Are you a Serf, or a Citizen?

There has always been numerous definitions of serfdom. Let us attempt to detail the differences of the past, to the present.

In the past, a serf was someone that was required to give to the Lord a perecentage of the production to the state. So, does this fit you?

In the past, a serf was not allowed to own property, they were forced to pay substitive value on their supposed "property", is this you?

In the past, a serf was forced to pay to his Lord a percentage of his labor, is this you?

So tell me folks, what is the difference between you and the peasants of the past?

The difference between me and they?

Why, that's easy!

I'm serfin USA!

Seriously though, I don't mind taxes. I mean someone has to pay for stuff, now do "they" tax too much? (My opinion says yes.)

(Taxes could use an enema, that is for sure.)

reply to post by adigregorio


So you agree, you are a serf. Thanks for playing.

Hey serf, can I tax you 99% of your ability to pay? Oh, wait a minute, you are a serf, what am I thinking of asking you for.

Next serf please. You folks want a oligarchy, I will treat you as serfs.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Aye I agreed, taxes need an enema.

Belittling my fellow citizens is not the way to achieve this enema.

reply to post by adigregorio


Well DAMN IT, I am attempting to get you PISSED OFF.

Where does 95% of taxes go? Oh, that would be to the bankers.

Pissed off yet?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


I have been upset for a long time.

Which brings us to the million dollar (before taxes (Ha!)) question.

"I'm mad as hell, I am not going to take anymore, what do you suggest I do about it?"

I do anything I can think of (legally) to limit the amount of money that is syphoned from me without representation. (Oh, and I know what money really is so the whole foolishness of it flabberghasts me not.)

So, be angry. Anger is healthy, especially for corruption. Do not use that anger against your team-mates (my opinion). If they are mad at you, and the tax man--er person-- what happens? You get all the anger, because you are here. (And instigating it.)

Just my two (worthless) cents.

But my taxes go to the greater god.I mean good.Your thoughts please.

reply to post by Beavis


In Money we Trust, I mean In God we Trust, or in Bankers we trust.

Something like that.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


I believe it is:

"In God we trust, all others pay cash."
--Gene Sheppard

I burn my money, render undo "God" that which is "God's" I say!

I do have a question though, do you spend money? If you spend money you are being a hypocrite with all this serf talk.

Do you pay your taxes? I have never sent in a tax form in my life. (30 years old now)

Of course I still spend money, so I don't chide my fellow Americans on their habbits. Since I am just as Serfy as they are.

Lastly, why not try to inform others instead of angering them?

The Feudal Lord had the right of the Prima Notte, or the deflowering of any serf bride in his kingdom on her wedding night.
www.xtec.es...
If it's Prince Harry I'd be a serf-girl any day...sigh.

Otherwise what's the difference between classes today and serfs?
At least Feudal Lords had certain obligations to their serfs, modern capitalists can treat people like serfs, and when they tire of them they can kick them out onto the street.
Serfs were better off for their time than most citizens today.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
There has always been numerous definitions of serfdom. Let us attempt to detail the differences of the past, to the present.

I'm listening...

In the past, a serf was someone that was required to give to the Lord a perecentage of the production to the state. So, does this fit you?

I don't think I understand this question, but I give all of my production to 'the state'. In modern terms, federally subsidized non-profit organizations with a healthy number of volunteers would probably fall into this category as well.

In the past, a serf was not allowed to own property, they were forced to pay substitive value on their supposed "property", is this you?

I am allowed to own property, but I don't know what a 'substitive value' is soooo...I think my answer is no.

In the past, a serf was forced to pay to his Lord a percentage of his labor, is this you?

I pay the person who owns the land I live on a percentage of my paycheck, but my labor is not my paycheck.

So tell me folks, what is the difference between you and the peasants of the past?

A higher standard of living and the ability to choose my 'lord', among numerous other differences regarding pay and labor and so forth.

Basically, serfs were never allowed to own property.
That was for the Lords. Serfs were NEVER allowed to own property. They were held in servitude to their masters.

Hmmm, relevance? Can you hold property without having to pay for it continually and forever?

Prove to me you can. If not, the citizens have become serfs again. Period.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


I went outside today and picked up a handful of land. I have had it in my pocket all day, and have not had to pay one cent for it. When will I have to pay taxes for my land?

Why do you expect to be given land for free? How many Americans are there in this country? How much "free land" is each American entitled to? What happens when we run out of land?

Lastly, why do you expect to be given a free ride? The founding fathers were against over taxing, not taxing. They would have been infantile to expect a country to survive off of "good will" alone. (That is called a perfect world fallacy.) Who is to pay for the services you are "given" when you quit paying taxes?

Anyway, the most important question. "What happens when we run out of land?" More Americans than land, and you say we have a right to not pay for our land. Who gets to decide which American gets how much land?

(Also, do you pay taxes? I noticed you avoided my post. Feeling the sting of hypocrisy are we?)

reply to post by adigregorio


No! NO! NO!

Look into how the government gathered taxation in the beginning of this country. Do you think that once you purchased land, you had to continue to pay for it? How bout licensing behavior that is LEGAL? Do you know what licensing is? It is the authorization of doing something that is not legal without authorization from the state.

I am NOT arguing for no taxation, I am arguing for true taxation. Once you own something, you own it. You do not have to continually pay for the PRIVILEGE of the use of your own property.

reply to post by links234


Buy a plot of land, then attempt to build so much as a fence or a shed without getting permission. Do we really own land if we have to ask what and where on our land we can build?

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
I am NOT arguing for no taxation, I am arguing for true taxation.

My ignorance has made you ill and angry. (Sorry!!)
--reference to an obsolete show--

I am with you now, whether I agree or not remains to be seen. (Need more data/evidence)

Either way, thank you for the clarification. And for bearing with my ignorance!

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
There really is no difference between the way it was in the past and now.

Many people are just blinded by the trinkets and overpriced luxuries they "think" they enjoy.

Your luxuries have made you complacent and docile.

You are easy to control,because you falsely believe you are free.

But You Are NOT FREE!.

You are free range livestock,nothing more.

reply to post by adigregorio


No probs, my argument has always been about individual property rights.

Once you purchase something, you own it. Be it a car, a house, a piece of land, or even if it is the product of your labor. Say you go to work for someone, you trade evenly your labor for a unit of currency, that is a straight up trade of one thing for value for another thing of value. You created it by your labor.

To me, the only true lawful taxation would be say consumption taxation. You purchase something, the government can place a sales tax upon it. Or another could be if you have money in the market, you get payments for the creation of wealth so this is a true measure of income from capitalization of assets. This can be taxed lawfully.

When you sell something for profit, an income is created, that can be taxed. Here though you have to take into account the inflationary rate of the currency though. Kind of a gray area.

In the US they have so many types of taxation it is ridiculous. In the past 5 years my city has actually created a RAIN TAX. They charge you for the water that runs off your property. Now, some places built holding areas for the rain so that the water would not cause problems to the waterways. The rise in the waterways temperature causes increased growth which causes problems. Do they get to not pay the tax? Of course they have to pay, it is just another way for the government to steal your property and make you a serf.

This is what I am getting at. Any more clarification needed?

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


Just one more piece of clarification, are we mad at "state taxes" or "federal taxes"?

The "Rain Tax" seems to be a state tax, though I think the "Death Tax" is akin to it.

Like I said, I don't pay (formed) taxes. I have never turned in a tax form in my life, and I will never do so.
I can not avoid un-"form"ed taxes..."Sales tax" for instance.

Under the table, over their heads.

(And apologies again for misunderstanding your position.)

reply to post by adigregorio


township, city, state, federal, next coming international taxation of any sort that is a property type tax is what I am mad about.

But there are taxes buried within everything that we do not even know about. The worst one being the inflation tax created by the fiat currency and fractional reserve banking.