Thanks for the thread. I suppose if I was conducting a hugely expensive genealogy study I'd want it safe from a Nuclear blast or those jerks with
sunglasses and suits trying to confiscate anything.
Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why? , page 1
Topic started on 13-12-2010 @ 05:38 AM by Alethea
Why does this seem to be the mission and focus of the Mormon religion to collect information on genealogies? What is it's purpose to hold these
records? Does the Mormon database have more information on your family history than you yourself have?
Why all the secrecy? Why would these vaults containing such information be locked away with such excessive security? Why would these records need to be buried 600 feet into a granite mountain with a 14 ton door? By comparison, the door of the Ft. Knox bullion depository is 22 tons. What is the real mission of this organization that disguises itself as a religion?
How did this organization come to have unrestricted access to all of the census records? Who is really in charge of the census? What happened to confidentiality? Strange, too, how the recent census does not ask for your name and yet all the previous census records put together the names with the data.
I also came across an interesting comment in another document which states that one day a little known, obscure doctrine will be uncovered from the archives of the Mormon church in Salt Lake City which will reveal information regarding our previous lives in the First Estate.
Well, folks, I have nothing but questions. Maybe some of you have answers or speculations on what this all means.
They’ve got a vault carved into the solid granite of a mountain 20 miles southeast of Salt Lake City, Utah, where they store information about the births, marriages and deaths of over 2 billion people, the largest single database on the details of the human race in the world. Buried 600 feet into the mountain, protected by two nine-ton and one 14-ton doors built to withstand a nuclear blast, the Granite Mountain Vault isn’t going anywhere soon. Five billion documents are stored on 1 ½ million rolls of microfilm and 1 ½ million microfiche. Twenty-five thousand volunteers are currently working to scan and index all of these documents as well as put them on the Internet so that one day soon you can access all of this data while sitting in your kitchen in your slippers with a notebook computer on your lap.
www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com...
Why all the secrecy? Why would these vaults containing such information be locked away with such excessive security? Why would these records need to be buried 600 feet into a granite mountain with a 14 ton door? By comparison, the door of the Ft. Knox bullion depository is 22 tons. What is the real mission of this organization that disguises itself as a religion?
Ancestry.com, a subscription-based service started by members of the LDS church, has 900,000 subscribers, and is growing. Ancestry put millions of documents online, including five billion names. They have census records for all of the US from the past 200 years, birth, marriage and death records, and more. In May of 2007, they dumped the military records of all of the soldiers who fought in all of the US wars, 90 million of them, online.
www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com...
How did this organization come to have unrestricted access to all of the census records? Who is really in charge of the census? What happened to confidentiality? Strange, too, how the recent census does not ask for your name and yet all the previous census records put together the names with the data.
I also came across an interesting comment in another document which states that one day a little known, obscure doctrine will be uncovered from the archives of the Mormon church in Salt Lake City which will reveal information regarding our previous lives in the First Estate.
Well, folks, I have nothing but questions. Maybe some of you have answers or speculations on what this all means.
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:09 AM by nerbot
Originally posted by Alethea
But why would it be tucked away instead of openly released to people like through a public library? Publications that could have been updated with new volumes each year? Why would they collect information on the general public and not make it available publicly?
Ancestry.com, a subscription-based service started by members of the LDS church, has 900,000 subscribers, and is growing. Ancestry put millions of documents online, including five billion names. They have census records for all of the US from the past 200 years, birth, marriage and death records, and more. In May of 2007, they dumped the military records of all of the soldiers who fought in all of the US wars, 90 million of them, online.
source
Openly released I'd say.
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:25 AM by Alethea
Originally posted by nerbot
source
Openly released I'd say.
No, it's not "openly released" to the public. It is by subscription only. It is a for profit commercial venture using records such as census which was coerced from our relatives by mandates and in which confidentiality was implied.
Who made deals with this organization to give them information about the public which has been privatized?
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:26 AM by PuterMan
reply to post by Alethea
No conspiracy here. One of the requirements of being a member of the Church is I understand being able to quote 5 (maybe 4) generations back of your family history. (One of my ancestors was an elder of the Church)
The LDS data is freely available on line via Family Search and many other Genealogy site have access to the data.
One of the real benefits from the point of view of research in the UK and Ireland is that the Bishops Transcripts are for the most part found in the LDS records and these are not easy to get at by other methods. If you are researching your family using LDS records be aware that there are two kinds of entry.
(1) Records submitted by LDS members. These are often correct, but can also be wildly incorrect and regrettably in some cases completely fictitious. More than one member can submit near identical records, but which differ in detail such as the exact year etc. I tend to ignore record marked thus.
(2) Records extracted from the locality. These are record from Bishops transcripts and I believe in many cases from direct parish records. These will always be accurate but don't forget that name changes and transcription errors can lead you up the wrong path. In the earlier records many names were entered as phonetic variants and this can cause some problems. In some areas (notably Gloucester in the UK) the LDS were not permitted access to the transcripts so this area is sparse on LDS records.
I am glad they keep these records in a bunker (I knew that by the way). Many of them are irreplaceable and they should be preserved so.
No conspiracy here. One of the requirements of being a member of the Church is I understand being able to quote 5 (maybe 4) generations back of your family history. (One of my ancestors was an elder of the Church)
The LDS data is freely available on line via Family Search and many other Genealogy site have access to the data.
One of the real benefits from the point of view of research in the UK and Ireland is that the Bishops Transcripts are for the most part found in the LDS records and these are not easy to get at by other methods. If you are researching your family using LDS records be aware that there are two kinds of entry.
(1) Records submitted by LDS members. These are often correct, but can also be wildly incorrect and regrettably in some cases completely fictitious. More than one member can submit near identical records, but which differ in detail such as the exact year etc. I tend to ignore record marked thus.
(2) Records extracted from the locality. These are record from Bishops transcripts and I believe in many cases from direct parish records. These will always be accurate but don't forget that name changes and transcription errors can lead you up the wrong path. In the earlier records many names were entered as phonetic variants and this can cause some problems. In some areas (notably Gloucester in the UK) the LDS were not permitted access to the transcripts so this area is sparse on LDS records.
I am glad they keep these records in a bunker (I knew that by the way). Many of them are irreplaceable and they should be preserved so.
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:28 AM by cazzy2211
reply to post by thoughtsfull
I don't know the ratio between Americans and the rest of the world but they certainly had plenty of my English, Irish and Scottish ancestors on there.
I don't know the ratio between Americans and the rest of the world but they certainly had plenty of my English, Irish and Scottish ancestors on there.
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:30 AM by PuterMan
reply to post by Alethea
Yes it is see my previous post. The census is the 1885 census and is a very minor part of the records. As I said the bulk of the information comes from parish registers and as such IS public information so stop being so paranoid. This just makes it much easier rather than having to trek round huge distances, even to different countries, so I for one am very grateful.
No, it's not "openly released" to the public. It is by subscription only. It is a for profit commercial venture using records such as census which was coerced from our relatives by mandates and in which confidentiality was implied.
Yes it is see my previous post. The census is the 1885 census and is a very minor part of the records. As I said the bulk of the information comes from parish registers and as such IS public information so stop being so paranoid. This just makes it much easier rather than having to trek round huge distances, even to different countries, so I for one am very grateful.
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:44 AM by thoughtsfull
Originally posted by cazzy2211
reply to post by thoughtsfull
I don't know the ratio between Americans and the rest of the world but they certainly had plenty of my English, Irish and Scottish ancestors on there.
Cool, thanks for that
I didn't know any of this, my relatives in the US are deeply interested in genealogy of their side (Cherokee/German) but
thankfully my side (Saxon) have kept a note of themselves running back about 1,000 years, hence why I've never used these sites, and why this is
fascinating Most of those early links tho where provided by the outcome of the legal system (generally charges of being drunk and naughty) and I have to admit that I have always wondered if places like LDS have access to and use the naughty records in tracking down bloodlines.
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 06:55 AM by PuterMan
reply to post by thoughtsfull
You probably have no idea how lucky you are! That is a rare thing to have a maintained family history over that period of time. Most people find it difficult to go back very far before the registration requirements began in July 1837, and depend on parish records and of course the LDS for futher information.
To get back to the 1600s using the parish records and LDS is rare, to have the gift of 1000 years is simple incredible. Are you Royalty by any chance?
In the 12 years I have been using the LDS I have never ONCE been asked for my email address and I continue to use the service without let or hinderance so to speak.
but thankfully my side (Saxon) have kept a note of themselves running back about 1,000 years
You probably have no idea how lucky you are! That is a rare thing to have a maintained family history over that period of time. Most people find it difficult to go back very far before the registration requirements began in July 1837, and depend on parish records and of course the LDS for futher information.
To get back to the 1600s using the parish records and LDS is rare, to have the gift of 1000 years is simple incredible. Are you Royalty by any chance?
Genealogy is perhaps quite lucrative, and I suspect gives them a huge number of email contacts in today's digital age, that is a very valuable commodity.
In the 12 years I have been using the LDS I have never ONCE been asked for my email address and I continue to use the service without let or hinderance so to speak.
edit on 13/12/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 13-12-2010 @ 07:05 AM by stars15k
reply to post by Alethea
You need to research a bit more. It is in a mountain, to be kept safe for all of time.
We do allow access from almost any Church building in the nation (I'm US, and know of the US facts). There is a Geneological library with microfilm readers, microfiche readers, and computers linked to the internet site. You look it up and can order a microfilm of records not yet available online. It's not a secret, people just don't think to ask. The LDS geneology site is familysearch.org.
The US census records are public information, but held for a long period of time before general release. I think they are not available for 50 years (or more). Confidentiality for something 50 years old or older? Not a problem with most people. It's pretty amazing how many questions were asked back then; it makes the census today look absolutely generic.
The LDS Geneology Library is the largest in the world. I live in Fort Wayne, IN where our Public Library has an entire geneologist section, at one time it was the second largest library for access (I'm not certain of the current status). They provide access to the same records, as would any other non-LDS library. Millions of non-LDS people do their geneology. It's fascinating what you learn. The website "Ancestry.com" is a private company, used by LDS and non-LDS alike, started by LDS members, but not run by the LDS church.
Why do we do it? Because we believe that families are forever. We get to know our ancestors and provide them a way to get the earthly things they did not have a chance to get, like water baptism. Everything we do for our ancestors and our future family is done in our Temples, a really sacred place. Because it is sacred to us, we do not openly talk about it; if you did it yourself, you would understand. I was married in a Temple and am still happy with the same man after 30 years.
As to your comment
We are a religion. We are Christian. We are not disguised. Our real mission is to teach others the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We have missionaries in the field to do this. We also have missionaries (many times retired couples) who work in the Geneology Library as well.
Your paranoia is silly. You are welcome into our libraries or our churches anytime. Since you are not a believer, you would not be allowed access into our Temples. Since you aren't a believer, that really shouldn't bother you. I've been to Catholic mass and have been told I could not take Communion which is really the same thing. Most churches have somethings that are special to them, that they do not take lightly and that they hold sacred. It's one of the reasons there are so many different denominations.
We do believe in latter-day prophecies, but talk of "obscure doctrine" has been declared many times with no basis. Again, if you are not a believer, what we believe should not bother you. No one is forced to join our Church. My husband and I both were raised Lutheran and joined the Church after talking to missionaries while in our late teens. My son was raised LDS, and now belongs to a Pentecostal church. My DIL believes we are not Christian. It makes for interesting holidays.
You need to research a bit more. It is in a mountain, to be kept safe for all of time.
We do allow access from almost any Church building in the nation (I'm US, and know of the US facts). There is a Geneological library with microfilm readers, microfiche readers, and computers linked to the internet site. You look it up and can order a microfilm of records not yet available online. It's not a secret, people just don't think to ask. The LDS geneology site is familysearch.org.
The US census records are public information, but held for a long period of time before general release. I think they are not available for 50 years (or more). Confidentiality for something 50 years old or older? Not a problem with most people. It's pretty amazing how many questions were asked back then; it makes the census today look absolutely generic.
The LDS Geneology Library is the largest in the world. I live in Fort Wayne, IN where our Public Library has an entire geneologist section, at one time it was the second largest library for access (I'm not certain of the current status). They provide access to the same records, as would any other non-LDS library. Millions of non-LDS people do their geneology. It's fascinating what you learn. The website "Ancestry.com" is a private company, used by LDS and non-LDS alike, started by LDS members, but not run by the LDS church.
Why do we do it? Because we believe that families are forever. We get to know our ancestors and provide them a way to get the earthly things they did not have a chance to get, like water baptism. Everything we do for our ancestors and our future family is done in our Temples, a really sacred place. Because it is sacred to us, we do not openly talk about it; if you did it yourself, you would understand. I was married in a Temple and am still happy with the same man after 30 years.
As to your comment
What is the real mission of this organization that disguises itself as a religion?
We are a religion. We are Christian. We are not disguised. Our real mission is to teach others the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We have missionaries in the field to do this. We also have missionaries (many times retired couples) who work in the Geneology Library as well.
Your paranoia is silly. You are welcome into our libraries or our churches anytime. Since you are not a believer, you would not be allowed access into our Temples. Since you aren't a believer, that really shouldn't bother you. I've been to Catholic mass and have been told I could not take Communion which is really the same thing. Most churches have somethings that are special to them, that they do not take lightly and that they hold sacred. It's one of the reasons there are so many different denominations.
We do believe in latter-day prophecies, but talk of "obscure doctrine" has been declared many times with no basis. Again, if you are not a believer, what we believe should not bother you. No one is forced to join our Church. My husband and I both were raised Lutheran and joined the Church after talking to missionaries while in our late teens. My son was raised LDS, and now belongs to a Pentecostal church. My DIL believes we are not Christian. It makes for interesting holidays.
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