (greys, nordic, etc.) Enough of them that Lucifer has his own "army".

Stay with me, I promise that I do have a point!

The bible says that Lucifer (satan) had followers that "fell" with him.

I am sure you are familiar with the Days of Noah.

Genesis 6

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

"they TOOK them wives of all they CHOSE" this doesn't sound like a willing partnership, it sounds more like abduction, in my opinion.

The days of Noah subject could start 50 other threads, but wouldn't it be possible that the same beings are responsible for the "alien" phenomena??? This theory also ties in with the Great Deception in the end times. (it would have to be something HUGE to make the vast majority believe and worship the antichrist. (which is another word that is also not technically in the bible)

IF this were true, they also have consequences (see below) to face in the end. Just not in the same way that we do. They are forced, where we have the free will to choose, which is why we have a rapture and they do not.

Jude 1:6 (Whole Chapter)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

(I have left A LOT out on this subject. I didn't want my post to be crazy long.)

reply to post by conspiracy88
conspiracy88,

I'll just give you my see of this. There is no aliens, they were here before us. Satan and his were cast down here and have been here since. They can appear and disappear. Yes they communicate with men who will have a part in that.

The only "rapture" I know of is when He comes in the clouds for His own out of this mess that Satan has made of it.

Rapture is a coined word not in the scriptures and many will take verses to show you there is a rapture

Time is an important thing to us here on earth as we live a bit and die. Time is only a temporary thing and is soon to end. How quick no one can know for sure but by the signs all around we know it is at the doors.

When He comes it is not the end of the world but it does not leave any living here on earth.

His Word is True and someday soon all will get to see that.

The way of life we are living on earth God didn't intend it to be this way. One came in and led in rebellion as he did in Heaven and brought down a third of the angels with him and did us the same.

That all is soon to be brought to an utter end.

You'll get lot's of answers.

Truthiron.

reply to post by conspiracy88


"Rapture...End of the World... Really?"

No. Not really.

Moving on...

That mumbo-jumbo is just a paradigm of this planet named Earth. On other planets with humans, they have their own mumbo-jumbo to deal with as well. Earth is not that special as there are many other planets with humans living on them. What is believed on Earth is not of concern in the "grand scheme of things" in the universe.

Well, I can give you the case that the rapture is going to happen soon based on a number of prophesies. Right now this is the prophesy thats holding it back.
Luke 21.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

As of right now the problem is that there are Muslims in control of parts of Jerusalem including the temple mount. Should they ever be routed out of Jerusalem leaving only Jews then you would have 21-24 fulfilled. Then verses 25 thru 28 would then start processing.

Now here is one reason why it's going to be soon.
Matthew 24.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Best guess looking at the prophesies is that this event happened between 1945 and 1948. May 15 1948 being the 2nd event of the Apocalypse when a nation of Israel formed. That would make that event a fig leaf of the tree of Matthew 24. The 2nd one. The Apocalypse and the generation is at least 62 years old. And per Psalms 90 a generation has 70 to 80 years as a general lifespan of humans.

Now here is the prophecy that verifies the 70 to 80 year generation.

So what really happened to the Jews 2000 years ago? Do you think they ever figured out just how badly the threaded metal fastner was tightened onto the animal of the canine persuasion? I'm going to tell you here. So here is the prophecy they initially messed up on.
Malachi 4.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

What was the problem then?
Matthew 17.
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Per his complaint he claimed to be the messiah they were waiting for but the job was a two man process per Malachi and Zechariah. Which is why the job wasn't done in the first century AD. They triggered a curse. So then the problem is to track down the details. And I found them in Leviticus 26 and the book of Hosea.

What they had done was to trigger a top level Leviticus 26 curse. Where the country is destroyed and the people are taken away as slaves. Which happened in 70 and 135 AD. Causing the Diaspora.

And here in a nutshell is the verses in Hosea declaring the curse.
Hosea 3.
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

And it gets worse.
Hosea 5
3 I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now, O Ephraim, thou committest whoredom, and Israel is defiled.
4 They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the LORD.
2 Therefore will I be unto Ephraim as a moth, and to the house of Judah as rottenness.
13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
Hosea 13
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath.

Now here is the length of the curse and a verse that explains it.

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2nd Peter. (Same point is made in Psalms 90)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The days are thousand year periods of time. This curse is 2000 years long. And figuring from the mid 20's AD the curse should be over with by the mid 2020's AD. Roughly approximate to the 80 year generation from 1948.


And then there is the small problem with the book of Daniel. Matthew 24-15 warns of the abomination of desolation repeating in the time of the end. That is referring to Daniel 11-31. Which happens to be in the middle of a 45 verse prophecy that's labeled as occurring in the time of the end. See verse 6 and 40. And then the problem is verse 2.

And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
A perfetly accurate description of the events of 9-11-2001. And then if you jump to chap 8 and the battle of the ram and the goat then the problem there is that at the start of Daniel's "time of the end" 2 nations/kings are conquered and then "Persia" which is modern day Iran is conquered/killed.

To summarize. Daniel is 3 for 3 at the moment. It's starting to look a bit weird out there.