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The Conspiracy of Pride

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posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 09:35 AM
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"God is. Love God. Live God."

This is the core belief of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The purpose of all the teachings of these religions is to teach this "one" belief. Each believe the other is wrong.

I say there is a conspiracy to be seen here. It is not a conspiracy of the leaders of these churches to have power. It is a conspiracy of pride.

People get so distracted by all the words used to explain "Why?" this core belief is true they forget the words are just answers to that question.

They know their words teach the "core belief" so they think "This is the Truth!" which is true. But then pride steps in. They think "This is the Truth, it is the only way to learn."

They look to the other religions and say "My way is the only so you are wrong!"

Even though it wasn't stated as such, this is the conspiracy that was being discussed and dispelled in the thread that was closed and the thread that was moved.

If the moderators do not believe this is a conspiracy worthy to be discussed on this board, then so be it. I can in clear conscious say "I tried to Deny Ignorance."

I would like to leave with this analogy:

God is.
deny ignorance.
This motto has life. It demands ATS members to think.

Love God.
It is a state of mind.
It is a sense of purpose.
It is a statement against the paradigm.
It is a rage against mindless status-quo.

Live God.
The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish.
Instead it is a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate.

Deny ignorance is what we do.
It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

Ignorance is the creeping crud of history that has clouded our minds and dulled our brains. It is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. It's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.

.



[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]




posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
If the moderators do not believe this is a conspiracy worthy to be discussed on this board, then so be it.


Is that your impression of the mods here?

If so, I must apologize.

I do feel the topic is of interest, to me at least. I'm sure more than a few will reply in turn, as theology is a hot topic on ATS.

Pride may have much to do with the bitterness between beliefs mentioned, but so does their history. To really grasp why religions cannot be perfect is is to understand that, "To Err Is Human" might clarify.

All our lives we learn the hard way, this is evident through history. Just in NASA that can be seen.

Religion would be among the worst examples of this trait, we cannot expect to get things right, when no one can even agree with each other.

With that said, lets DENY us some IGNORANCE, and see what the fighting is about.

[edit on 6-7-2004 by ADVISOR]



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 11:12 AM
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The thread that was closed was a waste of time. The very thing that Raphael is complaining about was the only thing being pushed in there - one set of beliefs as they conform to the new majority.

The thread that was moved was not a conspiracy thread. It was a theological thread and belonged in BTS.

Raphael. You say that God is Love. In my opinion God is much more than Love.
The only conspiracy is how the orthodox religions try and pigeon-hole God and make him into their image.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
If the moderators do not believe this is a conspiracy worthy to be discussed on this board, then so be it.


Is that your impression of the mods here?

If so, I must apologize.



To say I have an impression is to say I have made a judgement. This is not for me. I only know the replies the moderators made in those to threads and my own lack of understanding. The closing of the first thread left a bad taste in my mouth, that is to say I did not understand and could not speak the truth of why it was closed. The moving of the second did not. I understood why it was moved. By appearances it was a straight theology discussion. This post was to explain that there was conspiracy to be seen, not a willful conspiracy, but one of ignorance and pride. Indeed my only hope is that the Moderators see this as a conspiracy and allow it to be discussed on the board that allows more people to see.

Edit:

Leveller,

I do not believe I have ever said God is simply love. This is not what I believe. These are labels that attempt to explain. They are inadequate. Indeed, I made an analogy in the thread that was closed, "If God were a number what number would be be?" This was to explain that labels (words) cannot explain that which is God.

"God is. Love God. Live God." are only the answers to "Why am I here?" and "Where did I come from?"






[edit on 6-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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Hello ADVISOR,

Originally posted by ADVISOR

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
If the moderators do not believe this is a conspiracy worthy to be discussed on this board, then so be it.


Is that your impression of the mods here?

If so, I must apologize.

I do feel the topic is of interest, to me at least. I'm sure more than a few will reply in turn, as theology is a hot topic on ATS.

With that said, lets DENY us some IGNORANCE, and see what the fighting is about.

I have to agree with Raphael_UO,

The thread that was moved was a continuation of the thread titled:- "To anyone Islamic, or of any other religion..."

At some point in that original thread the topic of Jesus was being discussed by me and Raphael_UO (amongst others). This sub-discussion was absolutely on-topic to the original post. Whereas other sub-discussions may not have been, but fortunately fleeting in existence.


So why have the mods moved the continuation thread but left the original thread. Both are as conspiratorial (or not) as each other regarding their first post. The topic name of the second was changed because a mod told me to change it, but the subject matter is perfectly in tune with that original thread.

With this in mind, perhaps you would agree logically it makes sense to move both threads or neither? If you choose to move just one then is there a reason we should know or must that remain a conspiracy to discuss?


Many thanks,

M



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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Before the discussion of the Trinity continues, I would like to discuss whether this Conspiracy actually exists. Then I would like to discuss where people think this "Conspiracy" originated. Can it indeed be "ignorance and pride" conspiring?

First question:

Do you (any followers of Judaism, Islam, or Christianity) believe that your core belief in most basic terms is "God is. Love God. Live God."?
(allowing for changes to the label "God" to match a particular belief)

Second Question:

Do you believe the (Torah, Bible, Qur'an)'s purpose is to teach these most basic terms, not only to you but your children?


Logical exercise:

If you answered yes to both, is it not logical to assume something prevents Muslims, Christians, and Jews from "getting along"?


Follow up question:

What would this something be?


My Belief in this matter:

There is a conspiracy between ignorance and pride. I believe all answers to the above question can be "boiled down" and these two things will be all that is left.

.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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I don't believe it is a conspiracy of pride. We are a more imaginative than intelligent species. Pride is one of our character flaws, myself included. We're a generally stupid species that has visions of intelligence. What the hey, sometimes dreams do come true. Cross your fingers, but don't hold your breath.

PS. there probably are intelligent people who quietly observe, they are usually the least outspoken ones though, the dumbest talk/yell the loudest because they have nothing else going on upstairs.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 09:53 PM
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Raphael_UO,

you said
With this in mind, perhaps you would agree logically it makes sense to move both threads or neither? If you choose to move just one then is there a reason we should know or must that remain a conspiracy to discuss?

My reason for closing the original thread was given and then obviously disregarded only to grow and float into this type of discussion on "why" that particular thread was closed. You claim a "conspiracy of pride and ignorance" and I claim that you are saying and believing what you will, but the original thread had degenerated into a Theological discussion and was basically rehashing what had and has been discussed within ATS in the past. Are you bringing anything "new" to this type discussion? I think not, BUT here's what I will do.....I re-opened the thread that you are complaining about, by creating this thread/topic, and then have moved it to join the other thread that was created when the original was closed. IMHO....you should have simply filed a complaint instead of creating this thread/topic and then the entire staff could have reviewed why I closed the original.


As such, since the original thread has been re-opened, and has currently joined the second one that was created, this particular thread has run its course and is closed.

IF you have any further questions, please file a complaint for staff review.



seekerof



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