N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by GovtFlu
North Korea says South Korea fired first
www.skynews.com.au...

From the Source:

'The South Korean enemy, despite our repeated warnings, committed reckless military provocations of firing artillery shells into our maritime territory near Yeonpyeong island beginning 1pm (1500 AEDT),' a statement from the North's military supreme command said.

"Maritime territory". That means, the SKs were dropping shells into the water. NK decided enough is enough and fired up a town.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
The North began shelling after sending several messages protesting about South Korean naval, air force and army training exercises being staged close to the border, a Seoul presidential spokesman said.

So, because the SKs were having an exercise close to the border, it was OK for the NKs to shell a town?

Sorry, the NKs have been pulling stunts like this for years. Commando raids killing civilians, firefights in the DMZ, you name it.

We have no idea who fired first. Yeah, you are totally correct, North Korea has been fairly bold in its attacks against the South, especially inside the DMZ. There are several now abandoned observation posts that US soldiers used to just disappear from into the night. However there have been several incidents provoked by the US and South Korea that didn't make it into the media, which were quite provocative. We simply do not know the whole story.

I think it's a little early to call it either way, though. Overall it doesn't really matter, it is just another incident in a long string of incidents.

Originally posted by TSAisaSCAM
don't trust anyone, draw your own conclusions.... CNN reported South Korea didn't retaliate, IMO, This is something big. North Koreans aren't idiots, just brainwashed. Brainwashed mad men. Angry at the world, it seems.

They pretty much just want to be left alone. Who knows if that would calm them down, because it certainly has never been tried.

Maybe worth a shot.

Have any of you guys seen where this island was? If there's any truth to NK's comments the south easily could have been instigating for a war. Why not fire deep into the yellow sea? Look at the location and you'll understand if there was truth to NK's comments, my point would be valid.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


This is exactly what the media is doing..

www.fas.org...

TA = target audience

"Counter enemy propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, and opposing information to portray friendly intent and actions correctly and positively for foreign TAs, thus denying others the ability to polarize public opinion and political will against the United States and its allies."

Investigative reporters are supposed to "investigate" before forming an opinion. These days the MSM simply parrot politicians, their appointed lackeys, and other assorted military industrial complex whores. The govt pimp sends out his bitches to deny "..others..", like those telling the whole truth, "..the ability to polarize public opinion and political will against the United States and its allies".

People still buy into this contrived tripe too.. lol.. republicans & democrats would never lie Americans dead.. except for 70,000+ dead from the factional Gulf of Tonkin non incident.. oh and saddams WMDs, yellow cake, links to al-queefduh.. bin laden orchestrating 9/11 from his 5 star accommodation cave.. lmao.. all that fake news..

This time though!!.. they're telling the truth, no really..

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by TSAisaSCAM
don't trust anyone, draw your own conclusions.... CNN reported South Korea didn't retaliate, IMO, This is something big. North Koreans aren't idiots, just brainwashed. Brainwashed mad men. Angry at the world, it seems.

They pretty much just want to be left alone. Who knows if that would calm them down, because it certainly has never been tried.

Maybe worth a shot.

The thing is they want to be left alone, while developing nuclear weapons, and while being on life support paid for by other nations.

When they want something they stamp their feet like screaming children. They come to the table, agree to certain things, get their prize and then do what they like anyway.
Then they repeat the same thing when they need something else.

IMO, there is absolutely no way this can continue indefinitely. Their aggression is increasing, possibly because of interior turmoil.

I personally think that there needs to be a concerted military effort to overpower the NK military infrastructure in as quick a move as possible. Normally I am supporter of leaving nations to do what they like. I believe it is up to the people to overthrow a dictator. But when a country is nuclear, and they are threatening their neighbors, their leadership and military power needs to be decapitated as soon as possible.

reply to post by GovtFlu


I agree to an extent. But when you have news agencies around the world reporting the same facts, how much of it can be viewed as just propaganda?

Each nation has its own intentions and desires, and yet in these instances all reports seem to match.

Looking at American news and then Russian you can see the discrepancy. They both view a story with different eyes. America will report a financial story, leaving bits out and spinning it, while Russia will report it with a cynical attitude, including facts that American broadcasters "conveniently" left out.
It displays American need for optimism and (basically) lying to their citizens. While Russia wants to show how weak America is economically.

The only solution is to get your news from as many sources as possible and create a picture from that.

If you limit your news sources to only your national broadcasters, then yes, you're probably not getting a true picture of what is going on.

reply to post by signal2noise

"So, because the SKs were having an exercise close to the border, it was OK for the NKs to shell a town? Sorry, the NKs have been pulling stunts like this for years. Commando raids killing civilians, firefights in the DMZ, you name it. "

..and US party leaders have been lying for years about why violence is needed, occupations are ok, torture, kidnapping and kangaroo courts, you name it.. all good.

The US has shelled dozens of towns in Iraq / Afganistan, N Korea is just following the example of the land of the free.. lol.. NK, or any nation, can defend themselves just like the US has as far as I'm concerned.

Lets be thankful N Korea didn't follow the post 9/11 "American way" by kidnapping innocent people or torturing people 183 times until admitting guilt.. before denying the tortured due process & locking them up without trial indefinitely... then lying about reasons to attack & invade 2 nations who were innocent of N Koreas propaganda.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou





Why do I beleive????

You got to be kidding???

So you think its a possibilty another ship/country/sub came in and sank it,,,???A german torpedo???

North Korea is nortorious for smuggling,,counterfiting,,arms covert deals,,,(under cover),,,,,

This is my opinion on this,,,I dont have the 101% facts on this ,,,,and OBVIOUS you dont,,,,,,A ship blows up and your opinion points towards someone else did it,,,,,,,,yet you must fail or ignore the past antics of the north,,,????


Common scense is its HIGHLY UNLIKELY soth korea DOES NOT want any war ,,,thats da_ obvious whith the crap they put up with,,,,!!!!
North Korea has pulled one thing after another!!


One has to choose sides,,,,

If you think their just screwed over go buy a t-shirt or stick a bumber sticker to your car that says """"I LOVE NORTH KOREA""""

China's worst nitemare is to have a free nation next to its border,,,,,,,but north korea

It would be the worst to fix,,,the economy and everything!

Its a buffer zone of sadness and dispair.....probly many innocent people in prison camps/jail and women who have done nothing,,,its frightning to think of the in-justice there!!!(1000's are in camps in forced labor there for listening to the radio)

You go spread your common scense and opinions but they have no weight with me!!!

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

en.wikipedia.org...

South Korea fired 80 shells.

And yeah, artillery exchanges happen regularly. I suppose I should have been more careful, and noted that I was referring to any shells fired from any large caliber guns, *whether on sea or land* but no matter if it floats or sits on the ground, artillery is artillery.

Thanks for the link! Took some time searching but I found several articles relating to that response by SK.

I still don't fully believe you on the comment that artillery exchanges happen regularly though. If they haven't happened more than once in the past 10 years I wouldn't relate that to the term "regularly". Even stating:

"I suppose I should have been more careful, and noted that I was referring to any shells fired from any large caliber guns"

I would still invalidate your original statement (for the time being) because any exchange of the sort would garner media attention regardless of the bias of the media and the event would be easily found in the archives of the Internet.

That being said, there is no evidence to support that exchanges between North and South Korea, regardless of who started it, involved any caliber weapon larger than a machine gun or mortar in any higher frequency of occurrence than normal. From what I could find, the last few times artillery shelling happened was in January 27, 2010 and July 16, 1997. The time spaced between those two dates and yesterday isn't applicable to saying that artillery use between the Korea's is a frequent or common event.

The fact of the matter is that artillery use isn't a common occurrence on the DMZ. Is artillery there? You bet. But to pass the use of artillery in the exchange by the Korea's off as something of a commonality is just wrong. The fact of NK using a show of force against SK like they did yesterday is a worryingly escalation of hostilities in both who they target and what weapons they use.

ATTENTION EVERYBODY the big boys are fine tuning their military equipment & capabilities.
So Be cool, think bright…
Beside they are not kids to start WW3 without false flag or hot gun!!!

reply to post by GovtFlu


You should do a little research on Operation Mockingbird. Our media has been infiltrated extensively over the last 60 years.

The goal is to control the narrative.

ALERT...

A reliable source who is serving in SK told me that the families living on base are being relocated to Hawaii or their own homes in the US... They are ordered to leave by Saturday at noon.

Anyone who can confirm so we're sure a prank is not being pulled on me would be appreciated.

This isn't looking good AT ALL.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by TSAisaSCAM
don't trust anyone, draw your own conclusions.... CNN reported South Korea didn't retaliate, IMO, This is something big. North Koreans aren't idiots, just brainwashed. Brainwashed mad men. Angry at the world, it seems.

They pretty much just want to be left alone. Who knows if that would calm them down, because it certainly has never been tried.

Maybe worth a shot.

The thing is they want to be left alone, while developing nuclear weapons, and while being on life support paid for by other nations.

When they want something they stamp their feet like screaming children. They come to the table, agree to certain things, get their prize and then do what they like anyway.
Then they repeat the same thing when they need something else.

IMO, there is absolutely no way this can continue indefinitely. Their aggression is increasing, possibly because of interior turmoil.

I personally think that there needs to be a concerted military effort to overpower the NK military infrastructure in as quick a move as possible. Normally I am supporter of leaving nations to do what they like. I believe it is up to the people to overthrow a dictator. But when a country is nuclear, and they are threatening their neighbors, their leadership and military power needs to be decapitated as soon as possible.

The problem is that they have a similar sort of standing order that Stanley Kubrick portrayed in Dr. Strangelove - an analog to Wing Attack Plan R.

If we invade, or cause massive damage to North Korea, they level Seoul.

Yeah, I agree that there it is a big mistake to continue giving in to their demands for aid. However you make a huge mistake when you portray them as "little children."

They know we are a pushover and will continue shoveling food at them. That's why they make these demands - because they know we will submit to them. They're not crazy or stupid. We could decide against giving food aid, but it is a form of bribery that we are all too happy to dispose of, and it does seem to mollify the North Koreans, for a time, after deliveries are made.

Who knows what the ultimate cause of the aggression is - perhaps they just wanted to prove a point. Before the shelling started, they did try diplomacy. According to the laws or war, and disputed zones, they are perfectly within their rights to make a small, localized military attack inside a disputed zone, if they give warning ahead of time, in response to military action by their enemy. Of course nothing was really accomplished by this, but it will result in another round of talks and probably more food aid.

By the way, I don't know if you caught my post above, but the North Koreans do not need any food aid. Multispectral imaging shows that crop production has been more than adequate since 2003. My guess is that they want food aid because it usually comes in the form of MREs which are expensive to produce. The irony here is that the civilians will continue to eat barley and rice, and the military will be eating UN MREs!

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

I agree to an extent. But when you have news agencies around the world reporting the same facts, how much of it can be viewed as just propaganda?

Each nation has its own intentions and desires, and yet in these instances all reports seem to match.

Looking at American news and then Russian you can see the discrepancy. They both view a story with different eyes. America will report a financial story, leaving bits out and spinning it, while Russia will report it with a cynical attitude, including facts that American broadcasters "conveniently" left out.
It displays American need for optimism and (basically) lying to their citizens. While Russia wants to show how weak America is economically.

The only solution is to get your news from as many sources as possible and create a picture from that.

If you limit your news sources to only your national broadcasters, then yes, you're probably not getting a true picture of what is going on.

You have the right idea. Get news from as many sources as possible, and synthesize the "truth" from filtering and combining them.

Watch out for subtle editorializing. Our domestic US news is especially bad in that regard. They throw some facts at you, which may or may not be true or relevant, and then the pretty news girl tells you how you should feel about those facts.

Hi all, ive been following this link since it started and have been glued to the news since, its a very Knife Edge situation for both countrys to be in! however i have just joined ATS to post this link to a you-tube video. The gentleman giving the speech is pretty up their beside crazy but it does give food for thought. What say you?


www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Little_Kona
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

Why do I beleive????

You got to be kidding???

So you think its a possibilty another ship/country/sub came in and sank it,,,???A german torpedo???

North Korea is nortorious for smuggling,,counterfiting,,arms covert deals,,,(under cover),,,,,

This is my opinion on this,,,I dont have the 101% facts on this ,,,,and OBVIOUS you dont,,,,,,A ship blows up and your opinion points towards someone else did it,,,,,,,,yet you must fail or ignore the past antics of the north,,,????


Common scense is its HIGHLY UNLIKELY soth korea DOES NOT want any war ,,,thats da_ obvious whith the crap they put up with,,,,!!!!
North Korea has pulled one thing after another!!


One has to choose sides,,,,

If you think their just screwed over go buy a t-shirt or stick a bumber sticker to your car that says """"I LOVE NORTH KOREA""""

China's worst nitemare is to have a free nation next to its border,,,,,,,but north korea

It would be the worst to fix,,,the economy and everything!

Its a buffer zone of sadness and dispair.....probly many innocent people in prison camps/jail and women who have done nothing,,,its frightning to think of the in-justice there!!!(1000's are in camps in forced labor there for listening to the radio)

You go spread your common scense and opinions but they have no weight with me!!!

You might want to take it easy on the comma key there, you will wear it out.

You don't have to believe anything I say, but you are a jerk for suggesting I am a commie or in any way support them.

If you aren't interested in facts and reason, there's little point in arguing with you. You just go on with your fingers in your ears, yelling LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU because until you start using that organ between your ears I can't help you see any light.

By the way, blind fairweather patriotism and adherence to a jingoistic narrative is KILLING AMERICA and I blame you and people like you.

reply to post by Vitchilo


That's definitely not good.. I really hope there's no merit to that for the sake of it's possible effects.. So, I'm guessing 12 noon on Saturday would be Friday at 7 PM Pacific Standard Time? That's sounds like about the same time I heard on the radio of the first breaking reports of the first US missile strikes on Iraq on March 20, 2003. It wouldn't surprise me if the US/SK attacked as American MSM were playing the evening news. Hell of a ratings bump for FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC and NBC on a usual no-news Friday night.

reply to post by Vitchilo


that is precaution after recent events and upcoming drill in saturday

reply to post by mistafaz


As I have said, naval battles are quite regular. By "regular" I don't mean every day, but they are not extremely rare events. Believe me or not, not a big deal.

The Wikipedia article on the Crab Wars is most informative, but does not begin to tell the whole story of border tension.

Here's another good article:

en.wikipedia.org...


On edit: Many border incidents are characterized by phrases such as "exchanged fire" without specific notes as to what sort of weaponry was involved.

To me, the weaponry is purely incidental. Earlier in the thread people were arguing about whether or not this latest incident involved rocket or missile fire, or shells. Who cares? The important thing is what sort of damage was caused, and if damage was done to civilians or military personnel.

reply to post by detachedindividual


"I agree to an extent. But when you have news agencies around the world reporting the same facts, how much of it can be viewed as just propaganda?"

You're assuming they are reporting "facts".. news media & govts don't determine facts, they make allegations which amazingly.. seem to echo politicians agenda / party talking points.

The police don't arrest based on the fact a "suspect" committed murder.. the accused are called "suspect" because all the govt has are allegations that must be proven. Just like news papers don't report a suspected killer is, in fact, a murderer.

Credible investigations exposed to sunshine and trials where both sides get a fair chance to submit / challenge evidence & argue under oath...establish fact from fiction... but we don't get those from either the media or govt.

Without knowing who is telling the truth this time, we can look to history to establish a hint of who is credible and who isn't.. a quick glance at the past shows the media & politicians are epic failures at getting their "facts" straight AND telling the whole truth.

Anything the govt says, or the MSM repeats, is suspect because we know US party leaders have an active PSYOP mission in place that isn't supposed to tell the whole truth: govt "officials" are tasked to "conveying selected information" "to support U.S. national objectives"... just like this whole N Korea story does.

"MISSION OF PSYOP 1-5. The mission of PSYOP is to influence the behavior of foreign target audiences (TAs) to support U.S. national objectives. PSYOP accomplish this by conveying selected information and/or advising on actions that influence the emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign audiences."

www.fas.org...