Currency Competition: HR 4248 from Ron Paul (Video)

Ron Paul delivers a speech on HR 4248. He discusses why the federal reserve should not exist. Americans would be wise to support him, as he is one of the few legislators to introduce bills that actually increase our freedom and limit government. H.R. 4248 would legalize the use of precious metal as money in citizens private dealings.

The three key points (as he says) are;
1. Repeal legal tender laws and remove monopoly control of the federal reserve (repeal of Section 5103 of title 31, United States Code )

2. Legalize private mints which would be controlled by fraud/counterfeit laws which do not seem to be enforced in our current monetary system, the fed prints money pro re nata

3. Take taxes off of money. According to the constitution, only gold and silver can be money/legal tender, so the tax needs to be removed so it can be competitive


Actual language from H.R. 4248:

To repeal the legal tender laws, to prohibit taxation on certain coins and bullion, and to repeal superfluous sections related to coinage.

REPEAL OF LEGAL TENDER LAWS. (a) In General- Section 5103 of title 31, United States Code (relating to legal tender), is hereby repealed.

(1) no tax may be imposed on (or with respect to the sale, exchange, or other disposition of) any coin, medal, token, or gold, silver, platinum, palladium, or rhodium bullion, whether issued by a State, the United States, a foreign government, or any other person;

and (2) no State may assess any tax or fee on any currency, or any other monetary instrument, which is used in the transaction of interstate commerce or commerce with a foreign country, and which is subject to the enjoyment of legal tender status under article I, section 10 of the United States Constitution.

H.R. 4248

All paper currencies have ended in inflation in which the paper money was not worth the ink/time/paper it took to make it (this has already happened to our coins). In addition to hedging inflation, one reason I purchased silver bullion is my survivalist aspect in which I foresee our paper money being worthless, and the only bartering tender may be items with intrinsic value (gold, silver, etc.). Ron Paul basically wants to legalize our use of silver/gold when we decide the federal reserve and their money is not worth anything and not useful to us. He does not force it onto us, but gives us an option.

Although not causation, since the 08 bailouts and the litany of legislation passed because of the "global financial crisis", silver has climbed from 11 to 30 $/ounce. Commodities have also risen, sugar went from less than 30 cents/kilogram, to almost 58 cents/kg. Our earnings are evaporating by inflation because although the demand for silver has increased which would naturally increase the price, it has not tripled. Nor has the demand for sugar doubled in less than three years.
Sugar graph
Silver graph


Hopefully this currency competition act will pass. I think an outright ending of the fed would be optimal but not popular enough to occur. A slow death to the federal reserve system via competition and citizens refusal to use their system may be a realistic hope for at least suppressing the federal reserve.

Starred and flagged! Ron Paul has my support. This would effect income taxes if you wanted to get paid in gold or silver, would it not?

Dr. Paul has me full support, I have been after the criminal enterprise known as the Federal Reserve for a long time now, and it seems Ron Paul is the only Congressman with enough cahonies to speak out about them. Go get them, Ron!

reply to post by BenIndaSun

1. Repeal legal tender laws and remove monopoly control of the federal reserve (repeal of Section 5103 of title 31, United States Code )

This doesn't sound too bad till you get to the next part.

2. Legalize private mints which would be controlled by fraud/counterfeit laws which do not seem to be enforced in our current monetary system, the fed prints money pro re nata

One of the reasons that the Federal Reserve was instituted was that banks issuing currency caused all sorts of problems with counterfited currency and rampant fraud. Sorry, it would never work, the Federal Government needs to be the only people to coin and print money.

3. Take taxes off of money. According to the constitution, only gold and silver can be money/legal tender, so the tax needs to be removed so it can be competitive

This is just a flat out lie, nowhere in the constitution does it say that gold and silver can be money/legal tender. Please do yourself a favor and spend some time actually reading this document.

www.archives.gov...

I know it's bad to go against "The Holy Ron Paul" but in this instance, it's a lot of smoke up the poop chute.

Also, BTW, this legislation was in 2009, it's long long dead. www.govtrack.us...

Might want to do some due diligence and look these things up before posting them.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by BenIndaSun

 

2. Legalize private mints which would be controlled by fraud/counterfeit laws which do not seem to be enforced in our current monetary system, the fed prints money pro re nata

One of the reasons that the Federal Reserve was instituted was that banks issuing currency caused all sorts of problems with counterfited currency and rampant fraud. Sorry, it would never work, the Federal Government needs to be the only people to coin and print money.

3. Take taxes off of money. According to the constitution, only gold and silver can be money/legal tender, so the tax needs to be removed so it can be competitive

This is just a flat out lie, nowhere in the constitution does it say that gold and silver can be money/legal tender. Please do yourself a favor and spend some time actually reading this document.

www.archives.gov...

I know it's bad to go against "The Holy Ron Paul" but in this instance, it's a lot of smoke up the poop chute.

Also, BTW, this legislation was in 2009, it's long long dead. www.govtrack.us...

Might want to do some due diligence and look these things up before posting them.

edit on 12/29/2010 by whatukno because: (no reason given)

Can't believe I have to quote the constitution (from my personal copy),
US Constitution Article I, Sextion X:

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; ...

Therefore states have the constitutional right to coin silver and gold as tender.

No where in the constitution do you find the right to print and distribute credit dollar bills (as is done by the federal reserve). Our Congress has the right to borrow money on credit, not make money on credit.

Your reasoning that counterfeiting was a legitimate reason to instill the federal reserve is flawed. Rather than create new government entities the laws on the books should have been enforced. Also, banks were issuing the currency, not states as is the constitutional right.

I knew this was from 2009, 2 years is hardly 'dead'. Many bills take years before to become law. I don't usually reply to rude comments such as yours to avoid encouragement, but you were wrong and the document speaks for itself.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by BenIndaSun

 

2. Legalize private mints which would be controlled by fraud/counterfeit laws which do not seem to be enforced in our current monetary system, the fed prints money pro re nata

One of the reasons that the Federal Reserve was instituted was that banks issuing currency caused all sorts of problems with counterfited currency and rampant fraud. Sorry, it would never work, the Federal Government needs to be the only people to coin and print money.

Right... Because there isn't any or rampant fraud going on right now with the federal reserve. There are all sorts of problems going on right now! Having a monopoly on money, ran in secrecy, with no checks balances is not working. Every business needs competition, with out it the business is allowed to set the bar where ever they want with out any threat of losing profit. With competition you must work harder to secure your foothold by offering up something that the people will choose over the products that are available. If the reserve can't compete with gold or silver as a stable currency, then why do we have it in the first place?

IMO If it ain't broke, don't fix it, But if it is broke, and you don't fix it or replace it you are a fool.

Originally posted by BenIndaSun
Ron Paul delivers a speech on HR 4248. He discusses why the federal reserve should not exist. Americans would be wise to support him, as he is one of the few legislators to introduce bills that actually increase our freedom and limit government. H.R. 4248 would legalize the use of precious metal as money in citizens private dealings.

The three key points (as he says) are;
1. Repeal legal tender laws and remove monopoly control of the federal reserve (repeal of Section 5103 of title 31, United States Code )

2. Legalize private mints which would be controlled by fraud/counterfeit laws which do not seem to be enforced in our current monetary system, the fed prints money pro re nata

3. Take taxes off of money. According to the constitution, only gold and silver can be money/legal tender, so the tax needs to be removed so it can be competitive


Actual language from H.R. 4248:

To repeal the legal tender laws, to prohibit taxation on certain coins and bullion, and to repeal superfluous sections related to coinage.

REPEAL OF LEGAL TENDER LAWS. (a) In General- Section 5103 of title 31, United States Code (relating to legal tender), is hereby repealed.

(1) no tax may be imposed on (or with respect to the sale, exchange, or other disposition of) any coin, medal, token, or gold, silver, platinum, palladium, or rhodium bullion, whether issued by a State, the United States, a foreign government, or any other person;

and (2) no State may assess any tax or fee on any currency, or any other monetary instrument, which is used in the transaction of interstate commerce or commerce with a foreign country, and which is subject to the enjoyment of legal tender status under article I, section 10 of the United States Constitution.

H.R. 4248

All paper currencies have ended in inflation in which the paper money was not worth the ink/time/paper it took to make it (this has already happened to our coins). In addition to hedging inflation, one reason I purchased silver bullion is my survivalist aspect in which I foresee our paper money being worthless, and the only bartering tender may be items with intrinsic value (gold, silver, etc.). Ron Paul basically wants to legalize our use of silver/gold when we decide the federal reserve and their money is not worth anything and not useful to us. He does not force it onto us, but gives us an option.

Although not causation, since the 08 bailouts and the litany of legislation passed because of the "global financial crisis", silver has climbed from 11 to 30 $/ounce. Commodities have also risen, sugar went from less than 30 cents/kilogram, to almost 58 cents/kg. Our earnings are evaporating by inflation because although the demand for silver has increased which would naturally increase the price, it has not tripled. Nor has the demand for sugar doubled in less than three years.
Sugar graph
Silver graph


Hopefully this currency competition act will pass. I think an outright ending of the fed would be optimal but not popular enough to occur. A slow death to the federal reserve system via competition and citizens refusal to use their system may be a realistic hope for at least suppressing the federal reserve.

edit on 29-12-2010 by BenIndaSun because: (no reason given)

I will flag your thread and support this thread. I have decided my time and effort needs to be applied to someone who cares adn is ready, he being Ron Paul. I kudo your thread

reply to post by BenIndaSun


Hey, is that guy reading mnemeth and my rants?

In a free market system, everything is on the table, including the currency.

If I could right now, I would not take US dollars, I would require payment in silver, gold or platinum. Platinum and the silver right now are the ones waaaaayyyy undervalued, where the gold is only slightly, IMO.

Yes, repeal legal tender.

Last person that attempted this ended up going to a hospital in Texas. Be safe RP.

I am totally with Dr. Paul on monetary reform. I think we should reinstitute Glass-Stegall as well as it would go a long way toward reinging in the FED.

reply to post by BenIndaSun


Ok, so you want to remove the FED, (actually a good idea) Take away the Federal Government's duty in Article I Section 8 to coin money (horribly bad Idea).

Now, when you say that States have the right to coin money, you have to understand that while YES states can coin money, (hence places like the Denver Mint which produces coinage.) You are incorrect about how that is supposed to be implemented. You cannot have 50 different currencies in the United States, you would completely and permanently destroy the economy.

Course, that might be your goal, the complete and total permanent collapse of the US economy.

I knew this was from 2009, 2 years is hardly 'dead'. Many bills take years before to become law. I don't usually reply to rude comments such as yours to avoid encouragement, but you were wrong and the document speaks for itself.

New congress, this bill is dead, "The Holy Ron Paul" will have to redraft this legislation and submit it again. Where it will be given to committee again and it will never see the light of day.

Don't get me wrong, I support the idea of ending the FED, however, this idea of yours will never work. Having different banks in different states print different currency will cause the economy to collapse never ever to recover. The US Treasury has to produce money, not gold, not silver, money, and yes the states can print it, but it has to be uniform.

Originally posted by whatukno
One of the reasons that the Federal Reserve was instituted was that banks issuing currency caused all sorts of problems with counterfited currency and rampant fraud. Sorry, it would never work, the Federal Government needs to be the only people to coin and print money.

This is true, and even more punctuated if one looks at the currency issues during the Articles of Confederation, however I believe they are talking about simply creating coins made of gold or silver of varying weights. This could, of course, be regulated by Congress although I tend to disagree with this idea of opening it up but don't think we should eliminate private minting of coins either.

This is just a flat out lie, nowhere in the constitution does it say that gold and silver can be money/legal tender. Please do yourself a favor and spend some time actually reading this document.

This is true, although it's slightly murky. It says States can not "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts" and it also gives the Federal government the power to coin money, but it does not specify the nature of that money or how it's value is based.

The fiat money system, if created by the Treasury, would (according to my understanding) be perfectly legal, if not terribly smart.

Yes, this bill, like most of Ron Paul's, die a quiet and horrible death.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by BenIndaSun

 

Now, when you say that States have the right to coin money, you have to understand that while YES states can coin money, (hence places like the Denver Mint which produces coinage.) You are incorrect about how that is supposed to be implemented. You cannot have 50 different currencies in the United States, you would completely and permanently destroy the economy.

Course, that might be your goal, the complete and total permanent collapse of the US economy.

Don't get me wrong, I support the idea of ending the FED, however, this idea of yours will never work. Having different banks in different states print different currency will cause the economy to collapse never ever to recover. The US Treasury has to produce money, not gold, not silver, money, and yes the states can print it, but it has to be uniform.

I see what you are saying, but I think the states can work together as they have in the past. The Uniform Commercial Code is an example of states agreeing to codify statutes pertaining to business. This was voluntary, and states only agreed if they deemed it in their best interest. Not all states initially agreed, Louisiana being the last. (Although I do admit the UCC is not exactly a freedom-loving piece of legislation)
U.C.C.

Also, precious metals have an objective value based on their metric weight. All 50 states can print their own silly cartoons/words onto the face, but the value would be based on grams of metal on the scale. It doesn't necessarily need to be actual gold/silver, but at least paper money notes that can, at any time, be exchanged for real gold/silver. Of course I don't mean to divert to the issue of metal backed money.

I do not want our country to fail, but we will have to go through a difficult transition as we purge the ill effects that have been created by government regulations and the monetary policy of the federal reserve.

At least we agree the federal reserve should be ended.