Ireland's Abortion Ban Slammed by EU Judges

reply to post by SevenBeans


The problems is that laws is a "deterrent" but is doesn't actually stop some from doing what the law is trying to stop.

Is human nature, we humans have a will and like I say where is a will is a way, no laws against child pornography have stop people from doing it, children are still exploited in many nations and US is not exempt.

Laws that criminalize murder are enacted in many nations, still people kill and murder in every nation.

Is hard to find a way to stop people from doing what society tells them is wrong.

Some laws are necessary to maintain civility and order.

But many laws are enacted pushed by certain groups (usually the vocal minority) that had made their job to tell others how to live their lives base on certain principles that are no always shared by the majority.

Originally posted by marg6043
The problems is that laws is a "deterrent" but is doesn't actually stop some from doing what the law is trying to stop.

Is human nature, we humans have a will and like I say where is a will is a way, no laws against child pornography have stop people from doing it, children are still exploited in many nations and US is not exempt.

Laws that criminalize murder are enacted in many nations, still people kill and murder in every nation.

Is hard to find a way to stop people from doing what society tells them is wrong.

Not sure what your point is, are you suggesting that laws are generally a waste of time because people will do all these things anyway?

Originally posted by marg6043
But many laws are enacted pushed by certain groups (usually the vocal minority) that had made their job to tell others how to live their lives base on certain principles that are no always shared by the majority.

All laws "tell others how to live their lives."

reply to post by SevenBeans


Where we differ is you're arguing for a legal system. I'm not. People have, do, and will, always have the ability to choose. Laws don't stop anything. Why aren't people out raging mad at all these examples you bring up? They choose not to. They choose to let the government handle it for them.

Maybe some day we will become as progressive as China, forced abortions, forced sterilizations and infanticide of female babies.

Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
Where we differ is you're arguing for a legal system. I'm not. People have, do, and will, always have the ability to choose. Laws don't stop anything. Why aren't people out raging mad at all these examples you bring up? They choose not to. They choose to let the government handle it for them.

You don't think we should have a legal system?

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
I am in no way, shape, or form God therefore it's not my job to tell you what's right and what's wrong.

All laws revolve around "what is right and what is wrong" I don't understand people who apply their distaste for such judgements only to certain laws. Would you also say, "I am in no way, shape or form God therefore it's not my job to tell you not to... discriminate based on race, steal, sell drugs etc. etc. (?)"

What about the law that tells you what side of the road to drive on? Is it morally incorrect in America to drive on the left, and morally incorrect in Australia to drive on the right?

It's wrong to wake your napping neighbours at midday by calling them turnip-stuffed haggises, but does the law bother to address that?

American law is based on what keeps society running smoothly. Too many murders would create fear and confusion, and interfere with business. Keeping drugs illegal enables the CIA to make a fortune on the side to finance black ops. Allowing abortion means the poor breed less prolifically compared to the rich.

For many years, despite wife-beating being known to be bad, no law addressed it because it was not considered to be impacting society.

So no, laws are for the functioning of society, not for any moral purpose.

Originally posted by Kailassa
Allowing abortion means the poor breed less prolifically compared to the rich.


So no, laws are for the functioning of society, not for any moral purpose.

edit on 17/12/10 by Kailassa because: (no reason given)

So are we to assume from this that the Republic of Ireland's ban on abortion is also for the functioning of the Irish citizens and its society? And are we also to assume that the Republic of Ireland, for the sake of its society running smoothly, wants the poor to breed more prolifiically than the rich?

How would the poor breeding more prolifically be better for society?

Originally posted by youdidntseeme

Originally posted by Kailassa
Allowing abortion means the poor breed less prolifically compared to the rich.


So no, laws are for the functioning of society, not for any moral purpose.

So are we to assume from this that the Republic of Ireland's ban on abortion is also for the functioning of the Irish citizens and its society? And are we also to assume that the Republic of Ireland, for the sake of its society running smoothly, wants the poor to breed more prolifiically than the rich?

How would the poor breeding more prolifically be better for society?

Firstly, you left out this part of my post, "American law is based on what keeps society running smoothly."
See, I was discussing American law.

Secondly, you also left out the context. I was arguing against this, "All laws revolve around "what is right and what is wrong""

Thirdly, countries neither pass laws nor have intentions regarding these laws. Countries are merely areas of land within arbitrary boundaries.

As I'm sure you're aware, laws in Ireland, as in America are made by politicians.
In Ireland, as in America, the Catholic Church has put a great deal of pressure on the politicians to go against the wishes of the majority of the Irish people and to vote to keep abortion illegal.
In Ireland, unlike in America, possibly due to the seriousness with which many take Catholicism there, this pressure was effective.

So the question we now have is, did the pope choose to apply this pressure because abortion is immoral, or did he choose to apply this pressure in order to encourage the breeding of lots more Catholics?

reply to post by SevenBeans


It means that no matter what laws are enacted people will always fight them, and brake them, is human nature to challenge authority, specially those that have appointed and consider themselves the law.