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The new Banana Republic -- the USofA
page: 3share:
reply to post by brianmg5
Until that is the case, becoming financially literate and getting involved in investments is a really good way to ensure your financial survival. There are enough resources on the web which can help make it easier to begin.
Originally posted by brianmg5
It's not that I'm too stupid to invest and make money, it's that I don't have any interest in it. And you may say, "well, than that's your decision" but in reality, the system could be set-up in a such a way where you can be successful without having to put tons of time and energy into educating yourself on the basics of investing.
Until that is the case, becoming financially literate and getting involved in investments is a really good way to ensure your financial survival. There are enough resources on the web which can help make it easier to begin.
Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by blah yada
Ok then what else do you propose? Given you don't get the freedom to make your own wealth. Any successful communist countries?
I hate to tell you this, but China owns the keys to our car, and last I looked, they are Commies
Originally posted by TheBandit795
You can take calculated risks, it's possible to gain 5% per month in forex or in managed portfolios. They do exist, and there do exist some with a low entry level but remain hidden from the public. Of course there are risks involved, but nothing in life is without risk.
Are you one of those people pitching offshore accounts in the Cayman islands? This sounds like spam most people receive daily. "Unique opportunity the Fed doesn't want you to know about". Hidden from the public... Right.
HERE IS THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING ALL THIS:
Our definitions of capitalism and socialism are outdated. They were devised in a much earlier, nearly agrarian time and reinforced in the childhood years of the industrial revolution. The fundamental difference, the massive change we have experienced to make all of our previous concepts of economic thought outdated is THE EXPLOSION IN PRODUCTIVITY. Increases in technology have made it possible for capitalists to largely leave behind their labor forces and greatly increase the effect of capital investment.
The result of this is that, increasingly, more people in modern, industrialized countries will have no value to the system they once served. Bottom line, we just don't need ditch diggers anymore. Unfortunately, through the accidents of genetics or environment, many people are just not capable of much more. This whole phenomenon will only increase moving forward.
The old models are now unworkable. The question we have to answer is whether the value of a human being is based on what he can contribute to the economy or whether it is something intrinsic. If we choose the former, we will continue our slide into massive unemployment and something indeed similar to what we think of as a banana republic. If we choose the latter we will have to accept a much more aggressive form of income redistribution.
Our definitions of capitalism and socialism are outdated. They were devised in a much earlier, nearly agrarian time and reinforced in the childhood years of the industrial revolution. The fundamental difference, the massive change we have experienced to make all of our previous concepts of economic thought outdated is THE EXPLOSION IN PRODUCTIVITY. Increases in technology have made it possible for capitalists to largely leave behind their labor forces and greatly increase the effect of capital investment.
The result of this is that, increasingly, more people in modern, industrialized countries will have no value to the system they once served. Bottom line, we just don't need ditch diggers anymore. Unfortunately, through the accidents of genetics or environment, many people are just not capable of much more. This whole phenomenon will only increase moving forward.
The old models are now unworkable. The question we have to answer is whether the value of a human being is based on what he can contribute to the economy or whether it is something intrinsic. If we choose the former, we will continue our slide into massive unemployment and something indeed similar to what we think of as a banana republic. If we choose the latter we will have to accept a much more aggressive form of income redistribution.
reply to post by buddhasystem
And all this is surely a direct correlation to the power and size of the government .
And all this is surely a direct correlation to the power and size of the government .
Originally posted by russ212
I am really tired of hearing people whine about how bad things are for them and how they shouldnt have to do the hard things to get ahead. How do you think the wealthy got wealthy? They either inherited it from someone that had to work their butt off to get it, or they worked their butt off.
This is exactly why people are bitching - the majority of people with money did nothing to earn it - their great grandparents fleeced all of our great grandparents, and now the US is their playground, and people like you are basically sticking up for the bullies of the schoolyard.
If someone has 5 million that they inherited from daddy, and I have nothing and inherited nothing, what makes them a better person? how come they are not lazy? this is why people are pissed, Americans are mostly low income (if you earn less than 100k a year, youre low income) and can NEVER get ahead with the way the rules are set up.
The rules are made by those with money, so they can keep their money.....
reply to post by aching_knuckles
Fair, China is a very good example.
They, with other Asian countries are trying to buy out American debt.
But, would you trade America for China? Living as a normal person, with half you salary. Living in a city that is actually too congested? You can't really go on the internet and sites like ATS will be out of question.
What is driving China is competition and to do better or else your screwed, go to school from 8am till 8pm or else you will have a very hard life.
I highly doubt you will trade.
If anything all great world empires fell because people got too comfortable.
Fair, China is a very good example.
They, with other Asian countries are trying to buy out American debt.
But, would you trade America for China? Living as a normal person, with half you salary. Living in a city that is actually too congested? You can't really go on the internet and sites like ATS will be out of question.
What is driving China is competition and to do better or else your screwed, go to school from 8am till 8pm or else you will have a very hard life.
I highly doubt you will trade.
If anything all great world empires fell because people got too comfortable.
edit on 10-11-2010 by kykweer because: (no reason given)
reply to post by buddhasystem
Did you see me pitching off-shore accounts??
But anyway, I'm not posting links to any of those managed accounts, forex opportunities that I'm talking about (considering the Terms and Conditions of the site), but they do exist. And the main reason a small minority profit from them, is because the majority of people "know" they are scams, and consider any public mention of them as "too good to be true" or spam...
Yeah, the rich will get richer by continuing to accumulate the wealth that used to be that of the rest, and of course owning the new means of production and resources on the planet.
The poor continue to depend on their salaries for their well being while the rich will continue to diversify their income so they will continue to thrive in case one or more sources of income fails. They educate themselves on new opportunities and, make informed decisions and calculated risks, and jump in.
As I speak, wealthy people are buying land and other resources in developing countries (even borrowing money to do so), seeing that agriculture will be booming in the future due to an increased demand for food (due to countries like China & India becoming more developed, and having a growing middle class).
Did you see me pitching off-shore accounts??
But anyway, I'm not posting links to any of those managed accounts, forex opportunities that I'm talking about (considering the Terms and Conditions of the site), but they do exist. And the main reason a small minority profit from them, is because the majority of people "know" they are scams, and consider any public mention of them as "too good to be true" or spam...
Yeah, the rich will get richer by continuing to accumulate the wealth that used to be that of the rest, and of course owning the new means of production and resources on the planet.
The poor continue to depend on their salaries for their well being while the rich will continue to diversify their income so they will continue to thrive in case one or more sources of income fails. They educate themselves on new opportunities and, make informed decisions and calculated risks, and jump in.
As I speak, wealthy people are buying land and other resources in developing countries (even borrowing money to do so), seeing that agriculture will be booming in the future due to an increased demand for food (due to countries like China & India becoming more developed, and having a growing middle class).
reply to post by kykweer
Soon you might be begging to trade:
www.spiegel.de...
www.financialsense.com...
Originally posted by kykweer
I highly doubt you will trade.
Soon you might be begging to trade:
www.spiegel.de...
www.financialsense.com...
reply to post by aching_knuckles
If ignorance is bliss you are the happiest person in the world.
I never said that people that inherited money aren't lazy, I am sure that a majority of them are. But if I am able to gather some wealth I want to be able to leave that to my children so they don't have to work as hard as I have.
I make less than forty thousand dollars a year, but I don't want someone taking something owned by someone else to give me a little hand out. I am willing to accept charity, but not stolen goods. Why is it that you feel you are entitled to someone else's money more than they are.
I am not standing up for the bully, but I do expect more personal accountablity from the people in this country. Why are we so worried about what we don't have and what others do have? If more people make good decisions, work harder, stop expecting something for nothing, and stop thinking that they are owed something for simply being born then the whole world will be better off.
I am tired of the word "deserve". It is tossed around all of the time. "Get the car you deserve", "get the big screen tv, or house you deserve". Every American deserves healthcare. What have YOU done to deserve these things.
You don't deserve anything you don't earn, and being born does not mean you earned something. If your parents have money to give you, good for you. If not stop bitching about it and do something about it.
Redistibuting wealth is just a nice way of saying, stealing from one person because someone else thinks they need it.
Here is the real problem with stealing from rich people to give it to the common man. You have to put someone in charge of a system to make this happen. This will breed corruption at its worst. Do you trust them not to say that 50,000 is not rich someday. I know that I don't because once you steal the wealth from the billionares, you start on the millionares, you then have to take from people that make less and less. The greed of people like you can not be quenched. There is not enough wealth in the country. Eventually there will only be poor people, and that does not help anyone.
If ignorance is bliss you are the happiest person in the world.
I never said that people that inherited money aren't lazy, I am sure that a majority of them are. But if I am able to gather some wealth I want to be able to leave that to my children so they don't have to work as hard as I have.
I make less than forty thousand dollars a year, but I don't want someone taking something owned by someone else to give me a little hand out. I am willing to accept charity, but not stolen goods. Why is it that you feel you are entitled to someone else's money more than they are.
I am not standing up for the bully, but I do expect more personal accountablity from the people in this country. Why are we so worried about what we don't have and what others do have? If more people make good decisions, work harder, stop expecting something for nothing, and stop thinking that they are owed something for simply being born then the whole world will be better off.
I am tired of the word "deserve". It is tossed around all of the time. "Get the car you deserve", "get the big screen tv, or house you deserve". Every American deserves healthcare. What have YOU done to deserve these things.
You don't deserve anything you don't earn, and being born does not mean you earned something. If your parents have money to give you, good for you. If not stop bitching about it and do something about it.
Redistibuting wealth is just a nice way of saying, stealing from one person because someone else thinks they need it.
Here is the real problem with stealing from rich people to give it to the common man. You have to put someone in charge of a system to make this happen. This will breed corruption at its worst. Do you trust them not to say that 50,000 is not rich someday. I know that I don't because once you steal the wealth from the billionares, you start on the millionares, you then have to take from people that make less and less. The greed of people like you can not be quenched. There is not enough wealth in the country. Eventually there will only be poor people, and that does not help anyone.
There is a counter to this hyper-capitalist nightmare.
The counter is strict regulation.
Cap Executive pay at 40x average employee pay. If you wanna get MEGA rich, you're going to have to make your companies employees at least "well off" financially. No more legalized wage slavery. No paying as little as possible to 95% of the employees (who actually produce 99.9% of all of the results!) while paying the "privileged" employees astronomical salaries and diamond level benefits and bonuses that dwarf employees wages and penchants.
The problem is the sense of ENTITLEMENT is so powerful in America that making decisions that are good for your fellow human beings and good for the nation is seen as INSANITY when compared to taking advantage o the opportunity to claim as much as possible for yourself.
It is so deep in our culture that even the poor would be angered in great numbers because, of course, they might get rich someday and they want it all for themselves too!
The counter is strict regulation.
Cap Executive pay at 40x average employee pay. If you wanna get MEGA rich, you're going to have to make your companies employees at least "well off" financially. No more legalized wage slavery. No paying as little as possible to 95% of the employees (who actually produce 99.9% of all of the results!) while paying the "privileged" employees astronomical salaries and diamond level benefits and bonuses that dwarf employees wages and penchants.
The problem is the sense of ENTITLEMENT is so powerful in America that making decisions that are good for your fellow human beings and good for the nation is seen as INSANITY when compared to taking advantage o the opportunity to claim as much as possible for yourself.
It is so deep in our culture that even the poor would be angered in great numbers because, of course, they might get rich someday and they want it all for themselves too!
Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Originally posted by russ212
I am really tired of hearing people whine about how bad things are for them and how they shouldnt have to do the hard things to get ahead. How do you think the wealthy got wealthy? They either inherited it from someone that had to work their butt off to get it, or they worked their butt off.
This is exactly why people are bitching - the majority of people with money did nothing to earn it - their great grandparents fleeced all of our great grandparents, and now the US is their playground, and people like you are basically sticking up for the bullies of the schoolyard.
If someone has 5 million that they inherited from daddy, and I have nothing and inherited nothing, what makes them a better person? how come they are not lazy? this is why people are pissed, Americans are mostly low income (if you earn less than 100k a year, youre low income) and can NEVER get ahead with the way the rules are set up.
The rules are made by those with money, so they can keep their money.....
I can guarantee you that all businessmen do not work from 9 to 5 Monday to Friday.
They work a lot harder, and call it upbringing, good DNA whatever, but you inherit personal characteristics from the people your surrounded by, if you were surrounded by millionaires as a boy, chances are good that you will be surrounded by millionaires when your older, not because you're lucky, but because of the way they were brought up.
Sure, not everyone is that lucky, but what prevents you from studying Bill Gates or Warren Buffet? Both are amazing people, Bill Gates has donated over 12 Billion to charity. And their wealth of knowledge is all over the internet.
These people don't work 9 to 5, they work 7 days a week, at least 12 hours a day.
edit on 10-11-2010 by kykweer because: (no reason
given)
A couple of different indicators of a Banana Republic are (1) the amount of debt that they have as a nation and (2) usually a high percentage of GDP
spent on military while ignoring issues and needs of their people.
I'd say the US of A is definitely on track for Banana Republic status with BOTH of these points.
I'd say the US of A is definitely on track for Banana Republic status with BOTH of these points.
Originally posted by buddhasystem
I always thought that a few numbers can go a long way in putting things in perspective. Here, let's look at the dynamics of income distribution and taxation in the US:
NYT column
The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana.
C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.
See the trend?
Yes
When government funds corporate america, corporate executives and bureaucrats walk away with all the loot.
Money creation is the greatest mechanism of wealth transfer in the history of the world.
In the past few decades, America has created more money (not wealth) than in its entire previous history.
Those who get the new money first benefit the most.
Those who get the new money are always mega-corporations, banks, and bureaucrats.
Some easy to understand videos about financial literacy
Funny Money Cartoon: Building Long-Term Wealth
Funny Moneyman Credit Card Game Show
Track your spending: Track-o-matic
Saving For An Emergency - Funny Money
Financial Leverage: Does Time=Money? (only the first 3 minutes are relevant to this topic)
All corruption and corporatism aside (that's another subject).... This is what the rich understand and apply. That's why their becoming richer and the poor, poorer.
Funny Money Cartoon: Building Long-Term Wealth
Funny Moneyman Credit Card Game Show
Track your spending: Track-o-matic
Saving For An Emergency - Funny Money
Financial Leverage: Does Time=Money? (only the first 3 minutes are relevant to this topic)
All corruption and corporatism aside (that's another subject).... This is what the rich understand and apply. That's why their becoming richer and the poor, poorer.
edit on 10-11-2010 by TheBandit795 because: (no reason
given)
edit on 10-11-2010 by TheBandit795 because: Added the last video
reply to post by TheBandit795
You overlooked the fact it cost more and that means more of the poor's money will be spent just trying to survive with the necessities. No I won't argue with your comment about saving habits with most poor people, you must admit it is harder to save when you have a constant flow of bills to pay. However you must bear in mind the poor is carrying the greatest financial burden in this society. Why? The rich pay less taxes but benefit the most from governmental welfare so they don't have to be savings astute,no they have lobbyists in Washington wetting hands to make sure their wealth is secured through legislating.
You overlooked the fact it cost more and that means more of the poor's money will be spent just trying to survive with the necessities. No I won't argue with your comment about saving habits with most poor people, you must admit it is harder to save when you have a constant flow of bills to pay. However you must bear in mind the poor is carrying the greatest financial burden in this society. Why? The rich pay less taxes but benefit the most from governmental welfare so they don't have to be savings astute,no they have lobbyists in Washington wetting hands to make sure their wealth is secured through legislating.
reply to post by TheBandit795
What you guys consider poor I consider a pretty decent life. I am from a place where even if you are rich the living conditions in general is crap. Americans have TONS of more opportunity than they give themselves credit for. It's how you make use of those opportunities that makes the difference between white trash and rich millionaire. If you think it's a banana republic you're deluded.
What you guys consider poor I consider a pretty decent life. I am from a place where even if you are rich the living conditions in general is crap. Americans have TONS of more opportunity than they give themselves credit for. It's how you make use of those opportunities that makes the difference between white trash and rich millionaire. If you think it's a banana republic you're deluded.
Lol, OP nice stats.
I wonder if the transfer of wealth coincides with the increase of consumer credit debt?
Oh what?
You mean the middle class and poor spent all their money on "luxury item" to emulate the "rich" and now they are broke?
And this is the rich's fault?
If the middle class hadn't been "chasing the Jone's" they wouldn't be in this prediciment in the first place.
I wonder if the transfer of wealth coincides with the increase of consumer credit debt?
Oh what?
You mean the middle class and poor spent all their money on "luxury item" to emulate the "rich" and now they are broke?
And this is the rich's fault?
If the middle class hadn't been "chasing the Jone's" they wouldn't be in this prediciment in the first place.
I work at a place that provides me with great access to the very wealthy, I make a wage that is approximately the average American wage and many of my
friends make up to twice as much as me or as low as half of what I earn.
I get a very wide spectrum of views and see first hand what the social and business dynamics are like across most of the spectrum.
The truth is that the system works almost in reverse of what the pay grades indicate.
The CEO's (and other executive types) that I know are at the golf course, almost every day. They spend hours practicing and playing a round of golf and then sit in the lounge and socialize over a few drinks and maybe a game of dice or the days football game. Day after day. There are some guys that do not have so much extra time on their hands and it is commensurate with their pay, but in reverse. The guys that get the most are needed by the company the least.
Are they doing such a good job that the company runs itself? Do they actually work from 7pm to 5am? Do they have wireless implants that feed them all the financial and other functional data from the company invisibly? Are they calling the shots via text message?
The truth is, the data is gathered and distributed by the lower employees. It is sent UP the chain, along with advice on how to handle situations. The advice comes from the lower employees, because they are actually part of the machine that produces the product or service. They actually experience what the company does first hand and have the knowledge required to make the decisions properly.
The suits at corporation are much like the president of a nation. They are surrounded by people that have increasing less first hand knowledge and those people just receive the data from the next chain down and repeat it like parrots, adding their own spin on it until it finally reaches the top, were a small group of people, almost entirely removed from the day to day reality of the business, look at a few sheets of paper containing the accumulated wisdom of the lower employees and then choose which course to take from the list.
This might be fine if they guys at the top actually took full responsibility for the decisions, but they don't. They rarely get fired and when they do it's with a check so big it could have fed all the children of the company for 10 years. As the saying goes, "The s#!t rolls down hill". They guy below them gets the finger pointed at him and he passes on the blame downward again, until the finally the lower employees are fired, laid off, lose their raises for the year, get their benefits cut, whatever...
The people that are the source of the knowledge AND the labor that produces the produce or service end up getting paid the least AND paying the price for failures.
And they don't even get to play golf all day!
I get a very wide spectrum of views and see first hand what the social and business dynamics are like across most of the spectrum.
The truth is that the system works almost in reverse of what the pay grades indicate.
The CEO's (and other executive types) that I know are at the golf course, almost every day. They spend hours practicing and playing a round of golf and then sit in the lounge and socialize over a few drinks and maybe a game of dice or the days football game. Day after day. There are some guys that do not have so much extra time on their hands and it is commensurate with their pay, but in reverse. The guys that get the most are needed by the company the least.
Are they doing such a good job that the company runs itself? Do they actually work from 7pm to 5am? Do they have wireless implants that feed them all the financial and other functional data from the company invisibly? Are they calling the shots via text message?
The truth is, the data is gathered and distributed by the lower employees. It is sent UP the chain, along with advice on how to handle situations. The advice comes from the lower employees, because they are actually part of the machine that produces the product or service. They actually experience what the company does first hand and have the knowledge required to make the decisions properly.
The suits at corporation are much like the president of a nation. They are surrounded by people that have increasing less first hand knowledge and those people just receive the data from the next chain down and repeat it like parrots, adding their own spin on it until it finally reaches the top, were a small group of people, almost entirely removed from the day to day reality of the business, look at a few sheets of paper containing the accumulated wisdom of the lower employees and then choose which course to take from the list.
This might be fine if they guys at the top actually took full responsibility for the decisions, but they don't. They rarely get fired and when they do it's with a check so big it could have fed all the children of the company for 10 years. As the saying goes, "The s#!t rolls down hill". They guy below them gets the finger pointed at him and he passes on the blame downward again, until the finally the lower employees are fired, laid off, lose their raises for the year, get their benefits cut, whatever...
The people that are the source of the knowledge AND the labor that produces the produce or service end up getting paid the least AND paying the price for failures.
And they don't even get to play golf all day!