Freemasons don't seem to have a hidden agenda.

One thing i would agree on is most masons do not know anything about what the ptb do or how they control things, other than they are in a social club.

The thing i laugh about is where if william cooper is right you have to be 32 or 33th degree mason to be a naval intel officer in usa navy.

To be that far in masonry you have to hear whispers, cough cough. So who is running what?

reply to post by coyotepoet

well for me blaming a particular group for evil and the supporting your argument by citing a shady organisation that we have no proof of seems wrong as in fallacious thinking. Surely just calling it human greed which we all know exist is a more reasonable option.

So do you believe every conspiracy? i don't.What was the nature of your research? was it wiki? ATs or just the whole internet?

reply to post by tiger5


Fair enough.And no, I don't believe in every conspiracy, just the ones I have studied enough to have a good idea about.

Nice psy-op move. Most of my research has been non-internet sources-books by everyone from Manley Hall to Frater Achad and Crowley, studies in Rosicrucianism, Magick, and Qaballism over the last 20 yrs, and talking with those "in the know". Actually very little of it has been on the internet and much less still from ATS which is a hotbed of agent provacateur psy-ops and WIki is even more unreliable.

reply to post by copper5661


I dont know about you,

But when i read this,

www.masonicinfo.com...

It give me chills /almost a feeling of a OBE,

And all the feelings are not bad ,it is one of my most favorite feelings in the world.

The feeling of security,it gives me ,and I am not a mason, been just a lil afraid I would say to venture into the realm of their enlightenment,
But again the feeling studying /researching, all the things the past Freemason have done thought,created,protected,ect.ect. regardless of bad and good apples ,those are everywhere,the feeling is so spiritual,its a feeling ,that i love but have yet to feel it with anything but that.I feel wright now as I type,as i think about all of them from the past .I admire each and everyone one of them.

My great great great grandfather was a Freemason(was the judge of his lil town)

Originally posted by andy1033
One thing i would agree on is most masons do not know anything about what the ptb do or how they control things, other than they are in a social club.

We'd like to think of it as a bit more than a social club, but yes, this is absolutely true. I agree 100%. And the few top people in the world control (of which there may be a few masons) do know what is really going on.

The thing i laugh about is where if william cooper is right you have to be 32 or 33th degree mason to be a naval intel officer in usa navy.

To be that far in masonry you have to hear whispers, cough cough. So who is running what?

I am laughing as well. That tidbit should be enough to make anyone question the legitimacy of Mr. Coopers agenda. I think the female naval intel officers might be a bit bewildered as to why they must join a fraternity in order to do their job. (hint: fraternities are the opposite of sorority)

Originally posted by coyotepoet
(as well as my Rosicrucian and OTO training)

Dude, you know that the OTO is where the NWO gets it's top members from? It's only the top 2% and it's kept very secret. the low level OTO members know nothing about it though. And the ones who claim to know about it are fibbing. they wouldn't be on a site like this.

reply to post by network dude


Dude, I do know that, and there were some crazy rituals that Crowley took part in to that end. But, I never said that I got my info on the Illuminati from the OTO, just insight into the hidden ways the world really works and other such esoteric teachings. And you may have been making it up and I'm not sure about the 2% thing, but you're prettty accurate nonetheless. From the way I understand it, membership in Illuminati (if you could call it that) is derived from the top tiers of many secret societies- OTO, Rosicrucians, and Masonry being some examples. Ultimately though it has a lot to do with bloodline and character inclination. I actually stopped being active in the OTO because of some of their darker inclinations. As Robert Anton Wilson said, "It is not a fungible conspiracy," which simply means that a secret society is not evil through and through, which is why it's ultimately rediculous to say that it is a Freemasonic conspiracy, etc, Just like there are good and bad people in life there are good and bad people in secret societies. Disinfo agents use that to their advantage, drawing people into a debate like this about whether there is a Freemasonic or Zionist conspiracy knowing that the vast majority of Freemasons are not evil, knowing that people's responses will be much like these have been as a way to muddy the waters and hide behind the masses of Masons (for example) who are perfectly harmless.

And the reason that people who know don't say in regards to the esoteric/occult is that to really understand many of the teachings requires a particular knowlege set to be cultivated. If a person doesn't have that knowlege set then many teachings can be confusing or misunderstood. So, while two adepts can have a conversation with each other about teachings, for one to try to explain the same conversation to somebody that didn't have the same reference points would be stupid and pointless because the uninitiated would not understand the holographic and layered breadth and depth of the information. The initiated are not any better than the uninitiated, just simply working from a different and often broader perspective, but anybody can seek the knowledge if they are so inclined. Anybody else want to play psy-op games with me?

reply to post by coyotepoet


I was throwing circular logic at you to see what you did with it. If you actually are in the Rosicrucian's and the OTO I would be very interested to hear about some of your experiences. I am curious to see how you could understand the structure of those groups and not have a clue about the structure of masonry. But maybe they are vastly different. I don't know for sure since I am not a member. And I made that up about the OTO. But I am sure you knew that.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by tiger5

 

Fair enough.And no, I don't believe in every conspiracy, just the ones I have studied enough to have a good idea about.

Nice psy-op move. Most of my research has been non-internet sources-books by everyone from Manley Hall to Frater Achad and Crowley, studies in Rosicrucianism, Magick, and Qaballism over the last 20 yrs, and talking with those "in the know". Actually very little of it has been on the internet and much less still from ATS which is a hotbed of agent provacateur psy-ops and WIki is even more unreliable.

edit on 1-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: further response

edit on 1-12-2010 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given)

psy ops?? Moi??
Actually your spelling says a lot about you and you have gone up in my esteem. You actually may know something about the occult as opposed to the usual fakes and wannabees. I am discussing you in plain sight just to upset the sad people who only know the net.

Anyway enough of the love in.

my problem is that I cannot conceive of OTO members being part of the NWO. Most of the Caliphate people are just part of the teeneage sex or social club. Some of the older ones seemed to have passed that juvenile level but nontheless the OTO as a feeder organisam for the NWO? Well that is an extraordinary allegation.

Rgds

T5

reply to post by network dude


Have you considered that the structure of Masonry is so ubiquitous to western modern occultism that it is just not noticed. So many of the movers and shakers in the occult revival were masons as will as rich layabouts like Crowley.

Oh dear what will the conspiracy theorists make of this post...

reply to post by tiger5


I could see Masonry being a beginning point for some movers and shakers. Why, I can't fathom, knowing what it truly is. But our structure is such that there simply cannot be a higher group that could claim to be masonic. Sure, there could be a guy who comes around and taps certain members and says, "psst, hey come to my house at midnight for a secret meeting of the hidden hand group". That would make the hidden hand group a mysterious group that might be investigated, but it wouldn't make it masonic. I just cringe when I hear that one rumor get proliferated. It's always by people who read the same internet garbage, then coupled that with a Pike quote taken out of context. It's almost not worth fighting anymore. Almost. Dan Brown would be so proud.

reply to post by network dude


Well your post makes a lot of sense. I have been invited to join a few times but have politely declined. I am not much of a boozer and find occultism by far more interesting. Anyway to each their own. Most of the masons I know personally are just regular people.

The one thing that I know is in the UK (where I have lived for several years) the class system trumps all Lodges. Hence the wealthy have their lodges and the Less well of have theirs. They may share venues but they maintain the Class hierarchy. the same thing applies to Lodges in institutions like the police and the universities.

Rgds

T5

Originally posted by coyotepoet
Anybody else want to play psy-op games with me?

LOL, no dude, I can see that you are at least very intelligent, and possibly exactly what you say you are. Knowing that, I would be excited to have you start a thread about some of the magick that many discount as fantasy. (Should it exist) This thread isn't the place for that, but I would think it's a very hot topic and I know for sure I am interested. I am not looking for secrets, just experiences.

I have learned in the last day that the Bavarian Illuminati still exists (though maybe not as they were in the past) and am very interested in any group using that name. Knowing what the original Illuminati was about, I am interested to see what the goal is now. How and why the ideals changed.

Thanks for adding to your post. It helped very much.

reply to post by tiger5


the UK system must be vastly different than the US. Especially the Southern US. While Augustus talks about beer in the lodge and all, masonry as a whole is much more spiritual and esoteric than most things. Some members drink, but we pay special attention to subdue our passions, or not go around being hammered all the time. It's not that we are against it, we just aren't all about it. I wonder if your view isn't a local thing that was misconstrued. I guess anyone who is a mason is representing the group, and if that is what you see, then that is what you would assume for the whole. I have nothing against boozers BTW. I like beer.

Sorry, but you're not going to find out those kinds of things by watching TV. That's why they associate the words "internet" and "blogger" with "tin-foil hats"

reply to post by network dude


I could start a thread about experiences. I've seen some crazy shiz in my life, things I wouldn't have believed unless I experienced them. But that's just the thing, then I'd have to deal with some yahoo saying I was just making stuff up and how do you defend that unless you've experienced it?

Tiger is absolutely right about the class system in lodges UK or not. Remember, this started long before it was imported to the "new world". But as far as that goes, I wonder how many millionaires/billionaires are in your lodge in the southern US.

The other thing is that they aren't really Freemasons, at least in the sense that they are not representative of the whole and thus shouldn't use the name, but again, obfuscation is the name of the game. They use Freemasonic language and understanding in regards to sacred geometry and the Earth's ley line grids as well as graphic symbolism, etc. If you understand symbolic language, great places to look for their use are in the
coat of arms of every country, which includes the Great Seal of the US (that you can find on wiki). Also a lot of military squadron patches are chock full of esoteric symbolism and things like the NSA or CSS seals (lots of Knights Templar stuff there.)

Finally, as far as the psy-ops stuff goes, read some Joseph Goebbels and Edward Bernays, throw in a little study in perception psychology and you too will be able to recognize that crap all over mainstream media and sites like these as a way of nudging public discourse in the desired direction. Also, please don't take my snarkyness seriously, I'm a coyote, a trickster that tries to show people the sides of the boxes they don't know they are in, as any good trickster does while remembering that the seed of wisdom starts with the knowledge that the more I know, the more I know I don't know. And this because there are layers and layers of truth and understanding with one level of insight leading to another and so forth.

Would it be too hard to get a sticky post up some place explaining that even if the conspiracy theorist were right, and the top (whatever)% of Masons (Or any other organization) ran the world, that it would only be accurate to say THAT particular group ran the world as opposed to the (leftover)% of Masons or whoever that don't run the world? I mean, it would clear up a lot of the garbage in this forum and leave space for the good stuff if people could get this through their heads.

Maybe we could include a description of how Masonry is structured as well so people can understand what their talking about?

And define Lucifer as the mistranslation that it is?

Maybe have a list of Albert Pike quotes in the proper context?

Just sayin'...

Originally posted by Masonic Light

"The Blue Degrees are but the court of portico(porch) of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally mislead by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them....their true explication is reserved for the Adept, the Princes of Masonry." (32nd & 33rd degrees)

Actually, the 28° is called "Prince Adept", not the 32nd or 33rd.

I try not to pick on you, but these deceptive kinds of arguments don't help.

You're obviously not a lawyer and I'll leave it at that.

reply to post by network dude


Regarding the navy. I understood that if two people of equal ability came before a selection board that was controlled by masons then, under a tie situation. the masons would problably recruit the person that was the mason. What are the chances of that situation arising anyway? There are situations where various groups would select whoever had similar ideas or characteristics to the controlling group so it is not a masonic thing. That is human nature. However many masons I have spoken to feel that displaying masonic jewellry outside of the confines of the lodge is bad form.

reply to post by tiger5

that kind of thing isn't supposed to happen, but you know as well as I do that anyone who shares a commonality may tend to sway opinion toward one of their own. I would think that members of the same church, or softball team may act the same way. Displaying masonic regalia is ones own choice. I think you should ask yourself why you are doing it and make sure it's for the right reasons. If you have a sticker on your car to get you out of tickets, maybe you have the wrong idea. I only wear my ring when I go to functions where I might meet a brother and I do it so they might speak to me if I miss their ring. I like meeting new people and masons always have something in common so it's easy to talk to them.