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Ireland's Abortion Ban Slammed by EU Judges

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posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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Sky News source


This appears to be shaping ito a landmark case in Europe. Ireland currently bans all abortions unless the expectant mother faces grave and fatal danger due to the preganancy.

The woman in question in this case was diagnosed with cancer and was told her prgnancy would cause her disease to relapse and put her at risk. She was forced to travel to England to have the procedure.

The court ruled that her civil rights had been violated by Irish law. Is this the beginning of the end, or at least a point closer to the end of the Irish ban on abortion?




posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by youdidntseeme
 


It was so obvious this was going to happen; this from 2009:


Voters in Ireland on October 2 accepted the Lisbon Treaty after they were given guarantees that the nation’s pro-life laws would be protected. However, as Susan Yoshihara of the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute notes, those guarantees are not ironclad.

"While some pro-life and pro-family voices hail the guarantees as a step forward, many analysts argue that the nature and extent of those guarantees are far from certain," she writes in CFAM’s Friday Fax publication.

Yoshihara notes Irish citizens voted 67% to 33% to adopt the Treaty of Lisbon after rejecting it only a year ago amidst fears about the erosion of national sovereignty on social issues.

She and other pro-life advocates worry the “yes” vote "will eventually lead to intense pressure on Ireland from the European Union (EU) to liberalize its laws and policies on abortion."


www.lifenews.com...

What's next? The Irish Defence Force becomes part of aggressive EU/American policy?



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


What you link to seems to tell me that they were trying to strengthen anti abortion policy, in fact they voted to maintain the status quo by a 2/3 vote.

I think if left up to the Irish citizens, the anti abortion stance would not be changed, however being a member state to the EU may force the issue in another direction.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by youdidntseeme
 


The problem with Ireland abortion laws is that abortion are still been in the raise, no matter the law women will travel by the thousands to England to get their abortions.

So actually banning abortions in the country is not stopping women from having them somewhere else.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


This is all new to me. I admit I am not very familiar with laws outside of the US and I appreciate this opportunity to learn about what surely is a touchy issue across the pond.

Myself, I happen to be pro-life, but I am also of the ilk that I am not going to push my personal beliefs on someone else. I know plenty of women here in the US who have had abortions, and although I may not have made the same choice, I respect their choice to do what they want with their own body.

I am a man though, so I know that my opinion on the matter lacks a personal experience.

Star for you.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by youdidntseeme
 


Thanks, in my case I am a women and pro choice,

This are the numbers on the current situation with Ireland's abortion.


Northern Ireland's record abortion figures shock

A record number of women from Northern Ireland are opting to go to England and Wales to terminate a pregnancy, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal today.

Figures released by Health Minister Michael McGimpsey show that there were 1,343 abortions carried out in England and Wales where the woman gave a home address in Northern Ireland in 2007 — the majority of which would be regarded as illegal here.

According to the Department of Health statistics, 6,400 abortions were performed on women from Northern Ireland in hospitals in England and Wales between 2003 and 2007.

The latest figure was a rise of 48 on that for the overall 2006 tally while 179 more women went for abortions in 2007 compared to 2005.


Read more: www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...

The thing is that this is only those women that goes to England is still more so that goes to other countries like Scotland.

This is a prime example of what happen when abortion is ban in a country, abortions has not gotten down or have been eliminated at all women just goes out of the country to have abortions.

Then what will happen in the US if abortions are banned by states, well those states that still support abortion will become very busy, then if abortion is ban at federal level, well Mexico will become the mecca for abortions.

Still clandestine abortion will flourish and more women will die from complications.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


It's all an issue of sovereignty...

If the Irish people want a law that every person is required to own a Cactus then it should be a law.

If the Irish people don't want abortions in Ireland then there should be no abortions there...

You can't really argue with that.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by marg6043
 


It's all an issue of sovereignty...

If the Irish people want a law that every person is required to own a Cactus then it should be a law.

If the Irish people don't want abortions in Ireland then there should be no abortions there...

You can't really argue with that.


Only its hard to pin down exactly what the people want popularly and what the people want politically. leaving out the obvious Catholic overtones.

In an Irish Examiner article dated Jan 21 2010, it was reported that 60% of those polled in the 18-35 year old range were in favor of legalizing the practice
source

10% of those polled have either had an abortion or been the partner of a woman who had an abortion.
75% of women polled believed that the morning aftwer pill should be available as an over the counter remedy to an unplanned pregnancy.

To say that the people of the Republic of Ireland do not want abortion legalized may not be entirely accurate.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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I'm against abortion in most cases, and I don't think we should be forced to change by the European ruling. I think another abortion referendum would fail again. Having said that, the morning after pill should be made easier to get.
The unborn child is given a right to life in the Irish Constitution I believe, a European Ruling shouldn't be allowed to change this, especially if we're going to be facing declining population in the future.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by DaMod
 


And like the poster after you said, is a matter of politics manipulation by religious groups.

Still the main issue remains, abortions in Ireland has been banned, still women in Ireland goes out of the country to have them and is becoming record numbers.

So the truth is that banning abortions in Ireland has not stop women from having them.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:47 AM
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This just reiterates how I feel about abortion: it will never end. We should just finally accept that it's the females choice! It's her body, her nine months, her pain in labor. Let the women decide. I am in no way, shape, or form God therefore it's not my job to tell you what's right and what's wrong.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
I am in no way, shape, or form God therefore it's not my job to tell you what's right and what's wrong.


All laws revolve around "what is right and what is wrong" I don't understand people who apply their distaste for such judgements only to certain laws. Would you also say, "I am in no way, shape or form God therefore it's not my job to tell you not to... discriminate based on race, steal, sell drugs etc. etc. (?)"

edit on 17-12-2010 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


If you ask me I believe that the Irish law wont last very much longer. This case is going to bring the issue back into the public spectrum (if its not already, like I said I amin the US and not too familiar with the day to day Irish news).

I am sure that there is some info somewhere on the number of Irish citizens that get abortions in England, Scotland or Wales or elsewhere. Those numbers will be the indication of the true level of Irish elective abortions.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


Uh, damn right its not my job to judge on anything. I worry about the well being of my family, thats enough for me. If people stopped worrying about others so much maybe we could all take care of.....wait.....here it comes......OURSELVES.

If you want to be racist, I wont support your business. Im not going to the government to say, MAKE A LAW. As a black man, I agree with Rand Paul when he said affirmative action was wrong. It was! I dont want to be hired because by LAW you have to hire black people. Like I said, worry about YOURSELF and the rest will fall into place. A woman's body is HER body, not mine.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
reply to post by SevenBeans
 


. Like I said, worry about YOURSELF and the rest will fall into place. A woman's body is HER body, not mine.


Just tp play devil's advocate here,

Do you think that a man who is the father of said child should have a part in the decision making process before the abortion procedure actually takes place?

or is it still the woman's decision entirely?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
Uh, damn right its not my job to judge on anything. I worry about the well being of my family, thats enough for me. If people stopped worrying about others so much maybe we could all take care of.....wait.....here it comes......OURSELVES.


Sorry, to me that is just intellectually lazy. It is your job, as a parent and as a citizen, to make judgements about what is responsible vs. irresponsible behavior. Don't you think many laws (ie. judgements) help to protect the well-being of your family?


Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
If you want to be racist, I wont support your business. Im not going to the government to say, MAKE A LAW. As a black man, I agree with Rand Paul when he said affirmative action was wrong. It was! I dont want to be hired because by LAW you have to hire black people. Like I said, worry about YOURSELF and the rest will fall into place.


I agree with that particular example, but again, all laws are based on judging something to be good or bad etc. etc. You can disagree with a particular law w/o throwing your hands up and saying "I'm not God so I can't make any judgements about any kind of behavior." Do you use the same logic regarding all laws? Do you say, "I'm not God so if you want to sell crack, steal toys from charities, make child porn etc. etc. oh well I'm just gonna worry about myself?"
edit on 17-12-2010 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


So I'm "intellectually lazy"? That's quite funny to me. I just happen to believe in carrying your own weight. Natural selection isn't based off morality. We don't hold ourselves to the same standards so who am I to judge what YOU do?

And don't make judgements into laws:

A judgement is:

is the evaluation of evidence in the making of a decision.


&

A law is:

a system of rules, usually enforced through a set of institutions




Our judgements arent the same, but our laws are. BIG difference.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by newBodyoldSoul
So I'm "intellectually lazy"? That's quite funny to me. I just happen to believe in carrying your own weight. Natural selection isn't based off morality. We don't hold ourselves to the same standards so who am I to judge what YOU do?


I also believe in "carrying your own weight" but fail to see how that is incompatible with the idea that we have an obligation as citizens, parents etc. etc. to make judgements about what is responsible/irresponsible behavior and arguing for a legal system that is consistent with those judgements.

I know what a judgement is and I know what a law is, I'm not sure why you provided the definitions.

Do you use the same logic regarding all laws or just abortion? Do you say, "I'm not God so if you want to sell crack, steal toys from charities, make child porn etc. etc. oh well I'm just gonna worry about myself?"
edit on 17-12-2010 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by youdidntseeme
 


I think that as long as the government in Ireland is influenced by religious rights, the law will stay, now abortions will keep escalating across the borders and unless the government make it a crime to seek abortions outside Ireland if you are a born citizens is not way the abortions will stop.

Where is a will is a way, abortions are as old as human kind so they are here to stay, as long as human are in this earth.


edit on 17-12-2010 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by youdidntseeme
 


I will answer that one from a stand point of a women's view, because I am older and wiser I believe that a willing partner and future father should be part of the decision making of keeping and unwanted pregnancy (by the mother).

Now, depending the willingness of the mother to be, that is when the "words personal choice" comes into place, a women no always have to tell that she is pregnant and terminating a pregnancy.



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