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Professional engineer Jon Cole cuts steel columns with thermate, debunks Nat Geo & unexpectedly repr

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posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by skeptic_al


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If I knew somebody was going to Kill somebody and could prevent it, am I guilty for not stopping it?



Yes, you would.

second




posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by skeptic_al


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If I knew somebody was going to Kill somebody and could prevent it, am I guilty for not stopping it?



Yes, you would.

second


Seems to remind me of:

Chiles: I am shocked and chagrined, mortified and stupefied. This trial is outrageous! It is a waste of the taxpayers' time and money. It is a travesty of justice that these four people have been incarcerated while the real perpetrator is walking around laughing - lying and laughing, laughing and lying. You know what these four people were? They were innocentbystanders. Now, you just think about that term. Innocent. Bystanders. Because that's exactly what they were. We know theywere bystanders, nobody's disputing that. So how can a bystander be guilty? No such thing. Have you ever heard of a guilty bystander? No, because you cannot be a bystander and be guilty. Bystanders are by definition, innocent. That is the nature of bystanding. But no, they want to change nature here. They want to create a whole new animal - the guilty bystander. Don't you let them do it. Only you can stop them.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by tilpah
 


The towers were destroyed for the EVIDENCE that was destroyed.

It wouldn't surprise me if 1 & 2 were diversions that were put in place to help the fascists in our government, which is basically our entire federal government if you consider that it is a corporation, put into place the patriot act and go to war.

But the real goods were in building 7.

That is where all of the documents regarding all of the white collar fraud was being housed for the prosecution in the cases of something like SEC (security and exchange commission) vs. ENRON.
The SEC was housed in building 7.

When was the last time you guys heard about Enron?

How many people lost their entire life savings to that company?

Look to see who all had offices in building 7 and look to see who would have benefit from the implosions.

9/11 was a travesty of justice on so many levels that we are just now finding out.
edit on 12/21/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
a) sometimes, superficial similarity is just that. When watching some of the thermate test videos, one cannot help but notice some similarity to a volcano eruption -- violent ejection of hot material and "lava" flow.


Actually magma glows red, not white, and in general it looks a lot more like thermite than it does a volcano. Can you think of anything else it looks like, more similar than either thermite or a volcano?


b) it's not possible to guide an airplane within inches of planted thermate. The videos show the alleged flow of molten metal in the vicinity of impact point, not 20 stories up or down.


The building didn't start collapsing 20 or stories up or down from the impact site, either. You wouldn't have to guide it within inches of the right area if they set it up the way Cole suggests in the video: 3 perimeter columns had the devices, then the next 6 didn't, then the next 3 did, etc. That makes it a matter of 15 feet at least, and even at that Flight 175 would not have been 100% dead-on anyway because it did damage the corner of WTC2 and you do see the white-hot flow of molten metal pouring out, just like the thermite reactions he shows.


c) flows of metal in 9/11 videos could be anything, like melting siding of the building (sheet metal)


This has been discussed to death and aluminum does not glow like that (aluminum remains silvery in cool air on its surface, falling through the air, etc.), lead (same thing), or any other metal heated only to 700 C or so of the fire. In any case the metal had to have been heated above the temperature of the fire and it looks exactly like not only molten iron but that it's being sprayed out like a jet from a thermite reaction.


d) there is no way you can ensure that thermate burns synchronously as to ensure an instantaneous and uniform collapse.


Yes there is. The perimeter columns weren't holding up the building. After you melt through parts of the perimeter structure silently and with very low visibility, if any at all, you sever the core structure. I and many others are convinced this had to have happened, or neither tower would have ever fallen, because the core was the main structure holding the towers up. Once it's destroyed, it tries to shift all of its loads onto the perimeter columns via the hat truss, which can't support nearly the amount of weight being suddenly thrown onto them, and immediately begin collapsing at their weakest points.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by aliengenes
reply to post by pteridine
 


that's not what it was meant to do. it was meant to weaken all the stress points then let gravity do the rest.
the only reason anyone got to see anything was because the plane had damaged the outer structure and it gave away what was going on throughout the building.


How do you tell the difference between a collapse from weakened stress points and a plain collapse? You can't sequence them fast enough to do more than start the collapse.
edit on 12/21/2010 by pteridine because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 

While watching the documentary you provided, I took notice of the source in which is being used. If I analyze the source a little closer (wtc.nist.gov...), there are some interesting 'facts' people are ignoring.

National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster


1. If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.



2. Why did NIST not consider a “controlled demolition” hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation as it did for the “pancake theory” hypothesis?

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower.

In order for the thermate theory to even be considered, people would have to prove that 200+ experts got their information wrong. Hobbyists editing YouTube clips cannot debunk the original story. Since they lack the education, experiences, and credentials, hobbyists have absolutely no credibility in comparison.

After reading the government's assessments, my faith in the original analysis is even stronger.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by Section31
 


Any chance of some names? Maybe some Names of the "private sectors"? Maybe some sort of credentials? All that is just some numbers. At least the independent scientists that are questioning the OS have the balls to be in the open.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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4. Weren't the puffs of smoke that were seen, as the collapse of each WTC tower starts, evidence of controlled demolition explosions?

No. As stated in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, the falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it—much like the action of a piston—forcing smoke and debris out the windows as the stories below failed sequentially. These puffs were observed at many locations as the towers collapsed. In all cases, they had the appearance of jets of gas being pushed from the building through windows or between columns on the mechanical floors. Such jets are expected since the air inside the building is compressed as the tower falls and must flow somewhere as the pressure builds. It is significant that similar “puffs” were observed numerous times on the fire floors in both towers prior to their collapses, perhaps due to falling walls or portions of a floor. Puffs from WTC 1 were even observed when WTC 2 was struck by the aircraft. These observations confirm that even minor overpressures were transmitted through the towers and forced smoke and debris from the building.

When it comes to the puffs of smoke theory (due to demolitions), the above explanation is both believable and understandable. As each level collapsed downward, the air pressure within the lower levels blew out the windows. Even though the tower's outer-shell stayed in tact longer, the inner levels were crumbling within the shell. So, when you saw the puffs of smoke occur before the outer-shell collapsed, the majority of the inner structure had already collapsed.

What people had missed was the sequence of events. As the inner levels collapsed downward, the outer-structure of the building fell afterward.

Sequence of collapse would look something like this:
Step 1: Inner structure on level one collapses. (causing air pockets to blow out windows.)
Step 2: Outer structure (outer shell) on level one collapses.
Step 3: Inner structure on level two collapses. (causing air pockets to blow out windows.)
Step 4: Outer structure (outer shell) on level two collapses.
Step 5: Inner structure on level three collapses. (causing air pockets to blow out windows.)
Step 6: Outer structure (outer shell) on level three collapses.
Step 7: Inner structure on level four collapses. (causing air pockets to blow out windows.)
Step 8: Outer structure (outer shell) on level four collapses.
Step 9: Inner structure on level five collapses. (causing air pockets to blow out windows.)
Step 10: Outer structure (outer shell) on level five collapses.
Step 11: Etc...


Originally posted by OptimistPrime
reply to post by Section31
 
Any chance of some names? Maybe some Names of the "private sectors"? Maybe some sort of credentials? All that is just some numbers. At least the independent scientists that are questioning the OS have the balls to be in the open.
Unless the government makes them available, that information is really none of your business. If the 9/11 conspiracy groups got a hold of that list, they would harass them to such an extent that it puts their lives in danger.

After seeing how 9/11 conspiracy theorists treat people on ATS, I don't blame the government for keeping certain names from the public.

edit on 21-12-2010 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Nutter
 



Please don't be disingeneous. It is not about thermite being able to cut steel as it is thermite and thermate being able to horizontally cut through a vertical steel column to sever it. Which the debunkers have said is impossible since day one. Only now to have to eat crow.

I guarantee I can find a post for every debunker here that has claimed as such.


Okay , now your mouth is writin' checks that your ass just can't cash .

Go ahead , make good on your guarantee by providing a single post where I have stated such .

I'll make it easy for you , don't bother looking , as I've never said anything of the sort .

Stop lying .



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by pteridine
 

its true you probably couldn't sequence them fast enough for any "true" verification. the witnesses and victims can only share what they heard felt and seen, because "The" investigation never took place. it was quickly scooped up and sold to the chinese and dumped in the ocean, then totally overshadowed by the bush cheney teams agenda. pretty odd isnt it?



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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What was all that nanothermite for then? So far no debunker explained that, except for saying lalalala nanowhat? I cant hear youuu lalalala.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 



But the real goods were in building 7.

That is where all of the documents regarding all of the white collar fraud was being housed for the prosecution in the cases of something like SEC (security and exchange commission) vs. ENRON.
The SEC was housed in building 7.

When was the last time you guys heard about Enron?

How many people lost their entire life savings to that company?


This has to be one of the more ignorant arguments surrounding 9/11 .

Do you actually believe that the "documents" weren't backed up by copies of said documents ? Are you really so stupid as to believe that those documents didn't have copies elsewhere ?

And , how many of those Enron guys still went to prison ? Hmmm .

How many people lost their life-savings to Madoff ? Oh , this isn't relevant , is it ? Neither is this :


How many people lost their entire life savings to that company?


How is that relevant ?

It amazes me that there are people who believe 9/11 was orchestrated and carried out by the government simply to save the asses of some Enron buddies . The WHOLE purpose of 9/11 was to destroy some paperwork to keep a few people from going to prison ? Are you really buying that ? It has to be the most ignorant theory there is , concerning 9/11 .

Too bad they went to those lengths just to keep their pals out of jail , but then they didn't have enough clout to keep them from going to jail anyway . Yea , now that really makes sense , doesn't it ?

Jesus , you people are something else .



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Section31
 





In order for the thermate theory to even be considered, people would have to prove that 200+ experts got their information wrong. Hobbyists editing YouTube clips cannot debunk the original story. Since they lack the education, experiences, and credentials, hobbyists have absolutely no credibility in comparison. After reading the government's assessments, my faith in the original analysis is even stronger.


Here I fixed it for you:

In order for the thermate theory to be wrong, the government would have to prove that their 200+ experts weren't told what information to report. Truth telling ENGINEERS using a video sharing format such as Youtube are able to debunk the original story with simple experiments. Since the government lacks honesty, transparency, unbiased dissertations, and political neutrality, most government shills assertions are obviously biased and false. After reading the government's assessments, my faith in the original analysis is non-existent.

Do you have a golden ticket?


Coming soon to a theater near you.



YOU BETTER RUN!



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Section31
 


So basically what you are saying is that anything the govt does is none of my business as a taxpayer. FDA does not have to list any names or credentials to tell me what is good or bad for me to eat or I dont need to know who the surgeon general is either right? Do as they say and dont ask questions. Its no wonder we are in the mess we are in right now with people like you in this country. Im guessing I dont have a right to see the policemans badge who is there to serve and protect me either, just take his word for it because he is dressed as a policeman. The wolf looks like a sheep so he must be a sheep. I bet congress would like to be under those guidelines as well, so people cant call and complain about bills that are passed or about to be passed. So much for the govt working for the people.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:45 AM
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Last time I checked, the national anthem says this is the home of the brave, so far the only bravery I have seen is the bravery to question the govt. "sorry sir, but you as a citizen are not privy to all the information concerning your safety".



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by FlySolo
 


You cannot time sequential collapse using thermate/thermite. They are too slow acting. The buildings must have collapsed gravitationally after initiation. So much for the thermite theory......


You're fired. All things are possible and if you really want to get something done, there is a way. Here we have the OPs video and 300 flags. I think you have been outnumbered and the majority has cast their vote. Give up already, but that won't stop you from digging a deeper hole for the debunkers. Your group is getting smaller and smaller.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Really? Well you better tell LLNL their experiments and photo proof are wrong then!

www.llnl.gov...

It seems they cut through some PRETTY thick steel in 19.3 MICROSECONDS.

Micro is smaller than Milli just so you know...


As a physicist, I do know the difference between milli, micro, nano, pico and femto. But thank you anyway.

And again and again, I'm astonished by superficiality of your comments. Shaped charges are not new by any means, and they work by concentration of tremendous pressure and heat on a small patch of the target. The target is defeated by piercing in one point and injection of superheated gas and spall through the resulting hole (cf a tank).

Cutting a massive beam is a different affair altogether. For you, however, it seems like if something goes BOOM, that must be it. And that's just not the case.




edit on 21-12-2010 by buddhasystem because: typo



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Section31
What people had missed was the sequence of events. As the inner levels collapsed downward, the outer-structure of the building fell afterward.


I witnessed the collapse of the second tower myself (with my own eyes) and what I saw it close to what you are describing. The siding opened like banana peel, and there was not much of a banana inside, meaning that internals were progressing at least as fast or faster.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
reply to post by NorEaster
 


it can't be taken seriously due to the public display of ignorance that the online community seems to revel in. IF, and I do mean IF, the is a conspiracy concerning 911, all I can say is most folks trying to shed light on it are doing nothing more than making sure than anybody who questions if looks like a total ignorant nutjob.


Are you so sure about that?
Scientific Poll: 84% Reject 9/11 Offical Story



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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Nice work by Jonathan Cole and thanks to the OP for posting it. I hope that dedicated people with the resources to do so continue to nail down the case for the prosecution, point by point by point. Maybe if more and more of a consensus emerges on the issue of 9/11, whistleblowers from the inside of the plot will come forward with precise details of the who, what, where when, and how of the operation.

Over the last eight years, these people put America where she is in both financial and military terms. They must be brought to book for it. 9/11 was not a perfect crime by any means but it is a perfect opportunity to nail a collection of America's top national and trans-national felons.



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