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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Southern Guardian
What has the trickle down tax cuts done for us? Nothing really, aside from benefitting the wealthy and our jobs steadily being shifted off overseas.
Well, we have to ask ourselves who spends money more productively - the government or private investors?
Then we must ask ourselves what constitutes the creation of wealth. Is the government capable of creating new wealth?
What makes society richer as a whole?
What differentiates America from Zimbabwe?
If Zimbabwe duplicated every single US law, program, and bureaucracy - would their people be able to live at our same standard of living over night?
edit on 12-12-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)
Since the 1980's we have cut the corporate tax rate from 70% to 35%, we have spent more than $2 trillion on tax cuts for the wealthy since that period and the result? Our debt has dramatically increased since then, Our jobs have been shipped overseas, our GDP growth has not been as high as it was before the 80's. Yet your still insisting?
Bosses? This example is not representitive of the entire top 5% and those of the business owners in this country.
There are many businesses shifting jobs overseas, many businesses playing around with economy, we saw what the banks did over the last few years.
You are essentially arguing that all businesses and business owners are in our best interests which is absolutely not true.
We should reward businesses for employing americans, for putting money back into the economy, we should not be rewarding every single wealthy person in this country because we assume all of them are putting back into this economy.
Originally posted by Aim64C
This concept is lost when you have control of the printing press and idiots like Pelosi - who think printing gobs of money stimulates the economy and creates jobs.
Jobs are going overseas because it doesn't make sense to pay someone $7.25/hour to make spoons. America is beyond such menial industrial tasks.
The problem with your argument is that everyone who is wealthy contributes to our economy. Even people who are "filthy rich" and "hoard" their money in a bank account contribute to economic development. Their money being in a bank account allows banks to loan money at lower interest rates to individuals and businesses. They, effectively, provide a service.
Originally posted by mnemeth1
Well, we have to ask ourselves who spends money more productively - the government or private investors?
Originally posted by Aim64C
Our debt is a problem of government spending. Period. It is not the fault of businesses.
Jobs are going overseas because it doesn't make sense to pay someone $7.25/hour to make spoons.
Increasing minimum wage has forced a lot of our labor jobs overseas
Fractional Reserve Banking is a government-endorsed practice.
even if an industry employs people for its own selfish reasons - the end result is economic stimulation.
This is selective taxation and not permitted under the Constitution.
The problem with your argument is that everyone who is wealthy contributes to our economy.
I am also finding it humorous how you say we "spend" on tax cuts. Does the government spend 80% of my revenue as a tax cut? That's an interesting perspective.
This is not just about debt. This is about the increasing gap between the wealthy and the poor, this is about the increasing loss of jobs overseas. I fail to see what trickle down economics did for this country again? Can you name something positive?
Exactly, it doesnt. So why the hell do we continue giving the bulk of these tax cuts to businesses and individuals who continue to shift these jobs overseas? Please explain.
How significantly has minimum wage increased over the years? No that much by my accounts.
Are you suggesting we not have a minimum wage at all to compete with the likes of India?
Or is it tough luck. If it's "tough luck" then I fail to see how you expect people to agree with you on trickle down economics?
We cut taxes mostly for the wealthy, they shift jobs and labour overseas, and thats the way it outta be? Shoot.
"Private investors" ace. Nobody is forcing them to speculate, nobody is forcing them to gamble. They make their own choices, they spend their tax cuts accordingly. "Government endorsed" is a weak excuse for the actions of speculators and investors, unless you are to insist that the government is forcing them to do so. Did the government tell all those investors what to do over the last 30 years? I don't think so.
Yep, which lasts for a very brief period before it all goes down again, whether you keep the tax cuts in place or not. We saw this in the 80's when the highs were very brief then low again, we saw this in the 90's. Money is gambled away, money is invested toward foreign markets. Little trickles down to the little guy for the future. Much like a herion or meth addict you know? That is what this system is to me.
A man who buys a brand new 2011 Mustang from a Ford dealer after successfully investing in a Thailand factory (which took over 40 american jobs) is not something I see as "contribution" to this country. But yes, he did contribute back into this country technically, I get you.
If cutting taxes does not cost then cutting taxes out period should not cost by logic, now if you can explain to me a country without taxes, I'm all ears. Sounds rather wonderful.
Originally posted by Aim64C
Most of the individuals affected by these tax cuts are small business owners - not corporate giants.
Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by Southern Guardian
and why are they shipping jobs overseas????? because taxes are to high here. hate to brake it to yaedit on 9-12-2010 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
The economist John Kenneth Galbraith noted that "trickle-down economics" had been tried before in the United States in the 1890s under the name "horse and sparrow theory."
'If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.'" Galbraith claimed that the horse and sparrow theory was partly to blame for the Panic of 1896. During this period, in his Cross of Gold speech, Democrat William Jennings Bryan said:
"There are those who believe that, if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests up on them."
Originally posted by links234
Originally posted by Aim64C
Most of the individuals affected by these tax cuts are small business owners - not corporate giants.
Fundamentally incorrect in that the tax cuts were for individuals, not business'. The taxes, if let expire, would raise on individuals making more than $250,000/year. Not business' that make that.
One of the advantages of a sole proprietorship is its simplicity. You do not separate taxes for your business, you simply report all of your business income and losses on your personal income tax return.
Fundamentally incorrect in that the tax cuts were for individuals, not business'. The taxes, if let expire, would raise on individuals making more than $250,000/year. Not business' that make that.
History has proven that Trickle Down Economics does not work. It never has...Anyone realize that these "Bush era tax-cuts" have been in effect before and during the entire "Great Reccession" we are trying to escape from right now? How did they help?
Cuz as I see it...not only did the wealthiest 2% get tax breaks...but when Americans ran out of money to give them, they asked the Gov. to step in and take our money directly and give it to them...in the form of BILLIONS in bailouts without conditions.
And now they are offended by not getting tax breaks???
Trickle down economics has been known to be a fraud for over a hundred years...
Bottom line...a prosperous middle class...the consumers consuming...will be better for the wealthiest 2% in the long run. They will get a smaller percentage of a much greater money flow.
What is occuring now is just hoarding and panic amongst the wealthy. The want all the money they can get and they will invest it in reliable foriegn interests like China and Middle East Energy conglomerates. The two hottest investment markets for wealthy Americans right now.
They need to suck it up and invest in the country that gave them wealth, both through traditional means and taxpayer bailouts.
They won't do that unless forced. We can't rely on thier sense of honor, duty or patriotism.
We were forced to give them Billions of our money when they "needed" it. Letting a tax break expire to return the slightest trickle of that wealth back to the middle class amidst a financial crisis is not too much to ask for.
The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.
In Figure 8 when all federal, state and local government spending and taxes are
accounted for, the bottom three quintiles of income receive on average more dollars of
government spending than they pay in total taxes. In contrast, households in the top two
quintiles pay more in total taxes than they receive in government spending. Households
in the bottom quintile receive an average of $31,185 more in government spending than
they pay in taxes, while households in the top quintile pay $48,449 more in taxes than
they receive in government spending.
In the aggregate, households in the top two income quintiles pay roughly $1.031 trillion
more in total taxes than they receive in government spending. In contrast, households in
the bottom three quintiles receive roughly $1.527 trillion more in government spending
than they pay in total taxes. The difference between the two figures of approximately
$496 billion represents the amount that federal, state and local government spending
exceeded tax revenues in Calendar Year 2004. Depending on what assumption is made
about which households receive the most non-tax-revenue-financed government
spending, between roughly $1.031 trillion and $1.527 trillion of fiscal resources were
redistributed downward from the two highest-income quintiles to the three lowest-income
quintiles through federal, state and local tax and spending policy in 2004.27
And believe it or not...A financially solvent middle class is good for the wealthiest 2% as well as everyone else.
In a sole proprietorship, you can take business deductions just like with other forms of business. This means that you can deduct things such as operating expenses and advertising, as well as business-related travel and entertainment (though be very careful to ensure it really is business-related). Start-up costs, such as buying business equipment, can also typically be deducted.