2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

This is a sad state of affairs for the Buddhist community which is already in deep turmoil politically. It is best to wait for the right answers to come forward in this matter as I am positive there will be a good explanation and not the morbid one people on this thread are alluding to.

If the abortionists use the monastery for the removal of the fetuses well it is better than discovering them in trash bins in the backside of clinics in other countries.

Remember this one?

"Where do aborted fetuses really go?"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Abortion is illegal in Thailand. This kind of thing happens when abortion is illegal. It's not a Buddhist thing, it's an illegal abortion thing. If abortion were legal, these fetuses would have been properly handled and not 'hidden'.

really?

Aborted babies, patient records found in MI abortion mill dumpster; laws to stop introduced
www.jillstanek.com...

And this is not the only place this happens.

On January 22, on the 28th anniversary of Roe vs. Wade, the Rev. Msgr. Edward Kavanagh of Sacramento lead a burial service at the Sacramento Sewage Treatment plant for the "aborted babies flushed into the Sacramento area sewers".

www.sffaith.com...

What do some hospitals do with babies that are aborted but still alive? Throw them in the 'dirty room.' What happens if a nurse reports such treatment? They're fired. What happens when hospitals violate the Born Alive Infants Protection Act and falsify legal documents? My guest, Jill Stanek, a nurse-now journalist, who goes where few women dare to go...bravely exposing the abortion industry's true face, talked with me about this on the show today.

She told of a nurse named 'Abby' who had an experience very similar to her own when she found an aborted baby boy that was still alive in the hospital 'dirty' room, left unattended to die. She reported this incident as well as other similar ones, but sadly, babies are aborted alive more often than is known...even to the mothers.

www.renewamerica.com...

put in a bio-hazard bag and thrown out to die.

Minority women constitute only about 13% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximately 36% of the abortions.

Yes it is very humane where it is legal,

Originally posted by filosophia
Considering Buddhists do not believe in harming any life, abortion is not something a Buddhist doctor would consider to be morally imperative. That said, this temple is not Buddhist.

Years ago I was wondering the Buddhist stand on abortion and found there is a gray area
buddhism.about.com...

The First Precept

The First Precept of Buddhism often is translated "I undertake to refrain from destroying life." Some schools of Buddhism make a distinction between animal and plant life, and some do not. Although human life is most important, the Precept cautions us to refrain from taking life in any of its countless manifestations.

That said, there is no question that terminating a pregnancy is an extremely serious matter. Abortion is considered to be taking a human life and is strongly discouraged in Buddhist teachings. However, I do not believe any school of Buddhism absolutely forbids it.

Buddhism teaches us not to impose our views on others and to have compassion for those facing difficult situations. Although some predominantly Buddhist countries, such as Thailand, place legal restrictions on abortion, many Buddhists do not think the state should intervene in matters of conscience.

reply to post by TrueBrit


You were right to point out my obvious disregard for the whole story and unwarranted remarks of a group of people who do have a history of tolerance.

I don't have any grandchildren yet but I do have my nieces and I'm thankful that they were born into this world to have a chance at life. When I do read articles of the battle for the rights of abortion, I can't help but to think about what kind of person would this aborted child grow up to be.

As for your friend that was pregnant. No one has to live in fear like the fear you described that she lives in. It is quite clear her boyfriend is a mentally imbalanced and should be checked out by a professional before he does anyone serious harm.

Like I said, when I jump to conclusions, I need to be pointed out the faults I have made.

BTW, thanks for criticism. I needed that and you get a star.

reply to post by FlyersFan


How do you know that it's painful?

That's right. We have no way of knowing because we'd be dead if we did.

As another poster pointed out, this is what happens when abortion is illegal. It's sad that people will only blame the Buddhist temple itself, preach about the horrors of abortion and ignore the root cause. Nothing new to see here.

Not to complicate this thing any further, but none of you are looking at this from a Buddhist perspective. There are many ways to practice Buddhism, but the fundamental path is at least similar. Please do read this link to get an overall picture. It is very broad and general and this should serve to at least make you all aware of what it is and isn't.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Buddhists see life as a path. That path must be lived. Things have to happen, lessons are learned by making "mistakes" (though this is not the same concept as we generally understand "mistakes" to be, since all is simply experience and going on one's path), tolerance is of the utmost importance. To think that all Buddhists live by the ideal precepts, as monks/rinpoches/lamas strive to do, would be like all of you average joe Christians, Muslims, and Jews living like your clerics. You don't! Don't think Buddhists are different. They are, in fact, more tolerant of their humanity, in many ways.

But Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion. It's a lot freer but a lot more strict, depending where you are on your path. No one will come in unasked and tell you you're doing it wrong because there is no wrong.

There could be more tolerance in viewing this matter too. People do the best they can. You do too, though you stumble and fall just like everyone else.

"The undertakers could each be sent to prison for up to a year and fined 2,000 baht ($67)"

$67..... what?

You blame Buddhist monks for what other people do?
The monks try (try) to teach others to live a good life.
They are not the police or do they inform on people.
The monks help the living and the dead.
They will do what they can to stop it.
But Buddhist monks NEVER judge people.
Karma does that. And NOT man...

reply to post by MurrayTORONTO


This is how things are there: I was on holiday in Bangkok some years ago. I heard this story one evening of the month I stayed there with my family. It broke my heart.

There was a young couple who had a two-month-old baby girl. They took her to the hospital because she had a heart defect that only surgery could mend. So the father/husband went off to the families to collect the 1200baht they needed for the surgery. Trouble was, he never came back. He took off with the money he collected and abandoned mother and child. The mother was so distraught that she threw the baby out the window of the hospital to her death. I don't recall what the mother did, whether she jumped too or not, but it was absolutely the most heartbreaking thing I had heard. We spent that much in half a day there just goofing around. I would have given her twice that without hesitation if I had got wind of it in time.

Such is life. Life is suffering until you can find a way to make it stop. Suffering comes from attachment.

Now, years later, I don't suffer when I hear these things. It is what it is.

reply to post by Intelearthling


Sex and energies(cough cough).

Of course sick things happen. Religion has alot to do with sexual energy, so of course peopel will get all sorts of ideas, and its probably going back all through time, back to when ever the light first came in.

Just a quick note of reason. Nowhere in the Bible does god say thou shalt not commit abortion. Yes, abortion existed during Biblical times and long before. There are many plants that were used to induce abortion. The fact is, god felt that speaking out against poly cotton blends was more important.

Documented in the Bible is an example of an involuntary abortion and what the repayment for loss of fetus should be compared to that of a person. The fetus, by god's own admission, is not worth nearly as much as a human life. Exodus 21:22.

Separation of church and state is not solely for the sake of the state. It's one thing to oppose abortion on your own tried and true moral grounds, quite another to oppose it based on false information spoon fed to you from the pulpit.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

On January 22, on the 28th anniversary of Roe vs. Wade, the Rev. Msgr. Edward Kavanagh of Sacramento lead a burial service at the Sacramento Sewage Treatment plant for the "aborted babies flushed into the Sacramento area sewers".

www.sffaith.com...

The commonest place to miscarry is on the toilet,
as miscarriage, while it's happening, is frequently mistaken for an abdominal upset.

So there is no reason to believe foetuses found in the sewerage system have been aborted.

Nature destroys far more embryos/foetuses than humans do.

Minority women constitute only about 13% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximately 36% of the abortions.

People living in poverty often feel unable to give children a decent life.
Done anything to help Americans in poverty lately?

This thread title is so misleading...

It is very compassionate of the Thai Monestary to accept those aborted infants for proper ceremony and cremation.

reply to post by MurrayTORONTO


lol, i know.

but that is alot of money there for the normal thai.

reply to post by Intelearthling

I thought Buddhism was a life-loving religion? This goes to show the world the kind of charade another religion can put on while in fact promoting death to the truly innocent.

I've only read your OP, so I'm going to start with this.
You thought, did you? No you didn't. You received an opinion filtered through the opiner's perspective & filtered that through your own perspective. This process, fellow ATSer, is an example of the very essence of Buddhism, ie what you think you know is an illusion. Just what ideas make up the filters that whoever told you Buddhism was a "life-loving religion" screen their own thoughts through? What ideas screen yours?
No need to answer. You speak English as a fluent American. Your perspective therefor is judeo-christian, whether you were brought up religiously or not. Its in the very syntax of our language.
You have no idea why a Buddhist would take a foetus into a temple, any more than you know why a lifelong vegetarian Buddhist monk/nun would willingly consent to their body being cooked & eaten, after their death, by their fellow monks/nuns. Well, do you?

reply to post by FlyersFan

Abortion is such a painful way to die.

Is that so? Compared to what? A drug overdose that reduces the brains function to that of a foetus whilst the body dies of respiratory failure? Or, perhaps @another extreme, 5-6yrs in & out of hospital for chemotherapy, reducing the body to a merely just functioning biological machine that would pack up under the distress, were it not for the grease of palliative care, but does so in the end anyway? How about several years of desperately wishing you were not here, but not having access to a painless death, so finally throwing yourself off a high structure, or worse, shooting up a place so that you finally have no option but to shoot yourself, or end up in prison for years before you do finally get executed?

See, both my bio kids were born wide awake. I loved them from the moment I met them. Those memories are some of the best that I treasure. They're very special people to me. That doesn't mean I delude myself that they were any more self-aware than a dog during their babyhood. In fact, probably less so.

All up in arms about illegal abortions in Bangkok yet unconcerned with how these unwanted pregnancies were created in the first place? Bangkok is THE number one place for western men to go on child sex holidays.. yet some of you lot only have moral qualms with the high rate of abortions that result.

Funny laws they have over there.. the child sex industry is flourishing under the watchful blind eye of their police yet only dead fetuses make world news.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

If a person can't report a known criminal act, then they are an accessory to that crime.

Like all those white and black people fighting again segregation.

But hey, who cares if the law is unjust? I mean, if I AGREE with it, hey, it's all right by me! Of course, all those OTHER laws that I don't like are the unjust ones!

Right?

Herpderp

In before you play dumb and don't understand how the civil disobedience shown by MLK and the civil rights movement is no different than this, again with religion playing a role like before.

But hey, I'm sure Christ still loves you even though you've shown unChristian principles by blindly hating on a group because they did something you don't agree with. Because you see, Christ isn't a hypocrite who thinks one thing and then says another.

Hell, you won't see me saying every Christian is a hypocritical bigot who preaches the faith yet doesn't follow what some would see as the more pertinent teachings. Because I mean, if ONE Christian is doing it, clearly ALL of them must be too!

I really can't believe how stupid and hypocritical some people are. My god.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

If a person can't report a known criminal act, then they are an accessory to that crime.

Like all those white and black people fighting again segregation.

But hey, who cares if the law is unjust? I mean, if I AGREE with it, hey, it's all right by me! Of course, all those OTHER laws that I don't like are the unjust ones!

Right?

Herpderp

In before you play dumb and don't understand how the civil disobedience shown by MLK and the civil rights movement is no different than this, again with religion playing a role like before.

But hey, I'm sure Christ still loves you even though you've shown unChristian principles by blindly hating on a group because they did something you don't agree with. Because you see, Christ isn't a hypocrite who thinks one thing and then says another.

Hell, you won't see me saying every Christian is a hypocritical bigot who preaches the faith yet doesn't follow what some would see as the more pertinent teachings. Because I mean, if ONE Christian is doing it, clearly ALL of them must be too!

I really can't believe how stupid and hypocritical some people are. My god.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

If a person can't report a known criminal act, then they are an accessory to that crime.

Like all those white and black people fighting again segregation.

But hey, who cares if the law is unjust? I mean, if I AGREE with it, hey, it's all right by me! Of course, all those OTHER laws that I don't like are the unjust ones!

Right?

Herpderp

In before you play dumb and don't understand how the civil disobedience shown by MLK and the civil rights movement is no different than this, again with religion playing a role like before.

But hey, I'm sure Christ still loves you even though you've shown unChristian principles by blindly hating on a group because they did something you don't agree with. Because you see, Christ isn't a hypocrite who thinks one thing and then says another.

Hell, you won't see me saying every Christian is a hypocritical bigot who preaches the faith yet doesn't follow what some would see as the more pertinent teachings. Because I mean, if ONE Christian is doing it, clearly ALL of them must be too!

I really can't believe how stupid and hypocritical some people are. My god.