Mirror Turns Dolphins Into Total Hams (with video)

This thread seems more about anthropomorphism than real biological research. Dolphins are not people. Dolphins are animals. Beautiful, Intelligent and friendly...but not people.

Anthropomorphism is a form of personification that gives human characteristics to non-humans, primarily the gods or animals. It is used in religions, literature, and has everyday uses as well. In many ways, anthropomorphism may be seen as a way to make things that are unfamiliar seem more familiar.

reply to post by JohnySeagull


It's a two-way mirror, the Dolphins cannot see anyone on the other side, they can only see their reflection. Hence the explanation for the test where they marked one and it went to see in the mirror what the mark was.

Also, there is a big difference between vanity and curiosity/playfulness. Kids play dress-up and look at themselves in the mirror. They don't do it to conform to a social expectation (which is basically what vanity comes down to - social expectation built up to become an obsession) they do it for fun and because of curiosity about themselves and what they look like.

These Dolphins are expressing an interest in how they look, this is all about being aware of the outer self.

It's fascinating. But it is a shame that we seem to place more value on selected species, rather than recognizing our own arrogance and changing to prevent our continual destruction of every life form on Earth.
All life is vitally important, highly intelligent or not.

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky


I don't think so.
What you are describing is the basic need to apply Human identity to an animal for our psychological benefit, to talk to animals like we would other people, to dress them up in little hats and boots.

In this case it is their behavior which is being observed. The introduction of a mirror is not akin to putting a hat on them.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by -W1LL

 

I have to agree that the ego of the scientist is a bit sickening, but they are giving credit where it is due now and if it opens eyes, then it is positive though long time in coming, 'eh?

thanks for showing me the good side, it makes me feel better. there is a good side to everything.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by JohnySeagull

 

Also, there is a big difference between vanity and curiosity/playfulness. Kids play dress-up and look at themselves in the mirror. They don't do it to conform to a social expectation (which is basically what vanity comes down to - social expectation built up to become an obsession) they do it for fun and because of curiosity about themselves and what they look like.

These Dolphins are expressing an interest in how they look, this is all about being aware of the outer self.

It's fascinating. But it is a shame that we seem to place more value on selected species, rather than recognizing our own arrogance and changing to prevent our continual destruction of every life form on Earth.
All life is vitally important, highly intelligent or not.

Very good explanation something I will teach my kids

S&F from me. Dolphins and whales are very unique species who's intelligence should be recognized and studied.

As a commercial flounder fisherman, I routinely have close encounters with bottle nose dolphins when they use my floundering lights to teach their young how to catch fish at night. The adults quite often come up and roll their heads over to get a good look at me before they bring their young into feed and you get the feeling that they somehow sense that it's safe to do so. When they bring their young in close, I can watch as the mother nudges the young dolphin to enter the light and catch their own food. Quite an amazing animal, to say the least.

It's very difficult to judge animal intelligence without anthropomorphising.

Research has suggested for a while that dolphins can pass the mirror test, but I fail to see how clowning around in front of the mirror suggests any more or less intelligence.

The problem is that people see them larking about, and think ''Ooh, isn't that cute, they're just like little children !'', which leads to the false conclusion that the way that they behave is more or less intelligent than some other animals.


If anything, dolphins often exhibit other characteristics that suggest that they're not that bright.

For example, there have been examples of dolphins fighting off a shark that's attacking a human, which doesn't suggest that they're that intelligent in that regards.

Another behaviour that they have been observed, which tempers talk about their high intelligence level, is their complete inability to jump over or swim under nets. Most other animals are smart enough to do this.


I'm not saying that dolphins are necessarily stupid, it's just that intelligence is the combination of many factors, and just because they display intelligence in one facet, doesn't mean that they don't display a lack of intelligence in other facets.

Intelligence is notoriously difficult to define is humans, yet alone other animals.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
It's very difficult to judge animal intelligence without anthropomorphising.

Research has suggested for a while that dolphins can pass the mirror test, but I fail to see how clowning around in front of the mirror suggests any more or less intelligence.

The problem is that people see them larking about, and think ''Ooh, isn't that cute, they're just like little children !'', which leads to the false conclusion that the way that they behave is more or less intelligent than some other animals.


If anything, dolphins often exhibit other characteristics that suggest that they're not that bright.

For example, there have been examples of dolphins fighting off a shark that's attacking a human, which doesn't suggest that they're that intelligent in that regards.

Another behaviour that they have been observed, which tempers talk about their high intelligence level, is their complete inability to jump over or swim under nets. Most other animals are smart enough to do this.


I'm not saying that dolphins are necessarily stupid, it's just that intelligence is the combination of many factors, and just because they display intelligence in one facet, doesn't mean that they don't display a lack of intelligence in other facets.

Intelligence is notoriously difficult to define is humans, yet alone other animals.

few questions about your post. what is the mirror Test? and what is its conclusion.?

dolphins are sharks natural enemies dolphins will usually win in a right they ram the sharks ribs/gills with their nose and collapse lungs dolphins kick ass.

dolphins can and do jump over nets I have seen them go under fishing nets stealing fish. most other animals can do this? what animals?

Flatfish - I would like to add to your great encounters with dolphins.

I have had a few encounters with dolphins the first of many sailing to catalina of the Cali coast and having dolphins swim right next to the boat then shoot over the bow at least 20' in the air while we were sailing fast in open ocean not just chugging along the dolphins were having a blast!!
another time while surfing off of Topanga in HUGE surf right as a storm was coming in me and a friend went out and were accompanied by 2 dolphins surfing right with us only a couple feet away one of the best times of my life!!

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
...
For example, there have been examples of dolphins fighting off a shark that's attacking a human, which doesn't suggest that they're that intelligent in that regards.
...

This suggests to me that the dolphins are quite intelligent and even compassionate beings, recognizing that the shark is a common enemy of human and dolphin, and the dolphin is helping out his Earth-brother. I don't see how the seeming compassionate defense of another life form implies low or lack of intelligence. It tells me that these are very sophisticated creatures. What creatures defend another species? Humans and their pets or domesticated animals. I know my dog Ringo will defend/protect me to the death (I would do the same for him). In the wild, it is quite rare for one species to protect another. They must feel somehow the need to protect, and that must be a sign of intelligence - to go against instinctual tendencies to protect life.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


We learn and adapt through experience. That is why dolphins swim into nets and get caught because they haven't learned to avoid humans. When they do learn to avoid us it is usually too late for them to do anything because they are already tangled in the net.

You can't protect yourself from the unknown because you don't know what it is until it is too late.

S+F great video. I think all creatures deserve our utmost respect because they give us the ability to sustain our lives. I think it is something that we always take for granted and always will, until we lose that precious something.

reply to post by LadySkadi


Dolphin speech always resembles song to humans, who apparently do not speak dolphin. Flipper. Great band. Not-so-great tv show.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Those who study animal epistemology would argue that many animals are equally smart as humans, if not geniuses compared to them. Look at how big an elephant brain is. Your views seem to be homo-centric. Showing them a mirror is not akin to putting a hat on them...

reply to post by WashingtonGrewHemp

The post mentioned poetry, that is why I referenced speech as song.

It is beautiful though, just as cool to listen to as the whales call, no?

Lol...Why is the scientist whispering?... ...not like the Dolphin can hear her through 3 inch glass.

Right there I'd say that's proof Dolphins are smarter

Absolutely and truly amazing. Dolphins never seem to cease amazing me with their intelligence and just how much we underestimate them. What a magical beast and I just think it's a shame how they are slaughtered in Japan, as per the excellent and Oscar winning documentary titled, "The Cove"

If there is another animal to whom the Earth tasks its management, it is the dolphin, as opposed to any primate. They seem to be the only other creature than can and does think in abstracts. To any extraterrestrial entity (real, imagined or unimagined), there are two intelligent life forms on this planet. One which ponders the land and the other which ponders the sea, yet we humans fail to even recognize this shared superiority.

I have heard stories of dolphins coming to the rescue of humans in trouble or being attacked by sharks, as if to gently imply their subtle co-rule that we seem to still be so ignorant of. It truly blackens my heart to know what is happening to these amazing creatures in other parts of the world where humans don't heed the much earned respect of the dolphin. How can we kill or imprison a creature that shares a level of empathy with ourselves, yet still honor our conscious?


--airspoon

Is ATS under DoS attack?

reply to post by LadySkadi


Yea thanks but no thanks. Dolphins don't build cities. And you can say that if they had hands they would, but last time I looked, Crows were making spears with their feet and beak. So if they were that intelligent, they would find a way.

They are smart. They are not intelligent beyond a child, however. That doesn't make them special. It makes them very smart computers. People are still on the top. And to say we aren't is quite frankly silly. if we went extinct, They'd have a long long long time before they'd even remotely be able to replace us.

There are many forms of intelligence. Emotional, technical, etc etc. They are most certainly not equal to us in all.

Meanwhile in Taiji Japan they are killing & capturing dolphins for food & to entertain idiots at aquariums ;(

www.seashepherd.org...

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
This thread seems more about anthropomorphism than real biological research. Dolphins are not people. Dolphins are animals. Beautiful, Intelligent and friendly...but not people.

Anthropomorphism is a form of personification that gives human characteristics to non-humans, primarily the gods or animals. It is used in religions, literature, and has everyday uses as well. In many ways, anthropomorphism may be seen as a way to make things that are unfamiliar seem more familiar.

Yes dolphins & animals don't make weapons & kill each other for money or chop other species up to wear their skins, do research on them, test pesticides etc on each other... What the hells your point

S&F

This is a lot cooler than the wiki leaks thread.