Salutations to all....this is my first post on this forum but I have been an avid reader of posts for quite some time. Many of the threads I read merely for amusement, such is the lunacy underpinning the arguments.....others are genuinely interesting and resonate with beliefs I have regarding the cosmos and the likelihood that we are far from alone in the universe. I want to believe that there is magic in the world we live in...that there are hidden discoveries that could change our perceptions of everything we thought we knew. However, I am continually frustrated by the absolute paucity of tangible evidence that could verify even the most innocuous of claims.

My post considers the case of apparent anthropogenically constructed craft capable of antigravitational flight at hypersonic speeds. In this scenario it's often assumed that such technology was reverse engineered from fallen extraterrestrial saucers or such like. If such powerful and revolutionary machinery exists then surely that would make all current space exploration an elaborate and costly hoax perpetuated by not only the American government but every other developed nation in the world as well. I say this because if there is any truth to the rumours that secret agencies have such resources at their disposal it seems unlikely that the sophisticated intelligence of the world's strongest forces wouldn't have some inkling of its existence. This would suggest the presence of a convoluted multilateral agreement to plead ignorance and mislead the public into thinking that our technology is more archaic than is in fact the case. This would be deceit of biblical proportions....perhaps the biggest lie ever perpetuated by humanity....yet man is flawed and controlling those with knowledge is an exigent if not impossible task. This leads me to question the feasibility of so many personnel managing to restrain themselves from telling the truth for so many decades. Is their indoctrination so elaborate and potent that they are but drones ensalved by dark puppeteers? It seems unlikely to me that not even one person has managed to isolate and present a shred of physical proof - that's beyond repute - to the world's media. All of this without even considering the case of NASA and other space programmes. If we already have the means to travel throughout the solar system with artificial gravity - hence counteracting a principal issue that complicates space travel - then every space project is essentially a pointless smokescreen. Can organisations like NASA - employing some of the world's greatest minds - really be oblivious to the activities and successes of black military projects? Or are they complicit in the scam? It just seems a bit preposterous. That said, one thing I must concede is that it appears strange that we are still relying on rocket power propulsion that was developed during the second world war. Some 70 years later we haven't developed something more revelutionary....just tweaked efficiencies out of existing tech. Some will argue that physics is the culprit....acting to prevent manipulation of gravity, etc, but given the speed of technological advancement during the past 100 years and the innovative genius that scientists tend to spawn, I find it surprising that progress hasn't been made.....or has it? Fundamentally, the purpose of this missive is to canvass your opinions on this supposed shroud of secrecy; specifically, to attain a consensus on whether people truly believe that mankind, with its inherently untrustworthiness, is capable of hiding anything of such magnitude (alien encounters and technologies, artificial structures on over planetary bodies, ancient artifacts that reveal marvels that would be considered paranormal, etc).

For answering your own question you have posed, simply ask yourself why the US space shuttle is due for only two remaining missions and we have had nothing definite in line to replace it, let alone at the ready.

If you still need to convince yourself if we have these exotic technologies, ask yourself what are all of these triangle reports about that have surfaced in the last couple of decades. I can image that you can come to some conclusion that you can accept because the simple joining of different areas of data virtually proves that we have this wonderous technology.

It also explains why we can be developing this incredible jet fighter, the F-35, and immediately start taking bids from other countries for it!!! Such things as these new jets, no matter how advanced they are, are nothing but "make work" projects for many of our standard aircraft industries. That keeps them viable with their older technologies as we slowly transition to the newer designs. Plus all of our competition must try to copy the jets, at the least, while they also are frantic to develop the real stuff we have.

Basiscally, jet planes and rockets are yesterday's technology (as are all manner of prior warfare using airplanes and ships). The dilemma for our PTB is they must keep that amazing advancement in air travel secret because it originally came via understanding the workings of alien UFOs. And they aren't really to open that box yet.

I suspect it will take a major war, public crash of an alien UFO, a governmental disclosure (which I doubt) or the development by another country of that same type of locomotion for these new developments to break out of the Skunk Works.

You will note that while there are thousands of public citizen reports of triangles, and that the MSM will discuss a bit of the sightings, you won't find any org dedicated to the aircraft industry to touch the topic. That includes Jane's, the most respected outfit in the field. Ask yourself why?

Once you decide that we do have such equipment, you may venture to wonder if we have used it beyond Earth's atmosphere. I would suggest that a wild guess into that direction would not be wrong.

Greetings, Sir. I am somewhat new here myself and have only started to post very recently.

This is a subject of some interest to me, and I'm hoping to get other people's insights into this. The concept you're describing is known as a "breakaway civilization," and you may be interested in knowing that Richard Dolan has followed it to his own rather bizarre (I think) conclusions. (I'm not a Richard Dolan fan.)

A good place to start might be the September 2009 "Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference" Richard Dolan interview transcript. You can Google it; it's not hard to find. There's also the Red Ice Creations (dot com) Alfred Webre discussion concerning "The War between Dark Controlling Forces and Benevolent Higher Dimensional Beings, and Humanity is Lodged Right in the Middle...." (Moon Bases, Time Travel, Teleportation, Aliens, Genetic Alteration, and Anti-Gravity Spacecraft till you could just squirm.)

As you can probably tell, I'm not that devoted a believer, simply because any breakaway civilization with technology that advanced certainly wouldn't need the paltry black-budget sums we might provide. You'd think they'd have access to gold, diamonds, precious gems, and any other sources of riches the solar system (and arbuably beyond) might provide.

On the other hand, I believe that certain advanced technologies exist; how advanced and of what nature I'm most curious to learn. I do believe that the means exist, and the level of secrecy is plausible (not because of the ability of governments to keep those secrets, but because the private-sector military-industrial complex is superbly capable of that kind of secret-keeping).

Anyway, let's get some discussion on this, shall we?

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Most of the issues that draw the majority of us here fall prey to that very question. From NWO to UFO--could that high a degree of conspiracy & the efficiency necessary to keep such secrets under wraps be accomplished by fallible & egotistical man? I don't think so.

Yet looking around it does seem pretty evident that a control system with an agenda is at work in the world. Obvious even. One that doesn't foster any love for us.

So I have come to the conclusion that yes; conspiracy abounds and secrets are kept...but its management can only be...ahem...supernatural in its essence

nevermind, finger fumbleage