Why is white pride a bad thing?

reply to post by sugarcookie1


I agree, when talking about white culture, it is a very broad category. Even within the U.S. there can be identified numerous distinct cultures that fall under the larger category that white culture encompasses. You can also include Australia and Austria, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic, Scandinavian, and go on and on, and within each of these groups there can be divided several other numerous distinct cultures, but you will find that they all share traits that are identified as white.

Then you have the constant repeated nonsense that people should not be proud of their culture, their heritage, and that being proud of what ones ancestors accomplished, is false pride and only held by those who have nothing to be proud for and on and on with the vicious attacks from people claiming to support unity.

Personally, I say celebrate cultural diversity. It makes the world a much more interesting place. Without cultural diversity, all restaurants would be the same, with the same menu. The problem is with the people who want to promote the negative.

Here is the dirty underhanded message that the people who choose to deny culture, who want to pretend it doesn't exist are not saying, or mostly do not see.

When the accomplishments of the past are seen as a result of cultural advancement, then the credit is shared among everyone. Those who want to deny culture, are the same ones who want to give all the credit to a few elites, which is a bastardization of history. When you study history you see that most of the advancements that occur are not the result of the accomplishment of a singe individual, but communities all sharing in the same ideas, all working on the same ideas, and all advancing the same ideas.

The great advancements of history came not from a few elites, but were the results of ideas developed by numerous people, most of them anonymous. It is the contributions of the masses that make cultures, and therefore nations succeed, not the elites.

The one big thing elitist hate about white culture is our historically established practice of overthrowing the elites in power, and restoring order and liberty for the masses. This is why the elitist oppressors of the world hate white culture more than any other.

reply to post by tiger5

Well I have seen far right groups trying to hold marches in predominantly black areas and claiming them to be white pride marches. I say " No Pasaran" that is why I wrote what I did. All they wanted to do ws to race bait.

Sadly, these things happen. I think the idea of having a white pride parade is ridiculous. Putting some white culture celebration months in the schedule at the community colleges would be nice. Somewhere between Zulu cultural month and Hmong cultural month, thrown in Bavarian cultural month.

Originally posted by mayabong
I've been thinking about this alot lately. Why can every other culture celebrate their culture in the US. but if whites want to celebrate their culture or if they are proud of their heritage, they are automatically a racist?

I realize that whites haven't had the best track record but neither have all these other cultures.

Whites are meant to bear the guilt of Slavery when it is a documented fact that Jews were at the Heart of the slave trade. (although you wont see this in a Speilberg movie). Newport, Rhode island was the center of the Slave trade, highest jewish population in America and the oldest synagogue in the US. (Brazil and the Carribean slave trade were also dominated by jews)

They have no problem celebrating their jewish heritage.

Hispanics can celebrate their culture freely and happily, even though their history is just a dark as whitey's with all their killing of natives in south and central america.

I'm just wondering if this guilt injected into the white race over and over again has a deeper agenda. Kinda like the catholic church instills guilt and fear to take away your power.

I think every culture should be able to celebrate their heritage freely. Just wondering why whites are not allowed by the powers that be.

edit on 2-12-2010 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2010 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

Every month in the US is white history month. There are streets named after presidents, holidays honoring people of European descent, statues of white leaders, etc. etc... right to the nth power.

It's a case of can't see the forest for the trees.

I have created a related discussion.

"Why the Elites hate white culture more than any other."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

For those interested in these types of issues.

reply to post by poet1b


I appreciatred your post. I have been to a cultural event in Winnepeg called folklorama. It was a celebration of folk culture that was global. I introduced my uncle to Metaxa Brandy (Greek) he loved it. So you see it can be done via national folklore events.

I am curious about possible links between tap dance and european clog dances.

"White Pride" is a euphemism for Anglo-American(English American) supremacy. Because look at race relations in America and what is the several ton elephant in the room? German Americans.

We refused to take part in slavery so you "White Priders" persecuted us(most abolitionist's where German-Americans, most whites who the KKK hanged in the good old south tended to be either Catholics or German Americans, most German Americans didn't move into the South till the 1950's).

Look at Slavery, most slave owners where either of English, Irish, Scottish, native Indian, or Sub-Sahara Black descent. Very few if any where German Americans.

KKK was an English, Irish and Scottish American institution. Don't believe me? Google Nova Scotia. The "whites" there don't have a drop of German in them and surprise surprise cross burnings are still a common occurrence.

Aside from the Nazi insanity thing(which German Americans vigorously fought against Nazi sympathizers while America's English, Irish and Scottish elite where smooching the Nazi's up), people of German descent have a long history of immigrating to other countries and not messing them up.

Besides I think it is insulting to call someone of German-American heritage "white", after more then 300 hundred years of persecution and harassment from English, Irish and Scottish Americans(Irish had a it bad for a little though, mostly English and Scottish Americans where bigoted).

I think "race pride" is "bad", because pride, to me, is for something one actually did, not just because someone of your same skin tone did it. And it often seems that lower able people cling to "race pride", be it white, black, or brown, or any, to try and compensate(if that's the right word) for their own lack of intellect and abilities. Also, seeking division among peoples, and having a judgemental attitute is not good, regardless of which race.

Will there ever come a time when we all share just one thing? HUMAN PRIDE. Remove all labels...they tend to scratch.

I do not think White pride is a bad think. But image drives a hard bargain. Basically can you imagine being proud for being White and then people thinking you're apart of the KKK or some Neo Nazi group.

You can be proud of actions, not things you have no power over. You can't chose your race, ergo, you can't be proud of your race.

You can be proud of individual actions, like some dude saving a girl from drowning...because the guy took a risk and saved someone's life. But you even if he's white, you'd look beyond silly to say "so proud of him for being white...oh...and saving that girl too".

reply to post by tom502



The OP has a false assumption that all black people like black history month. Black history month has become a bit of a curate's egg. It is good in parts for some. If my kids didn't know black history beyond a certain age then it was my failing or theirs. Black history month has had some truly stupid events and talks.

we have computers so can google everything and form online communities. I am also not black 24/7. I am a parent, traveller, scientist businessman, consultant etc..

reply to post by mayabong


What's frustrating is that you are confusing one thing with another for your point of view, but ignoring it when using other cultures as opposing examples of why it can't be like that for you.

Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by amc621
reply to post by mayabong

 

I would be interested in seeing / reading something of a example. I'm not sure what a white celebration would be, so I would to hear what you see as one.

I'm not even talking about a celebration per se. I'm saying if I just say I'm proud to be white, I am a racist. But you can have all the Black Pride, Jewish Pride, Hispanic Pride you want.

What you mean when you say proud to be White is proud of your culture, which is not any one culture from Europe. Your culture is American. You are a American. Your culture is regionally specific and includes influences in specific historical percentages from the constituent European groups that happened to found and/or immigrate to the place you live.

If you were in Upstate New York, you would eat Poutine (French), if you were in Minnesota, then Lutheran ideals will be more prevalent. If you are in Boston, you are more likely to be Catholic or have some Irish cultural heritage in your daily "Americanness".

I just don't think its healthy to grow up with any kind of guilt and to be honest I've grown up very ashamed of being white and I know alot of white people are ashamed of themselves deep down. Because this is whats been taught to them.

I'm with most people on here that everyone is human and should be looked at equally. I think the whole pride in race is pretty dumb.

Agreed, you cannot have pride in race because you are being proud of genetic traits that are really only useful in the environment in which the trait first became established. Having skin that blends into snow would be advantages in the higher latitudes; having skin that deflects excessive sun would be beneficial in the Equitorial regions.

White cannot equal culture for many reasons, some I just listed on page 6 of the related thread "White culture is more likely to defeat the elites" or whatever it was titled.

There is no such thing as White culture. We can call it European culture. But does European include Spain, Portugal and Italy? How about the Greeks? What about the Irish or the Poles? How can it include all these people and still be a monoculture?

Are we looking at language? Then we'd have to ditch the Hungarians, Estonians, Finns and Basques, but include the Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghans and Indians.

Are we looking at religion? Then we should probably include all people of the "Book" so that means everyone from LIsbon to Jakarta, skipping a few parts of India and Southeast Asia, would be included. If we don't consider Jews, Christians and Muslims, than we can't just say that all Europeans have this shared Christian culture, because the only link is Christ, while the religions themselves, from Lutherans, to Catholics, to Protestants, to Greek Orthodox and so forth are all quite different. And since the religions have also been brought to far off corners of the globe, then do we include Filipinos with their Catholic traditions?

Are we looking at skin color only? If so, we are only talking about the external traits of the Caucasian group...and that being said, one could also include the Slavs and Finns who clearly have Asian ancestry mixed into their genes, or the Spanish, Portuguese and southern Italians who have North African ancestry floating around, bearing in mind that North Africans are also a mix of Caucasian and African blood on a continuum of mixture.

Anyway you slice it, there is no common denominator except humans make culture based on their environment.

You cannot conflate so many things and come up with the argument you are espousing.

I would also add that oppression does create "pride movements" because in oppression, one is meant to feel like crap about oneself in mutual agony with others of his externally-imposed or internally-recognized group.

Let's get some issues clear about Hispanics. The name itself is related to the language only. The colonial language of the countries from which the people we call "hispanics" hail from was and has been Spanish. Spanish are white, of varying mixes of German stock, Latin stock, Celtic stock, North African stock and Basque and other pre-Roman stock.

Hispanics in the Americas are for the most part not any one stock at all. In certain regions they are more likely to be more prevalently one genetic group or another, but this is on an individual to individual basis, it's not like 1000s of years have gone by for them to homogenize their genetic traits. The Spanish themselves, upon arriving in the Americas to mix and mingle with the various natives were not even homogeneous.

From Colorado to Tierra del Fuego, Argentina, there is no uniformity other than the colonial language. Argentinians are largely Italian and German,aside from Spanish and some indigenous roots. Chileans, too. Paraguayans are mostly bilingual (Guarani speakers) and most have some degree of Guarani blood in their veins. Peruvians and Bolivians have various Andean tribes mixed with the random Japanese or Chinese ancestry thrown in for good measure. Colombians and Venezuelans have European ancestry, native ancestry, and SubSaharan (Black) African ancestry. Head up through Central America and you get into Mayan and Aztec cultures, as well as numerous others that are not even related to those two major groups. As well as some African heritage and European heritage other than Spanish (which, we have already seen is not one thing either).

It's a hot mess.

Hispanic pride does NOT exist outside of immigrant movements in the US, where it has largely been monopolized by Mexicans (coming out of oppression from the Farm Workers' movements) and the Puerto Ricans (relating to independence struggles).

If this is the case, it is much more appropriate to say: Mexican Pride (which is already problematic because even Mexicans are NOT all one "race") or Puerto Rican pride.

Black Pride is also a struggle, stemming from slavery, Jim Crow and further oppression. In the US, Black pride has centered, naturally, around Black people, who do, insofar as large populations spread out over large areas can, and do have a unique culture. This culture is itself a blend of various SubSaharan, West African cultures and European and Native American traditions. Black Pride would be ridiculous in Africa itself, or do you have a way of explaining how so much tribal and ethnic strife coming out of the post-colonial collapse can possibly jive with a unified Black Pride.

In the Caribbean, the same forces are at work, so Black Pride (Negritud or Negrismo) has developed in Cuba, Haiti, Martinique, etc. Of course, the common link is again slavery, but other than that Angela Davis and Aime Cesare have only some similarity of cultural traits. The "Pride" similarity,as it stems from slavery itself, is the one unifying force in the two movements.

So, in a sense, (so-called - because we all have to face the facts that there is Native American blood coursing through a lot of our veins) European Americans are really the top of the food chain in America. We do have a Pride movement, it's called Patriotism. The Blacks and the Natives and the "Hispanics" and "Asians" in this country who are all "American" straddle an odd line between acceptance/belonging and marginalization/becoming an "other". As such, it is only natural that the non-mainstream culture or phenotype, in their oppression and marginalization, would, over time, develop various "Pride" movements.

You are suffering from a lack of vision. Your "White" Pride is all around you at all times. It's called American Patriotism. It doesn't stand out because you would never expect status quo to stand out. How could something run-of-the-mill stand out?

What we are finding is the multiculturalism, for all its purported good, really does have an ironic notion to it. In exalting that which is different, the status quo feel less unique, less special and they lash out at those who are special and exalted for their uniqueness.

I think the only real resolution to all of these so-called racial, mostly cultural issues that the OP, others and most "White" Americans have - as well as to the oppression faced by African Americans and other non-mostly-pure-Northern-Europeanish Americans would - ...the only real solution is total inbreeding by all American citizens until genetic uniqueness is not so clumpy and becomes more of a continuum from coast to coast, border to border.

But this requires time, though I can see it's starting to happen every time I see interracial couples. In fact, it officially started to happen when Italians and Irish started marrying or when Germans and Hungarians started to marry...this was a beginning of shedding ethnic differences.

Brazil is about a bit ahead of us in this respect, so more and more down there you see people who can rightfully be called "Brazilian", not just this or that percentage of Native American, Portuguese, African, Lebanese, Polish or Japanese ancestry. Eventually we'll get there...give it time.

I wonder why every white (no matter the country of origin) should feel white guilt?
I mean, I'm from Eastern Europe and we have never enslaved Black people over here, the Americans and some Western Europeans did, but they are not representative of the whole white race. I don't feel any white guilt, because my country had nothing to do with slaves in America.

Originally posted by michelbel
I wonder why every white (no matter the country of origin) should feel white guilt?
I mean, I'm from Eastern Europe and we have never enslaved Black people over here, the Americans and some Western Europeans did, but they are not representative of the whole white race. I don't feel any white guilt, because my country had nothing to do with slaves in America.

edit on 27-1-2011 by michelbel because: no reason given

The notion of "white guilt" is a lot like "political correctness," "the war on Christmas," or "the North American Union." It only exists in the minds of people who are set to opposing it and complaining about it. There's no movement to make white people around the world feel guilty, except in the minds of those white people who want to feel oppressed and complain about it.

However, there is a need for many "white" nations to face their own history honestly and fairly. Hell, there's a need for most nations to do this, to be honest. But since racial conflict has been a strongly defining point in places like the United States and Australia, it deserves something of a special mention.

Here in the United States, it used to be perfectly okay to teach a version of history where my people were "primitive," "savage," "murderous," "war-whooping," "scalpers" who conducted "massacres" against "settlers." In these history books, I would not be Choctaw, I would just be "an indian." I would not have a culture or a language, I'd simply be a context-free foe of "progress." My people would not have been forcibly removed from their homes at the point of a bayonet, but rather we're there, and then we're not. Every crime on the "frontier" was apparently committed by "Indians" like me, never by the "god-fearing" "settlers."

This is from the Alabama history book that I had in 9th grade. In 1997 (the book was 40 years old!) It made the claim that the removal of my people, and many others besides, was a "good thing" because it "opened the frontier to expansion and farming." Of course, we were already farming there, and the new people moving in were bringing in slaves from Virginia to do the labor for them, but that is omitted from the text. The destruction of an entire culture, a viable nation, is shown as being not only inevitable, but also for the best, since it made the way for "civilization."

I think you might be able to understand how I could take exception to such a portrayal, right? The reasons for this sort of portrayal is pretty simple; whites "won," so they got to write the history. of course, people like me are still around, and now that all the fighting is done, we want to have our say in the way we're portrayed, and how the history went down. And in a lot of nations, an accurate portrayal of interaction between whites and the locals doesn't paint the whites in a particularly flattering role.

Should white kids learning this history feel guilt over it? I don't think so; after all, they're not killing Indians, selling opium to China, or plundering Jerusalem. I suppose some of them will, just as I feel guilt when I read some of the stuff my countrymen are doing in the Middle East. But they should be aware of how history actually went down, because it's the only way they can get an understanding of the situations of the present.

The whitewashing - I use the term deliberately - of history has done nothing but leave several generations ignorant and ill-able to cope competently with world events.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Oh, Hi there... I tracked you back from Poet1b's thread... you have a Keen mind, and I would like to debate you.

I shall now take up a contrary position to yours, and begin thusly!


*Epic Fanfare*

The notion of "white guilt" is a lot like "political correctness," "the war on Christmas," or "the North American Union." It only exists in the minds of people who are set to opposing it and complaining about it.

Actually, these things you describe are all real.

For example, I could not bring up evidence of established IQ differences between the different Races of humans, because the statistics themselves were never studied after they were called "Racist"... due to political correctness.

The war on Christmas is a real thing also, in that commercialism is replacing the traditional yuletide celebrations.

No more is it "Celebrate the birth of Christ", but now more of a "Buy things for your family to prove your love"

So.... capitalistic war on Christmas.... lol!

And the north American union is an extension of NAFTA, and is for multinationals to continue making profit off of the cheap labor in Mexico, once the American Economy collapses (Driving through to Canada... lol)

There's no movement to make white people around the world feel guilty

Yes there is.

Merely blaming someone for slavery because of the color of their skin, is an example of this "White Guilt"...

In essence, YOU are responsible for slavery, if your Skin is WHITE.

or something along those lines.

Ridiculous, Yes....

Caused by Ignorance? Of course.... Deliberate? Maybe..... that remains to be seen.

But every time someone says that "White people" need to apologize for slavery, or "White Nations" need to apologize for slavery, that is an example of white guilt.

However, there is a need for many "white" nations to face their own history honestly and fairly.

Q.E.D.

But since racial conflict has been a strongly defining point in places like the United States and Australia, it deserves something of a special mention.

Yes, it does...

One of the first nations...


ON EARTH


To abolish slavery... Specially mentioned. LOL!

en.wikipedia.org...

Here in the United States, it used to be perfectly okay to teach a version of history where my people were "primitive," "savage," "murderous," "war-whooping," "scalpers" who conducted "massacres" against "settlers." In these history books, I would not be Choctaw, I would just be "an indian." I would not have a culture or a language, I'd simply be a context-free foe of "progress." My people would not have been forcibly removed from their homes at the point of a bayonet, but rather we're there, and then we're not. Every crime on the "frontier" was apparently committed by "Indians" like me, never by the "god-fearing" "settlers."

Native Guilt?

(Just joking... lol, I'm part Cherokee and Blackfoot ;P )

The whitewashing - I use the term deliberately - of history has done nothing but leave several generations ignorant and ill-able to cope competently with world events.

Seriously! Considering the Elite Bankers have been the ones pulling the strings for hundreds of years... I'd say the whitewashing would make tom sawyer proud!

Screw gay pride. Screw black pride. Screw latino pride. Screw white pride. Screw all "pride" that seperates us as humans. You are proud of what? Being born with a certain skin color? Being born in a certain area of the earth? How can you be proud of that? It is not an accomplishment you did, it is chance. We are all humans, all this seperation keeps our eyes off the prize. The fact that a small group of people control billions of people. That is where our focus should be. Burn it down. It is a sham.

If I came across this 5 years ago, I would have a different opinion. I used to be blinded, how white people seem to get the short end of the stick a lot of times. I had a caucasion club disbanded back in HS, and that pissed me off. Now I see things as they really are I think. Or at least better than I used to. I know that I am in the same boat as the poor black, poor latino, poor whatever. It doesn't matter much, we just make different choices. Latinos in NY, they decided to pack 20 people to an APT, while I chose to move to canada. We own a house outright, 500 bucks a year property tax. I could have done the pack into an apartment, and work fulltime, get paid like a part time with no employee route... It is normal people VS the super rich.

I saw a video recently on Fox News where the man had id say 30-40 people in the room maybe 5-10 of those were black and he asked a simple question: who would vote for obama again if the election were today. Guess who raised their hand? Every black person in the room raised their hand but one. Not one white person. What does this tell me?

Regardless of what the politics behind the man are, with black voters it only has ever boiled down to voting for their own even if he's only half black. The scary truth is, after seeing that video, we really could have put Flaver Flav up for president and the majority of the black vote would go to him simply because he's of their skin color.

The racists in this country arent the whites, latinos or asians. Thats all Im saying.