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Finally, any 'sole proprietor' with more than 50 employees might as well be a tyrant. Both for hoarding the profits and cutting out their employees. Don't give me this argument, "Oh he's only making $250,000 from owning his business!" Only making...only making?! Only ripping off his employees and perpetuating his wealth, but that's the 'trickle down' part, right? As long as the wealthy business owner is doing well, it will stifle their greed and they'll be more apt to share that wealth voluntarily.
Fourth, Supply-Side Economics, which Trickle Down Economics is loosely built upon operates under the assumption of a Free Market. My own guesstamation is that our economy rides a 5-10% Free Market while the other 90-95% is State Controlled (either via taxes, regulation or law).
That last point really throws a wrench in any economic theory based upon the Free Markets. They are not. The State controls large swaths of it either directly or by proxy.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- An all-but-overlooked provision of the health reform law is threatening to swamp U.S. businesses with a flood of new tax paperwork.
Section 9006 of the health care bill -- just a few lines buried in the 2,409-page document -- mandates that beginning in 2012 all companies will have to issue 1099 tax forms not just to contract workers but to any individual or corporation from which they buy more than $600 in goods or services in a tax year.
The stealth change radically alters the nature of 1099s and means businesses will have to issue millions of new tax documents each year.
Right now, the IRS Form 1099 is used to document income for individual workers other than wages and salaries....
But under the new rules, if a freelance designer buys a new iMac from the Apple Store, they'll have to send Apple a 1099. A laundromat that buys soap each week from a local distributor will have to send the supplier a 1099 at the end of the year tallying up their purchases.
The bill makes two key changes to how 1099s are used. First, it expands their scope by using them to track payments not only for services but also for tangible goods. Plus, it requires that 1099s be issued not just to individuals, but also to corporations.
Taken together, the two seemingly small changes will require millions of additional forms to be sent out.
"It's a pretty heavy administrative burden," particularly for small businesses without large in-house accounting staffs, says Bill Rys, tax counsel for the National Federation of Independent Businesses....
money.cnn.com...
According to Dun & Bradstreet reports, "Businesses with fewer than 20 employees have only a 37% chance of surviving four years (of business) and only a 9% chance of surviving 10 years." Restaurants only have a 20% chance of surviving 2 years. Of these failed business, only 10% of them close involuntarily due to bankruptcy and the remaining 90% close because the business was not successful, did not provide the level of income desired or was too much work for their efforts... The failure rate for new businesses seems to be around 70% to 80% in the first year and only about half of those who survive the first year will remain in business the next five years. www.moyak.com...
Originally posted by Aim64C
History has proven that Trickle Down Economics does not work. It never has...Anyone realize that these "Bush era tax-cuts" have been in effect before and during the entire "Great Reccession" we are trying to escape from right now? How did they help?
The question should be "How did they hurt?"
The greater the disparity in wealth between the very rich and everyone else, the more unstable an economy becomes.
Our nation has now created a larger gap in the distribution of wealth than the massive chasm that helped fuel the Great Depression. In 1928, one year before the global economic collapse, the wealthiest .001% of the U.S. population owned 892 times more than 90% of the nation’s citizens.
Today, the top .001% of the U.S. population owns 976 times more than the entire bottom 90%. This is not sustainable, and makes for a very volatile economy. It would appear that the American empire is about to crash.
Originally posted by Aim64C
Cuz as I see it...not only did the wealthiest 2% get tax breaks...but when Americans ran out of money to give them, they asked the Gov. to step in and take our money directly and give it to them...in the form of BILLIONS in bailouts without conditions.
This is what we call being blinded by both jealousy and complete incompetence on your behalf.
Originally posted by Aim64C
In other words - it says that, should anything go wrong - the government has your back. The bailouts were not an option, the government was contractually bound to them since the 30s and, more recently, the 70s with the creation of the FHA and FHA-insured loans.
Originally posted by Aim64C
And now they are offended by not getting tax breaks???
It could be due to the simple fact that they pay over half of their earnings in taxes, while you get to sit there, paying less than 20%, and demand they pay more.
Originally posted by Aim64C
In all honesty, since that money is going to you, in the form of benefits - you are, ethically, not allowed to make the decision on what taxes should be. It amounts to: "I want more money, rather than go to school, get a better job, or otherwise improve my situation, me and my other under-employed buddies can vote ourselves housing, healthcare, and food at your expense. Not like you -need- that much money, right?"
Originally posted by Aim64C
We go on and on about the corruption and problems with lobbyists and representatives that stand to gain if certain measures pass.... look at yourself. How corrupt is it for the masses to be allowed to vote on whether or not 2% of the population should pay them more money?
Bottom line...a prosperous middle class...the consumers consuming...will be better for the wealthiest 2% in the long run. They will get a smaller percentage of a much greater money flow.
Tell me. What do the middle class do?
They need to suck it up and invest in the country that gave them wealth, both through traditional means and taxpayer bailouts.
This is what separates the smart from the stupid. Smart people, such as myself,
We were forced to give them Billions of our money when they "needed" it. Letting a tax break expire to return the slightest trickle of that wealth back to the middle class amidst a financial crisis is not too much to ask for.
This is quite meaningless. Your money doesn't constitute revenue:
Originally posted by Aim64C
It's about how you feel entitled to something that you aren't, and wish to use the government to extort someone else.
Originally posted by Aim64C
This idea that we can tax the rich for our own convenience will destroy our society.
Originally posted by links234
Finally, any 'sole proprietor' with more than 50 employees might as well be a tyrant. Both for hoarding the profits and cutting out their employees. Don't give me this argument, "Oh he's only making $250,000 from owning his business!" Only making...only making?! Only ripping off his employees and perpetuating his wealth, but that's the 'trickle down' part, right? As long as the wealthy business owner is doing well, it will stifle their greed and they'll be more apt to share that wealth voluntarily.
Wealth has been moving from the lower and middle class to the wealthiest 5% in this country at an accelerated pace for the past 40 years. Much more so during GOP administrations, but also under Dem Adminstrations. Not being partisan. This is statistical fact.
We have no more "coping mechanisms" to keep our economy alive....no more band-aids to compensate for the massive wealth inequity in the untited states. We need to stop shifting the wealth to the top 5% via tax breaks, bailouts, deregulation of the financial industry etc. and get the middle class healthy again or we are all screwed...middle class, lower class and the wealthiest.
I graduated with a degree in economics, with honors and I own a business...I make more money than most folks...I have no reason to be "jealous" and am far from incompetent in matters of economics or finance.
Have you ever heard of a Credit Default Swap or any of those new fangled "complex" financial instruments that Wall Street demanded the Gov. not regulate?
The vast majority of credit default was not FHA loans.
Your argument seems uninformed at best.
The Fed's bailout went to Bank of America, Republic of Korea and McDonalds?
The marginal tax rate for those making amounts over 372K is 35%, toss in a tax attorney, tax loopholes, deductions etc. and it is much less.
By any math they are not paying "over half thier earnings."
Not all those who call for justice are victims of injustice...some just have a moral compass...and understand that a viable middle class is neccessary for a country to survive...and a bankrupt middle class preceedes collapse.
The idea that it offends you that "the masses" should be allowed to determine whether a tax break on the wealthiest 2% should expire...after the largest, singular transfer of wealth from the masses to the richest amongst us in the history of the planet occured...which BTW was NOT voted on by the "masses"...it is just mind boggling.
How about every institution that recieved a bailout refund every cent....and then directly issue equal unconditional loan amounts to the general public equalling what they "borrowed". Then we can have a discussion about the future.
Uhhh...They are the consumer...The 98% of the masses that buy new stuff from corporations owned by the 1%...kind of vital component for an economy...
Not sure who I am debating with here?
Didn't we just pay them Trillions to "exist"? Is the middle class consumer less vital to an economy than the wealthiest 2%? I am pretty sure they will get thier money back when the middle class recovers and the economy picks back up....I am at least as sure of this as I was that Wall Street would recover when they asked the Gov. to give them trillions of our money.
Sorry...still not buying it.
Awesome!! I was unaware of that. I have some serious money due back from the IRS then.......can you direct me to where I can fill out some special form?
In Figure 8 when all federal, state and local government spending and taxes are
accounted for, the bottom three quintiles of income receive on average more dollars of
government spending than they pay in total taxes. In contrast, households in the top two
quintiles pay more in total taxes than they receive in government spending. Households
in the bottom quintile receive an average of $31,185 more in government spending than
they pay in taxes, while households in the top quintile pay $48,449 more in taxes than
they receive in government spending.
In the aggregate, households in the top two income quintiles pay roughly $1.031 trillion
more in total taxes than they receive in government spending. In contrast, households in
the bottom three quintiles receive roughly $1.527 trillion more in government spending
than they pay in total taxes. The difference between the two figures of approximately
$496 billion represents the amount that federal, state and local government spending
exceeded tax revenues in Calendar Year 2004. Depending on what assumption is made
about which households receive the most non-tax-revenue-financed government
spending, between roughly $1.031 trillion and $1.527 trillion of fiscal resources were
redistributed downward from the two highest-income quintiles to the three lowest-income
quintiles through federal, state and local tax and spending policy in 2004.27
For every dollar of tax burden, households in the bottom three quintiles receive more than
one dollar of government spending, while households in the two top quintiles receive less
than one dollar. Overall, households in the bottom quintile receive $8.21 in government
spending for every dollar of tax, while households in the third quintile receive $1.30, and
households in the top quintile receive $0.41.
About 10 million people make more than $200,000 in this country.
About 44 million people live in poverty in this country.
I make about the national average income. I think I have more than enough. I don't want to tax the rich more so I can buy a bigger TV.
I want to tax them more so that family in poverty can have a decent meal every night.
I want to tax them more so that impoverished kid can go to school next year with clothes that fit.
I want to tax them more so that my government can provide an American family in poverty with health care and not crushing debt.
I want to tax them more so others have a chance to increase their wealth too and not struggle with the decision to pay the rent or put food on the table.
44 million people live with these facts everyday, that's 44 million too many for the 'richest' country in the world.
Edit to add: I pay more in taxes because I choose to. I still give to charity.
Cut and pasting from the Limbaugh letter should be outlawed on ATS!
What will destroy our society is when enough people wake up to the disparity between rich and poor and start shooting people in Hummers, Porsche's, Escalades, Navigators etc. when they drive thru poor neighborhoods on their way to the country club. Do you think perhaps things might change then??
Perhaps the proponents of "trickle down" need to let a little more trickle down! So far the exact opposite has happened.
All the drugs, cheap booze and crap funneled into the "hoods" can't stop the rage that is building.
Want Peace? Work for justice!......and jobs, not chumpass jobs making happy meals.
Originally posted by WTFover
Oh my. That was a very disturbing post.
Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by links234
It's pretty pointless to worry about the state of people and families that you do not know, and will likely never know.
This one line, the best example of many in your response, is what will eternally seperate you and I in our opinions on world matters. You go ahead and continue fighting your good fight and I'll continue fighting mine.
Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by maybereal11
Wealth has been moving from the lower and middle class to the wealthiest 5% in this country at an accelerated pace for the past 40 years. Much more so during GOP administrations, but also under Dem Administrations. Not being partisan. This is statistical fact.
This is largely due to the switch from small family owned shops to large corporate stores - not any tax policy.
Originally posted by Aim64C
I'm in the military - I recognize the benefits that come with being in such a communist society. The problem is that people don't know where to draw the line and want to extend it beyond a point where it is practical and/or functional. The goal should never be to "give the poor a meal." The goal should be to "keep the struggling alive while teaching them how to succeed."