It's the TSA. Get Over It.

reply to post by rogerstigers


our flights would, most likely, be on time since we're all expecting to be searched, the TSA wouldn't need to search as many and we'd all be willing to be scanned in our skivvies

not flying is an option for some (if you only fly in the continental US) but if I chose that path, I would never see my homeland again!

If flights don't become more effective and have less delays - then this really will be a big waste of money and the ultimate aim will be clearer. (It's not for our protection, but THEIRS)

Originally posted by Crakeur

we can't have it both ways and, if we're safer as a result of pat downs and nudie cams, so be it.

if the TSA wants to photograph my junk and then grab it to confirm that what little junk I have is mine all mine, and, in return, my flight arrives in Florida 3 hours late and intact, so be it.

Well that's a terrible attitude towards these ridiculous procedures, which in the end come down to more incremental steps and more incremental conditioning. And just because someone couldn't personally care less about what they are subjected to doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to "buck up".

Speaking of safer, someone like you could very well be one of the first to endorse airport anal cams. After all, everyone knows these backscatter x-ray machines are only suppose to barely penetrate the skin surface. What if you, specifically, were housing something even more disastrous then usual in that gaping recess that lies beyond? Even if you were comfortable approaching the TSA bent-over with nothing more than a bar of soap hanging from your neck; the rest of us more than likely wouldn't be on the "so be it" side of the argument.

Anyways, everyone here should see what's going on for exactly what it is and it doesn't have to do with "terrorists". Like the former chief of security of Israel's airport authority, Rafi Sela said, "I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747,".

I love how I'm recieving criticism from people for stating the absolute truth of the matter. For those that brought up African American Slave Trading practices performed by our ancestors, people fought with blood and sweat and people died for that to be abolished. It's like taking the matter of TSA to a completely higher level.

People don't need to die for the TSA to be abolished. We gave them this power when we all said we felt insecure about getting on planes. We gave them this power when we wanted to accuse every person wearing a turban with attempted terrorism charges. We gave them this power when we accepted BECOMING "sheeple" to security experts so that we could feel more safe. Everything in life requires sacrifice. We sacrificed our freedom when we asked for protection from the very body that we accuse of conspiracy.

Do you intentionally shop at a store that has fishy business practices?
Do you intentionally trust the man dressed in rags when we asks you for help in a dark alley?
Do you intentionally hug the man who is sleeping with your significant other behind your back?
Do you intentionally work at an office you know is tied to dirty business?

Everything they have created as a resolve to insecurity, is because WE let them, so don't sit there and type away that I'm accepting being a sheep. I haven't bought a plane ticket nor been a passenger on a plane since I was 9 years old. I know in my heart that what the TSA is practicing is abusing people's rights. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let them abuse mine by walking up to them and playing in their territory. I'll drive. I'll take a train, and I'll ride a boat before I go to an airport and let some stranger touch my genitals and probe my ass because I have a beard and dress in baggy clothing.

If you don't want to take an alternative, don't bother calling me a sheep and letting them do this because I didn't. I didn't personally ask for the TSA to become what it is. I didn't go become super insecure after a terrorist attack on US soil. I didn't become scared of every person i knew who had middle-eastern descent. Am I accusing everyone here of doing that? No. But guess what. Enough people did, and that's why you're living in the world you live in now. Get over it.

Look man, I don't want to travel to Asia through some boat that is gonna take like a month to cross the pacific. Unless theres a train I'm happy to take it. I don't think I have any other alternatives but to take the plane.

Originally posted by MikeBoss
Look man, I don't want to travel to Asia through some boat that is gonna take like a month to cross the pacific. Unless theres a train I'm happy to take it. I don't think I have any other alternatives but to take the plane.

Exactly sir. In your case you do have an alternative... you just don't want to take it because the sacrifice is too large in your mind. That's perfectly fine in your opinion, and mine.

This means youve already asked yourself:

"Do I want to sacrafice time or do I want to sacrifice my privacy rights?"

The decision you make is your own.

People gave the TSA the power to take sacrafice your rights because people wanted safety.

You can't have a boat get you to asia in 18 hours, and you can't get on a plane and not be super-searched.

The decision... is yours.

reply to post by Shikamaru

We KNOW the TSA is screwed up. Does that mean we should be posting a new article everytime some youngster gets his privates touched?

I asked myself that same question and my answer is yes. To many times there are legitimate outcries about something but then it will be allowed to fade away in the press and nothing is ever done.

Americans will only remember things until the next American Idle airs, unless they are constantly reminded why they should be pissed.
You know, a sheep will follow any shepherd as long as you can hold its attention.

Originally posted by Animatrix
reply to post by Shikamaru

 

We KNOW the TSA is screwed up. Does that mean we should be posting a new article everytime some youngster gets his privates touched?

I asked myself that same question and my answer is yes. To many times there are legitimate outcries about something but then it will be allowed to fade away in the press and nothing is ever done.

Americans will only remember things until the next American Idle airs, unless they are constantly reminded why they should be pissed.
You know, a sheep will follow any shepherd as long as you can hold its attention.

Ok, so you post a story... a story that's already in the media. Who's attention have you brought to the situation that is going to do something about it? The police? Government owned. The Government? They empower the TSA. The people? Ok, how many, surely not 100,1000, or close to 10000. And if you did get 10,000 that's a fraction of a fraction of how many people in this country will vote against you because they want to be safe.

The parent is with the child at all times during the TSA's search of the child's body. They have the right to refuse flying if they don't want the search to be done. They knew they were going to get searched when they bought the ticket. But instead of sacrificing time... they sacrificed their rights. It's NOT your judgement call to say that they made a bad choice or not because it was their choice, not yours.

My point here is not saying whether or not you feel it's wrong or right. It's pointing out that Americans as a nation gave this power to them, and now we have to make a choice of how we want to travel. Time-precious or Rights-precious. Posting a sad story or what some call a horror story is doing nothing but giving out information that everyone already knows and that no one is doing anything about it. It's not that I don't care, the majority doesn't care. Be mad at the masses who chose to become victims of this power, not the person who points it all out.

Originally posted by Crakeur
I'm travelling to Florida to stay with my mother outlaw over christmas and I'm considering showing up to the airport in my boxers and flip flops. This way, I don't need a pat down, I don't need to take off my shoes and, I'm guessing, nobody, in their right mind, will want to pat me down.

this is one of those increasingly more common conundrums we face in society. We want to be safe, we want to fly like we did 20 years ago, with no fear of an attack etc but we also want to be able to board the plane without having to remove our shoes, get groped, turn on our laptops etc.

we can't have it both ways and, if we're safer as a result of pat downs and nudie cams, so be it.

if the TSA wants to photograph my junk and then grab it to confirm that what little junk I have is mine all mine, and, in return, my flight arrives in Florida 3 hours late and intact, so be it.

I just need to remember to wear clean drawers.

no, wait, no drawers. let em have their fun.

All in the name of safety? So at what point do you finally say "Hey wait a second, it makes no sense you want to search through my house 3 days a week to make sure the boogie man isn't in my closet! I won't stand for this"

Or will you rather say,
!Ya sure search my stuff so long as I'm safe from Freddy Kruger and Jason!"....


-You do realize you have a better chance of winning the lotto in every state twice then being on a "terrorist" hijacked airplane right?
-You have a better chance being in 3 car wrecks on the way to the airport than being on a hijacked airplane? Where is the TSA on our roads? More people have died from car wrecks in one year than the entire worlds history of hijacked airplanes.

It is completely irrational insanity to think that the "security measures" being undertaken here with the TSA are at all in the least bit justified or necessary on the level they are.

Look I understand you aren't affected by the TSA and their security groping stuff and that's all fine and dandy, but lets not make this a standard thing for everyone to go through.

If you think its worth the molestation and rights violation to save yourself from the super highly unlikely chance your on a hijacked airplane then so be it, you go right ahead and drop your drawers. Me however, I'll take the risk someone can hijack the plane so long as I'm free to be left alone.

Na, we as Americans werent allowed to vote on the DHS, we werent allowed to specify which powers they did or didnt get and we werent allowed to have a say in whether the scanners were installed or not or whether we approved of the intrusive full body rub downs or not.

Hey, I got an Idea. If you find the TSA threads so distressing, skip over them.

oh btw, Shikamarus a pretty good character... "what a drag"

Originally posted by Shikamaru
I love how I'm recieving criticism from people for stating the absolute truth of the matter. For those that brought up African American Slave Trading practices performed by our ancestors, people fought with blood and sweat and people died for that to be abolished. It's like taking the matter of TSA to a completely higher level.

People don't need to die for the TSA to be abolished. We gave them this power when we all said we felt insecure about getting on planes. We gave them this power when we wanted to accuse every person wearing a turban with attempted terrorism charges. We gave them this power when we accepted BECOMING "sheeple" to security experts so that we could feel more safe. Everything in life requires sacrifice. We sacrificed our freedom when we asked for protection from the very body that we accuse of conspiracy.

Do you intentionally shop at a store that has fishy business practices?
Do you intentionally trust the man dressed in rags when we asks you for help in a dark alley?
Do you intentionally hug the man who is sleeping with your significant other behind your back?
Do you intentionally work at an office you know is tied to dirty business?

Everything they have created as a resolve to insecurity, is because WE let them, so don't sit there and type away that I'm accepting being a sheep. I haven't bought a plane ticket nor been a passenger on a plane since I was 9 years old. I know in my heart that what the TSA is practicing is abusing people's rights. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let them abuse mine by walking up to them and playing in their territory. I'll drive. I'll take a train, and I'll ride a boat before I go to an airport and let some stranger touch my genitals and probe my ass because I have a beard and dress in baggy clothing.

If you don't want to take an alternative, don't bother calling me a sheep and letting them do this because I didn't. I didn't personally ask for the TSA to become what it is. I didn't go become super insecure after a terrorist attack on US soil. I didn't become scared of every person i knew who had middle-eastern descent. Am I accusing everyone here of doing that? No. But guess what. Enough people did, and that's why you're living in the world you live in now. Get over it.

edit on 22-11-2010 by Shikamaru because: hit the wrong reply to button

I completely agree with most of what you are saying, however to ignore the issue will only convince them to take more and more until there is nothing left.

I used the analogy of slavery as an exaggeration to make a point. Its like using an expletive to get someones attention.

Yes we did give them all this power because we are scared little children running around in fear of our own shadows begging and pleading for protection without even considering the consequences. We are essentially building one giant padded cell to live in.

I don't agree with it and I know I don't want my children growing up in a padded cell. They need to be free and accept and understand the consequences of freedom. Its the lack of security but hopefully they wont be so fearful of the world they go along with the current trend of this padded cell so long as we are safe.

Originally posted by Sly1one

Originally posted by Crakeur
I'm travelling to Florida to stay with my mother outlaw over christmas and I'm considering showing up to the airport in my boxers and flip flops. This way, I don't need a pat down, I don't need to take off my shoes and, I'm guessing, nobody, in their right mind, will want to pat me down.

this is one of those increasingly more common conundrums we face in society. We want to be safe, we want to fly like we did 20 years ago, with no fear of an attack etc but we also want to be able to board the plane without having to remove our shoes, get groped, turn on our laptops etc.

we can't have it both ways and, if we're safer as a result of pat downs and nudie cams, so be it.

if the TSA wants to photograph my junk and then grab it to confirm that what little junk I have is mine all mine, and, in return, my flight arrives in Florida 3 hours late and intact, so be it.

I just need to remember to wear clean drawers.

no, wait, no drawers. let em have their fun.

All in the name of safety? So at what point do you finally say "Hey wait a second, it makes no sense you want to search through my house 3 days a week to make sure the boogie man isn't in my closet! I won't stand for this"

Or will you rather say,
!Ya sure search my stuff so long as I'm safe from Freddy Kruger and Jason!"....


-You do realize you have a better chance of winning the lotto in every state twice then being on a "terrorist" hijacked airplane right?
-You have a better chance being in 3 car wrecks on the way to the airport than being on a hijacked airplane? Where is the TSA on our roads? More people have died from car wrecks in one year than the entire worlds history of hijacked airplanes.

It is completely irrational insanity to think that the "security measures" being undertaken here with the TSA are at all in the least bit justified or necessary on the level they are.

Look I understand you aren't affected by the TSA and their security groping stuff and that's all fine and dandy, but lets not make this a standard thing for everyone to go through.

If you think its worth the molestation and rights violation to save yourself from the super highly unlikely chance your on a hijacked airplane then so be it, you go right ahead and drop your drawers. Me however, I'll take the risk someone can hijack the plane so long as I'm free to be left alone.

Crakeur is not implying that we should be OK with the TSA policy. He is not MAKING it standard nor implying that it SHOULD be standard. He's simply pointing out the facts, and making a point that people are purely conflicted between whether or not they want to sacrifice rights for safety.

Second the TSA doesn't search your house every 3 days nor does it have a plan in place to do so, AS FAR AS WE KNOW (because I know you'll try to grind that in my face). And no matter how small the chances of an airliner terrorist attack are, people don't want to take it so they won't. They'll continue to let the TSA search them.

NO ONE here thinks molestation is OK, no one here thinks privacy violations are OK. By you stating that, you're merely shoving words into our mouths, which is completely uncalled for. All we're saying is if you don't like it, don't fly.

I don't like that cops use speed traps on my roads but I also wouldn't like it if my future kid was walking down the road and got hit by a guy going 90mph, so I'm glad that speed trap is there.

I don't like that when I go to a club, I get scanned by a metal detector and have to remove my jacket sometimes, but I'm glad I don't have to worry about getting shot by some drunk man who gets mad cause someone's flirting with his woman.

I don't like when I go to a store and get asked to see my receipt at my favorite store but I'm also glad that they stop thieves from taking everything they have so they dont go out of business and I lose my favorite store.

Enough examples for you?

It's the TSA. Get over it.

reply to post by Sly1one


who's to say I'm safe? I'm travelling in about a month. Maybe they'll pat me down, maybe they'll scan my wife.

maybe they won't.

I won't know until I see them but I do know that the videos I'm seeing are being blown out of proportion and are all a result of people refusing to be scanned. they knew this would be the other alternative.

the boy with no shirt? his father took it off. the tsa agent isn't fondling the kid.
the man who warned about having his junk touched knew he'd be patted down with a rather heavy hand.

why is this? because you're refusing to let them scan you. they are scanning you to, in their minds, find bombs or other crap. if you say no, they are trained to assume you are guilty. no different than the cop who pulls you over, asks if you will have a breathalyzer and, upon your refusal, you're taken in.

so, they need to pat you down because you are doing what the guilty would do.

now, that doesn't make you guilty but this is how they are trained. Are they doing the pat downs properly? Doubt it. They knocked some guy's colostomy bag loose, resulting in spilled urine (he didn't wet himself as previously mentioned). Again, you refuse the a scan and then say "don't pat this because it's a colostomy bag" and the TSA agent, who is not a doctor, probably not a genius by any means, merely a normal person with training that says "if someone says no, search them, if they seem antsy, trying to keep you from looking at something, look at it. twice. it could be a bomb"


not to offend the TSA agents, who are doing a job and getting all kinds of flack for it but I doubt they're the cream of the crop, education wise. I'm sure they're ordinary joes, doing what they can to survive and their job is to do this.

I don't believe half the crap people post about these things because all we see are half videos, barely visible instances with no set up, no complete dialogue etc.

Did a tsa agent slip a hand inside a woman's panties? doubt it was intentional. did a tsa agent pull down a woman's top? probably not intentionally. did other agents make fun? probably. again, we're not talking about ambassadors here.


anyway, you can say we're being prepped for some other horrible thing, you can see this as some leap towards the inevitable fema camps run by stormtroopers who will make us work for food etc or you can merely see this as a gov't attempting to do something so that, when the next attack comes, they can say "hey, we did what we could, based on what we knew at the time"

then, when the new bomb is made from butt cheese, they will want butt sniffing dogs in the airports.

until then, we remove our shoes because someone tried to light his on fire. we get scanned or patted down because some clown tried to light his bvds on fire etc.


if we actually knew what they were doing, we'd stop them. since we can't, our gov't does what it can to minimize legal damage once they fail us again and, in the interim, we won't need to worry about shoe bombs or undebombs because they're looking for them.

OP is missing the point.

They will soon pat you down to get on a bus..
Heck, even to get gas one day I bet.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
OP is missing the point.

They will soon pat you down to get on a bus..
Heck, even to get gas one day I bet.

Exactly right... One day soon a "bomber"will be found on a bus, train or subway and the CEO of the scanning machines will get richer and the DHS/TSA will grow even larger.
Then a large bridge will blow up and theyll have check points on each side of every major bridge in the country.
Once the Govt is able to crack the door on something, they arent happy till its all the way open.
Some people never learn.

Originally posted by Animatrix

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
OP is missing the point.

They will soon pat you down to get on a bus..
Heck, even to get gas one day I bet.

Exactly right... One day soon a "bomber"will be found on a bus, train or subway and the CEO of the scanning machines will get richer and the DHS/TSA will grow even larger.
Then a large bridge will blow up and theyll have check points on each side of every major bridge in the country.
Once the Govt is able to crack the door on something, they arent happy till its all the way open.
Some people never learn.

And then what? You'll be mad at the TSA for scanning bus travellers? I'm not missing any point, a few of you are merely avoiding it. They do what they do because its their job to make sure we are safe and perhaps the TPTB are using that to their advantage, but in the end, you have your choices of transportation.

Don't criticize me because I actually realise it. Look in the mirror and realise that you're whining about people doing things that you let them do to you. I'm pretty shocked at the amount of you who are so quick to claim "Shikamaru's not getting it! It's wrong! It's bad! We'll keep posting cause it's not right!" yet are so slow to understand that you have a choice.

reply to post by Shikamaru


Nobody is criticizing you and youre the one whining dude..
Like i said, if youre tired of the TSA threads, skip them instead of making another one.

reply to post by Animatrix


Yes I see how me presenting a perfectly clear arguement to everyone's threads is purely a whine. This is what I meant by AVOIDING the point.

reply to post by Shikamaru


You are missing the points I am trying to make. I used the "3 day house search" as an over exaggerated analogy as to what essentially the whole airplane security theme is about, basically people are choosing security over freedom because they are terrified with every news headline of "terrorist attempts"...

You even see this yourself yet apparently you are choosing to ACCEPT this as if its something that is out of your control? As if your acceptance of TSA policy as being justified will somehow make it right?

I guess I'm confused at where you stand on the issue. Either you think the TSA security measures are justified and necesarry and the paranoia in the masses is also justified in asking for those TSA security measures, OR, you don't and think people should stop being frighten cattle choosing between being frisked or X-ray bbq.

I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouths but understand THAT is how I am interpreting what you are saying. Essentially you subdue yourself to insanity to feel more secure as well no? Because that is what I'm am interpreting you as saying. Even if you aren't ok with it you appear to be going along with it, which is ultimately has the same effect. It doesn't matter what you think unless you act in a manner that reinforces your beliefs, this is why actions speak louder than words. So either you are against it and you act against it by speaking out against it etc etc, or you are for it and accept it.

Maybe I am just dumbfounded by the lack of will left in people to call things out that are blatantly wrong regardless of what fear induced masses think. Since when did people on ATS go along with the crowd? Again I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, but rather trying to say what it is I feel like you are saying.