It's the TSA. Get Over It.

reply to post by Sly1one


Actually (and sadly) I understand the OP's point. There is nothing we can do to really change the TSA. We lost that power a long time ago. They are three anot going away, regardless of whether they are the right thing or the wrong thing. People who have objects should make alternative travel plans whenever possible.

Am I close?

reply to post by Sly1one


Hey sly1one, I'd first like to say you had me chuckling quite a bit with the x-ray bbq and thanks for trying to intepret my thinking instead of calling it a whine.

I understand where alot of people are coming from when they believe what the TSA is doing is wrong, but what I'm trying to help readers and posters understand is that this is the biproduct of what has occured over the last decade and how the masses responded to every foreign terror threat perpatrated or theorized.

I'm not telling people to idly stand by while these things go on. I'm merely informing that because it was the peoples' decision to put this type of security into place, it's the peoples' decision to take it out. But, and I stress this highly... posting it on a conspiracy-based website will recieve no attention from the masses. Unfortunately, ATS isn't main stream media. It's a community of people who discover what others don't want us to discover.

Things like this need to be handled through a "mass" movement. In other words the masses all speaking at once. Not by a few people commenting over a few incidents that although may fustrate the reader(s), were what the TSA was doing because it was protocol and yet we accuse them of things with no background evidence.

We have the choice to fight back. Any civilization has that capability. But no one wants to do it. So until someone wakes up the masses from the hypnosis. You merely have to deal with the issue at hand.

Ever heard the term "a wolf in sheep's clothing" ? We are the wolves... and the sheep are the masses... like any uprising, the wolf must first convince the sheep that that the sheperd is the enemy and that the way he is treating them is alot different than how they want to be treated, just like the sheperd convinced the sheep that a sheep without a sheperd is a dead sheep.

Posting anything on a "crazy conspiracy, omg alienz are here, wherez mah tin foilz!!!11" will recieve no attention from anyone to begin with. The main reason people post on here is for entertainment.

Originally posted by Shikamaru
reply to post by Sly1one

 

But, and I stress this highly... posting it on a conspiracy-based website will recieve no attention from the masses.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by Sly1one

 

I won't know until I see them but I do know that the videos I'm seeing are being blown out of proportion and are all a result of people refusing to be scanned. they knew this would be the other alternative.

Two horrible choices don't make either of them right...

If I give you a choice between two doors, one leading to a shotgun to your face, and another leading to a furnace it doesn't matter which you chose you still die.

the boy with no shirt? his father took it off. the tsa agent isn't fondling the kid.
the man who warned about having his junk touched knew he'd be patted down with a rather heavy hand.

why is this? because you're refusing to let them scan you. they are scanning you to, in their minds, find bombs or other crap. if you say no, they are trained to assume you are guilty. no different than the cop who pulls you over, asks if you will have a breathalyzer and, upon your refusal, you're taken in.

so, they need to pat you down because you are doing what the guilty would do.

The boy with no shirt video was pretty unclear of exactly what happen, but I don't think people would be infuriated if everything TSA was doing was "routine pat-down". There is something there upsetting peoples common sense of what is right and what is wrong. (at least what is left of it)

How can this be acceptable logical behavior for determining "threats" from "innocents"?!? I mean essentially they are treating everyone boarding an airplane as a "suspect" with absolutely NO legitimate evidence that would ever hold up in court. The constitution is strictly against this, unless were setting a precedent for using the constitution as toilet paper? It defiantly is the implication being made in this case.

The cop who pulls you over at least needs to have "probably cause" (which can be abused). Are you saying that wanting to fly to Georgia to see Granny Annie is probably cause? Wanting to fly at all is probable cause?

now, that doesn't make you guilty but this is how they are trained. Are they doing the pat downs properly? Doubt it. They knocked some guy's colostomy bag loose, resulting in spilled urine (he didn't wet himself as previously mentioned). Again, you refuse the a scan and then say "don't pat this because it's a colostomy bag" and the TSA agent, who is not a doctor, probably not a genius by any means, merely a normal person with training that says "if someone says no, search them, if they seem antsy, trying to keep you from looking at something, look at it. twice. it could be a bomb"

not to offend the TSA agents, who are doing a job and getting all kinds of flack for it but I doubt they're the cream of the crop, education wise. I'm sure they're ordinary joes, doing what they can to survive and their job is to do this.

Look I understand the realities of doing this rigorous searching these TSA monkeys are doing, and yes accidents like a spilled colostomy bag can happen. Jobs should be more than mindless drivel, there is a lot of issues hiring unconcerned people to do a very concerning job. This is a whole other issue all together.

I don't believe half the crap people post about these things because all we see are half videos, barely visible instances with no set up, no complete dialogue etc.

Did a tsa agent slip a hand inside a woman's panties? doubt it was intentional. did a tsa agent pull down a woman's top? probably not intentionally. did other agents make fun? probably. again, we're not talking about ambassadors here.

anyway, you can say we're being prepped for some other horrible thing, you can see this as some leap towards the inevitable fema camps run by stormtroopers who will make us work for food etc or you can merely see this as a gov't attempting to do something so that, when the next attack comes, they can say "hey, we did what we could, based on what we knew at the time"

then, when the new bomb is made from butt cheese, they will want butt sniffing dogs in the airports.

until then, we remove our shoes because someone tried to light his on fire. we get scanned or patted down because some clown tried to light his bvds on fire etc.


if we actually knew what they were doing, we'd stop them. since we can't, our gov't does what it can to minimize legal damage once they fail us again and, in the interim, we won't need to worry about shoe bombs or undebombs because they're looking for them.

This part I agree with, I guess I'm just more passionate about inspiring people to view this as unacceptable circumstances in a nation that was initially designed with freedom in mind, not security.

It's infuriating to know that my daughter will grow up in a world where people think this backwards, where the spine of the country is gone and so with it our one thing that made us a great country, and that is freedom.

We can't be free anymore because we lack the fortitude to stand in the face of terror, fear rules us to the point of insane decisions that are a conflict of interest with what this country once stood for.

Sorry If my ranting comes off as an offensive attack. Its more of a very passionate venting to fuel the paradigm shift this country needs to pull itself out of the gutter. I feel its in vain though.

Before I had a family I wasn't nearly as passionate about the future of this country and was rather happy to think the cowards that ruin this country will get to reap what they sow in their padded cells. However since I had my daughter my passion was ignited to do whatever I could to bring the insanity to attention and do whatever is needed for change. This is all because I know eventually my daughter will have to grow up in this world and I don't want her to suffer the consequences of a less then spine full generation.

I brought her into this world whether she likes it or not, the least I could do is everything I can to make sure she's not a frightened slave surviving on bread and circuses living by someones else s rules.

Originally posted by Shikamaru
I love how I'm recieving criticism from people for stating the absolute truth of the matter. For those that brought up African American Slave Trading practices performed by our ancestors, people fought with blood and sweat and people died for that to be abolished.

Ok first off....how did you equate air travel with slavery???

Secondly, going with your point of view. "Just shut up and live with it."
Would you have told slaves to shut up and live with it?

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by Shikamaru
I love how I'm recieving criticism from people for stating the absolute truth of the matter. For those that brought up African American Slave Trading practices performed by our ancestors, people fought with blood and sweat and people died for that to be abolished.quote]

Ok first off....how did you equate air travel with slavery???

Secondly, going with your point of view. "Just shut up and live with it."
Would you have told slaves to shut up and live with it?

First of all, not this entire quote was mine... somehow you placed your entry inside of my quote... please review the proccess of how to properly quote a user before you make their post look horribly against what was meant to be said.

... Now I have to ask... did you even read the rest of the thread or did you merely just try to misconstrue the first thing you could find that popped your blood vessel and blatantly reply to ONLY that point?

If you read further, you'll see that I didn't equate air travel to slavery, a previous user did and apologized for any confusion his exaggerated anology lead to. So good job again on reading everything before posting.

If you read even further, you'll see that I didnt say shut up and live with it. that's putting more words in my mouth. You'll see that I posted that it requires the masses to decide what to live with, not a few conspiracy theorists...

Please man, before you post.. read everything... you're embarrassing yourself by not.

"They do what they do because its their job to make sure we are safe and perhaps the TPTB are using that to their advantage"

Since you mentioned it, why is TPTB using this irrational fear by the masses to take advantage of the situation? Are they that despicable that they have to take advantage of vulnerable people who are scared of their own shadow? Can people who operate like this be trusted in positions of power? Considering that those in charge are obvious opportunists, shouldn't people be questioning the motives behind these allegedly unsafe and instrusive machines? Shouldn't people be questioning the motives behind the TSA treating everyone like a criminal? Shouldn't people be questioning why TPTB do not have to submit to such humiliating treatment? Shouldn't people question the fact that these new procedures and scanning machines were implemented due to a couple of dubious ALLEGED terrorist attacks? Where does this madness end?

I can see them now in some back room meeting saying we need a new law involving XYZ. So, let's create a terrorist attack involving XYZ to scare the hell out of the masses so they can submit. The fake attacks worked great to get those pervert machines installed and lined our pockets at the taxpayers expense, so this new fake attack should also work wonders.

These procedures have absolutely nothing to do with safety and everything to do with control. And if you don't see that now, you will never see it. It's really very heartwarming to see that people will trade their dignity in exchange for a song and dance from a bunch of disreputable crooks.


"It's pointing out that Americans as a nation gave this power to them, and now we have to make a choice of how we want to travel."

WHO gave them this power? Did Americans actually vote on whether or not they wanted to be bombarded with radiation, have their private parts photographed and kept on a database and be molested by some $10.00 per hour security guard flunky? Sorry, but I think I missed that vote.

All of these unconstitutional intiatives came from the Government with little or no consultation nor input from the masses. So it's okay for the taxpayer to pay for this expensive useless intrusive cancer causing garbage, but it is not okay for that same taxpayer to have any input as to whether or not these death ray pervert machines should be used.

Looks like TPTB is having it's cake and eating it too. That's okay, keep supporting their deceptive agenda, because I'm sure they'll be willing to share some crumbs from their table with you.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Excellently delightful how you believe I'm somehow supporting TPTB by telling the people it's their choice to fight back. What is it exactly that some of you do? Read the 1st or 2nd page of a thread... perhaps just the first response or the first quote? ... Read on Mr. or Mrs. SphinxMontreal and you will proudly be shown how I am actually introducing people to the fact that the masses have to fight back as whole and not only a few individuals.

And you question my placing the people as the power-givers? Well, did you go running around like a chicken with your head cut off when the towers fell on 9/11? Did you go grabbing a pitchfork when 2 men attempted on different occassions to light their underwear and shoes on fire? Did you switch to Mom and Pop's shipping company when you discovered that toners set to explode were discovered on commercial airliners belonging to major commercial shippers. No, perhaps not. But listen up dude... enough people did.

Actions speak louder than words and our first physical reaction to these attacks... was fear.

Do yourself a favor... read the entire thread before you go calling me some TPTB Poster Boy. Because it's the last thing that I am. I'm merely one of many fingers poking the masses to wake up from this slumber they're so deeply in.

Originally posted by Shikamaru

Originally posted by MikeBoss
Look man, I don't want to travel to Asia through some boat that is gonna take like a month to cross the pacific. Unless theres a train I'm happy to take it. I don't think I have any other alternatives but to take the plane.

Exactly sir. In your case you do have an alternative... you just don't want to take it because the sacrifice is too large in your mind. That's perfectly fine in your opinion, and mine.

This means youve already asked yourself:

"Do I want to sacrafice time or do I want to sacrifice my privacy rights?"

The decision you make is your own.

People gave the TSA the power to take sacrafice your rights because people wanted safety.

You can't have a boat get you to asia in 18 hours, and you can't get on a plane and not be super-searched.

The decision... is yours.

Sacrifice time? Its two month of sitting in a boat to Asia and back, you really think people have alot free time instead of going to school and going to work? If you are willing to compensate my opportunity cost going on a boat instead of airplane I be happy to take the boat. For some people like me with school and jobs there is no choice but to go on the airplane and get my privacy violated .

reply to post by MikeBoss


I don't mean to be direct MikeBoss, but if this is the case? What do you intend to do about the searches at TSA checkpoints (that is, if you disagree with them)?

I guess my point is, I understand that some people here might disagree with TSA's travel policies and have no alternative method of travel because they feel there are none.

So what will you do? Start another thread? Start an anti-TSA group and get labeled as a terrorist threat? Perhaps you'll excel in school in politics, try not to be bought out by big companies, and fight to reduce the TSA policies. And when and if another attack occurs... what will you do? Deal with those who accused you of reducing the laws and blame that for being the reason the attack got pulled off? Just where does this lead?

Please Stop the Personal Sniping and Name Calling.


Discuss the Topic: It's the TSA. Get Over It. , Not each other.


TIA

Originally posted by Shikamaru
There are alternate methods of transportation and so many of them:

1. Renting an Automobile / RV / Motorcycle
   
2. Purchasing a Bus Ticket
   
3. Purchasing a Train Ticket
   
4. Purchasing a Boat Ticket
   

You are correct that there other modes of transportation. But how long is it till The "Transportation" Security Administration begin tightening up on your suggested list. They should also be present at all the places you suggest. Bus terminals, Train stations, Piers etc. Whats to stop them from mandating traffic stops on the highway or at toll booths etc. I think people have the right to be a little worried, are they over reacting? Maybe.

But when is enough enough? I enjoy hearing all the claims and articles. I reinforces my opposition.

"I'm merely informing that because it was the peoples' decision to put this type of security into place, it's the peoples' decision to take it out."

Yeah sure...just like it was the people's decision to enact the unPatriot Act, to create the Department of Homeland inSecurity, to bail out a bunch of crooks with hundreds of billions and the list goes on as we speak.


"But, and I stress this highly... posting it on a conspiracy-based website will recieve no attention from the masses."

What's it to you? Do you prefer the hear no evil see no evil route? You know, there are some people out there who think that they've succeeded if they change the mind of just one person. Sorry, we can't all be as ambitious as you.


"Unfortunately, ATS isn't main stream media. It's a community of people who discover what others don't want us to discover."

I can't disagree with you more. Fortunately, ATS isn't mainstream media; actually, with some exceptions, it's a community of people who prefer to think for themselves instead of being force fed a bunch of mind numbing garbage.

You sound like Jesse Ventura: "this is what they don't want you to see." I appreciate the drama, anyway.


"Things like this need to be handled through a "mass" movement. In other words the masses all speaking at once. "

Again, I can't disagree with you more. Things like this need to be handled through a grass roots movement, since it is highly unlikely, impractical and naive to think that the masses will all come together and speak in unison. I must admit, though, that your theory does brings up memories of the goose-step.


"Not by a few people commenting over a few incidents that although may fustrate the reader(s), were what the TSA was doing because it was protocol and yet we accuse them of things with no background evidence."

It seems to me that you're the one who is being frustrated by these few incidents being reported here on ATS. Nice of you to speak for others, though. Again, who put this "protocol" into place? Did the masses vote for this so called "protocol", or was it just thrust upon them in a my way or the highway fashion? Therefore, travelers lodging these apparent valid complaints against the TSA is your idea of "no background evidence"?

Like another member said, if you have a problem with these TSA/Gestapo threads, why don't you just avoid them? Nice of you to play the censor and decide what is and what is not good for everyone, but last time I checked, nobody died and made you king.

Thanks anyway for taking the lead, prescribing medicine to us all and assuming what everybody thinks.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


While I can see the points you make, am I not supposed to be ambitious towards a mass movement of people realising the truth and realising the power they have when they work as a whole?

As far as our descriptions of ATS, I correct myself in what ATS... ATS truly is what the posters and readers want it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

To an earlier poster who wrote of my list of suggested transportation methods being secured by the TSA, there is simply nothing you can do to stop the TSA from securing it at first, but with a mass movement, you can achieve anything the movement puts its mind to.

I know this sounds fictional but in reality, it is true. Unfortunately, we as a race, don't seem to have the ability to think as a whole, we merely think of ourselves individually thus leading to a single body being pulled an infinite amount of directions.

Back to Sphinx, I'm not censoring anyone, I'm merely suggesting that the threads serve no resolve, they merely are filled with posts that tell how bad people think the TSA are. But that being what ATS (what the readers and posters make of it), I suppose you mean to sit back and just let them do as they please. Well, as I said, I'm no censor of public acts, so let them be. That doesn't mean I'll be censored in stating my own opinion, in which you seem to have a problem with.

And again.... please read this sentence a few times.... You didn't cause these acts to be placed into action Sphinx... it wasn't you... it wasn't me.... it was enough people with enough influence. You cannot sit there and say the people had no say in this because in actuality, you have no proof that they didnt. I on the otherhand have proof that they did. I can look up any video on youtube and see people cursing the ones who orchestrated terrorists attacks. I can look up dozens upon dozens of people who stated on mainstream websites demanding the heads of the ones responsible. I can find as much as I could possibly ever want that leads to the people, wanting to be safer and feeding the creation of the TSA.

What can you bring to the table right now that proves otherwise? Do you have thousands of videos saying the TSA is bad? Do you have political news footage with statistics that state the American populace is against the TSA? Do you have footage of an American saying "oh we're not scared of terrorism anymore!". Show me what you have.

Do I wake up everyday thinking I have been programmed? No. That would be crazy.

I think the more threads, the more people talking about it, the better.

Isn't that how things get changed? By first talk, then action? If we are not exercising that, nothing will get done, and worst, our freedoms may slip away.

If being a conspiracy theorist is being scared, hopeless, and quiet, then no thanks.

Originally posted by gandhi
Do I wake up everyday thinking I have been programmed? No. That would be crazy.

I think the more threads, the more people talking about it, the better.

Isn't that how things get changed? By first talk, then action? If we are not exercising that, nothing will get done, and worst, our freedoms may slip away.

If being a conspiracy theorist is being scared, hopeless, and quiet, then no thanks.

edit on 22-11-2010 by gandhi because: (no reason given)

I never said being a conspiracy theorist is being any of those things. I'm just saying it's not the best venue to state your facts so that the sheep can hear you. After all everyone I know that I talk to about this site thinks we're a bunch of loonies. I can't correct them enough but hey, if the sheep don't read it on MSN or CNN, or AOL, they think it's complete balogna.

You're right we do need to talk to get things started. But this might not be the best place to start them. Do you understand what I mean?