Just who and what ARE we?

Originally posted by godddd
Maybe we are just programmed to follow a certain pattern like we have now which is our life in the society with its politics, economics and religions.

No, I really don't think so, no I have to reject that. We're going to create something new and better than that even by an infinite degree.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Yes we will, when we are awakened we will

you are a stationary point at the intersection of two single-dimensional radial pulsations.

because of your un-moving viewpoint, the pulsations can appear to be directional. "up->downward" and "down->upward" (or) "inward" and "outward" might be useful modes of conceptualizing these radiations, but really: they are the sub-strata of 3D space and so cannot be defined in terms of 3D.

the pulses emanate perpendicular to one another and have interaction across a secondary domain. each pulse can carry one of two distinct charges and so the secondary domain can have a total of four possible characteristics: up/up, up/down, down/up, down/down. this characteristic is then passed upward into the next higher dimension and generates our familiar frame of reality.

the current state of our individuated and personalized existence is in the down/up configuration: this defines our orientation toward uncertainty which is thus felt as the directionality of time. this is the self in time (EVE).

however, as you might imagine, the single-dimensional radial pulsations acting across a secondary domain generate an intricate system of interference and thus a localized series of nested strata form. the structure of the strata is largely herarchical and periodic. thus there is a de-personalized state of existence in an opposing up/down configuration which is oriented toward uncertainty in what might be called the anti-self in anti-time (ADAM).

in our current position within this metaphysical stratosphere, humanity (as individuals and collectively) is at a threshold of periodic interference. i could speculate on the effects of this, but it is getting late and you probably stopped reading this post long ago.

as always, this is a work in progress.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/0f085b1ed75aba41.gif[/atsimg]

I would like to hear Terrance McKenna talking about this now, and am therefore posting this video, in two parts, which I haven't even reviewed fully yet, may it be somehow, synchronistic to the discussion at hand..

Terence Mckenna - The Importance of Human Beings (part 1 of 2)


Terence Mckenna - The Importance of Human Beings (part 2 of 2)

reply to post by tgidkp


Assuming your theory is valid, for a moment, and to be honest I haven't reviewed it in great detail, yet, but let's just say by some stroke of luck and genius that indeed you've hit the nail on the head somehow.. after all anything is possible.

Question: How precisely, in your view, and within that framework, can or will the human being move from the 3rd dimension (a pyramid) to a 5th dimension (star tetrahedron), and from an arrow of time, to simultaneous or synchronistic time? What would that transformation look like by your "caculations".. just curious.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


i actually wrote a thread concerning that quite a while ago. i hope it will suffice for now.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


p.s. i fully acknowledge that i am at least half-full of nonsense and making things up as i go along.

reply to post by tgidkp


OMG, so you did! That's funny - ask, and you SHALL recieve eh?

I think you ought to continue this work, by overlaying it onto the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, and Metatron's Cube..?

See if I myself believe that I've discovered a "rational basis for faith" for sharing and "grokking" by others, then why can't your "reality tunnel" not also be a valid frame of reference, don't be so quick to write off your own work as "nonsense" that's absurd. You deserve more praise and understanding than that - and to that end I'll take a good close look at it and see if I can't "grok" it if not "most fully" then at least, to a degree.

What we think, we become.
Buddha

We are whatever/whoever we decide to be. The most important question is are you happy with who you are? why? How can you improve to be happier whether you are happy or not?

What a great thread--thank you NAM!

Conversations like this one is why I joined ATS. No one in my circles comes close to daring into these kinds of discussions.

tgidkp--you said it all in that year ago posting: "...the potential for complexity of conversation is quite high."

(I hope this isn't construed as hijacking the thread, but I think the following might possibly lend something to the discussion, or, maybe just some more food for thought....)

I have an absolute recollection of coming into my own self-awareness--not the baby-step at 6 months or so, like when you notice your hands are really an extenstion of your own body--rather, the awareness of a "spiritual" or soul self. (Would this tie into the beginning of the "age of reason"?) I might have been around five or so. This birth of "the awareness" was most puzzling to me and stayed with me for days with a kind of a wonder. I can vividly remember questioning my mother to insanity with my curious questions about why I was "me".

Dreams I had thereafter were strange. I remember one which happened repetitiously for a period of time--couple years. In it I seemed to slip through dimensions--I was never able to explain it to my mother because there were no words--no reference points. The nearest I could explain was that it was a "feeling". A "feeling" I was on a checkerboard of sorts that seemed endless in all directions, and the feeling of heaviness and something like "backwards nausea".

Fast forward: I was a teen--somewhere around 16 perhaps. Naive, very sheltered, very much a child of nature and poetry...I lived in a beautiful setting and spent many afternoons lying in a meadow near my house. One day I was just sprawled out in the hot sunshine, when (seeming unprompted by anything) I suddenly was no longer "just me". It was as if I had been "swept up"--I was everything! The birdsong, the cricketsong, the blades of grass, the wind, the leaves, the hot sunshine, the sky...even as it was happening I realized I was in another dimension. A parallel one.

It only lasted briefly --just as suddenly as it had happened, so too I "fell" back into myself; a heavier density --my return seemed so dull and dimmed. I cried--sobbed and sobbed and ran to the house of an old friend--my mentor--an artist who lived nearby who was also a Christian Scientist. She made me a cup of tea but had no answers--probably didn't even understand what I was talking about.

For years I tried to find reference to something in literature to relate it to--the closest (but no cigar) I've discovered is in an obscure paragraph in The Wind in the Willows (by Kenneth Graham) where Toad (or somebody) experienced something he called "The Awe".

Maybe this is how the dimension ascends--just suddenly-- as if it is the very dimension around us that shifts.

Anna

reply to post by annabanana


hey anna! welcome to ATS.

i enjoyed reading your post. i had a similar vision when i was younger in which i became another person looking back at myself. until that moment, i had only understood the "we are ONE" ideal as a metaphor. but this vision allowed me to breifly comprehend the reality of our unified existence.

the certainty that i gained in that moment more than a decade ago has faded. but i remember...........

Thanks for the welcome tgidkp! and nice to meet you! I'm glad somebody can relate to the "awe" experience.

I guess, if I take that experience in the context of NAM's initial observations and questions in the thread--I'd add that consciousness may well be key to the shift. (Personally, I believe the shift is already underway.) I never really was unconnected from my body during that experience-- as in seeing myself above it--but rather my consciousness no precluded myself --my same sence of identity encompassed everything. I "was" everything. Weird.

Anna

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Just look at from a more positive angle. How many animals make meaning out of anything. The imagination is beautiful. Each one of us, is the time lived the lessons learned and what ever, the rest is imagination. Look at the turmoil the world is in. People did it. They were guided but it was all them. Its a tribulation. We could just as easily make peace. Also, no other animal has such a distinct relationship with other planets, and the moon. We found time, numbers, and technology.

reply to post by annabanana


I had a similar experience, but my prespective just completely shifted from where it usually was, to being in the back of my head, and everything felt unreal. I think maybe it could corelate with yin yang ideaology, to do with the year i was born. I am sure many people felt this kind of shift at almost the same time, but in different ways.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Absolutly, this recent almost schizophrenic crisis, has left the psyche beaten, and ready and willing to accept progress. No more money or war. Science will no longer be impeded by stupidity. So no more disease killing thousands of people every year. This is a great time to be alive really, this is a time of enlightenment

reply to post by iam666


iam I whole-heartedly agree with you that it is indeed a great time to be alive on this planet! I feel no fear, almost a calm, and a greater sense of excitement. I feel an "energy" or maybe more like an "etheral aura" strengthening. I don't really know what it means. I've stopped trying to understand most of it because I can just puzzle over it all so much...(my "puzzler" gets sore!) I think maybe we need to spend more time just living--I kinda think that's what we're "supposed" to do. Our role in nature has a lot to do with it--but then that's another thread!

Anna

reply to post by annabanana


Thank YOU, what an awesome contribution to this intriguing thread. I occasionally get that "ah ha" moment, even had it a bit re-reading the posts here, yours included.

I believe firmly that we simply MUST undergo "the shift" and experience in the process a re-enchantment of our world and cosmos, because the current worldview and paradigm is killing us, and the reason its killing us, is because we know in our heart of hearts that it's both a type of prison and that it's not the least bit congruent with reality as it really and truly is, according to the way it was created. I've come to think that a big part of the problem, of the incongruity, which is making us suffer dearly is the Newtonian Materialist Monist (matter is primary, and separated) worldview, which was helpful in the sense that it kicked off a scientific revolution, but unhelpful to the degree that we adopted it's fundamental tenets as "self evident" and came to view the world around as as separate from ourselves. Everything became divided, splintered, just things, dead, inanimate, without soul or substance, meaningless, pointless, without purpose.

I've recently finished reading a book called "The Self Aware Universe" by a physicist by the name of Amit Goswami, PhD. In it, he postulated a new way of doing science and of looking at ourselves and the world around us which he calls "Monistic Idealism" whereby consciousness and not matter is primary. It's principal advantage, scientifically, is that it does away with all the quantum paradoxes, but best of all, it presents a viewpoint, a worldview or a paradigm capable of re-linking science to the various religious, mystical traditions in such a way that they share a common ground. As a result it points a sturdy finger towards the possibility of a re-enchantment of the cosmos and our place within it, as a type of co-creative cosmic dance with we ourselves positioned as a rather unique product or culmination of a long (if not eternal) cosmic evolutionary process, such that we are put back into a relationship WITH God and WITH the creation in a very integral way, a way which resonates both with the discoveries of modern science AND which resonates with what we intuit deep down, to be true, that we have a unique and special place as self aware conscious observers and participants enveloped in a wholistic interdependant universal framework. It states that we MATTER by virtue of our stature as created beings, that we are not just THINGS, and that our presence here is unique, special, and INTENDED, where the motive force or the catalyst to creativity, is Love.

It gives new meaning to the statement (and please don't let any religious bias prevent you from "grokking" its significance) "All creation was made by the father for the son" or put another way, "all creation was made by the first/last cause who is a self aware being, for the sake of love, and it pleases God to SHARE his kinddom with all his children (created beings made in the image of God ie: self aware and embued with free will).

I can see some hard assed atheist stepping in here now to throw a cold bucket of water on me, and say that this is just feel good fluff because I am too scared to accept the cold hard facts of an impersonal universe and the degree of my own insignificance, or I'm just trying to make the facts fit my preconcieved religious bias, but to him I would have to say, no, that just doesn't cut it, and then, if I was as smart and knowledgable as Goswami, I could then start putting forth the quantum paradoxes and show how this viewpoint of a Monistic Idealism alone resolves them satisfactorily.

What saddens me, about the atheist arguments, is that they seemingly would rather deny their own existence, than to accept the notion that they are children (byproducts) of a God of love who created them and all creation for the sake of making the experience possible (sharing the kingdom), so that there could be love, and love as we know always takes two to tango, so to speak.

Can we reciprocate love back to something (God) that we cannot understand? Sure we can, with something called gratitude, appreciation and the joy of having been included in the creation, to be here for a reason, while at the same time gifted with absolute freedom. We can do it by LIVING and EXPERIENCING our lives more fully, by getting re-enchanted with the world around us, and especially the other people around us, since mutality is a powerful word when it comes to the matter of love.

It's an extraordinary thing to behold, even the way it's been done, at the classical level (there's another deep quantum one we can't see of course), with the stars, planets, OUR planet, the trees and plants and everything, I mean like if it's some sort of holographic projection of sorts following classical rules, then it's an absolutely incredible work of art!

I think we can bypass "the church" or "Churchianity" and re-capture this newly re-enchanted viewpoint, and oh what it says about ourselves and our true nature..?!

It makes we almost weep, to think that this may be the way it REALLY is, while my room mates sit upstairs glued to the boobtube watching two and a half men, and thinking that the reality we were sold the one we all just you know ASSUME and take for granted, the BS social matrix we've been placed in so as to serve our role as "eaters" and as good consumers is the REAL WORLD. It is NOT the real world, by any stretch of the imagination. And that world, that dead and dying world, is killing us, and taking away our soul. I say just turn it OFF and ignore it altogether and choose reality and choose life.

/rant over.

God Bless.

With Love,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Well done NAM! Nice piece of work. I like how you think and are able to express yourself.
I have been thinking much also, but not until now given the time to sit down and share some well deserved feedback.

I like what you've been reading---it's very deep and obviously takes some effort to ponder through.

So too, I've had this problem with thinking in terms of "we are all one"--as in a collective consciousness. The folks who study the Law of One would probably argue with me. I love the sea therefore have always been drawn to the analogy of us all being like waves in the ocean: Spill forth, and return back to the source. The flaw in this thinking is not in the science of what actually happens, but in the interpertation thereof. We are not all one, we are all the individual. The wave "becomes" out of a vast source--true, but immediately recieves its own identity and course of action. Its arc, its spray, its length, breadth, its force, its color, --all its own, wrapped competely up into being itself. When it crashes out in full crescendo onto the shore line it leaves its own indelible mark in the sands. The wave washes back to the sea but returns again and again to re-experience itself and to mark its time in passage. The sea is helpless without the movement of the synchronized waves.

I'm sure I'm not as succinct as I would wish: Watering it down, (ha-ha! --so to speak!) an army of waves can carve holes in boulders, and even one wave came become tidal. Potential is not in sum of the sea, but in particles of individuality which (I believe) are consciousness; and the usage of these selves as creators. Whereas I believe we are all connected, as in the notion we're all brothers and sister sharing the same human experience, I do feel we come individually to and from the source (the source of all creation). I can hold your hand, but I can't be you. We can never become "salvaged" on a group soul level unless we were to lower our vibrational frequency, thereby supressing our consciousness--as in the rest of nature over which man was gifted dominion.

Back some years, back in some hippiedom den somewhere (yikes!), I had this "vision"...back then I dubbed as so profound. (Now I see similar images all over the place...) It was a "snapshot like" vison: a great throng of people of all kind was all in sync with some sway; reaching out to above with both arms high--and there was a tremendous brightness from a source of light (like the sun) and this whole swaying sea of humanity was connected to it by an imbical cord which came out of the individual bodies. Cooool, man.... I thought to myself for many years thereafter: hey, dude...we are all just one--love and peace --ya'know--after all, the vision said it all.

There is something to be said about aging--it gives you something to look back on. Now, years later, I realized that in the vision no one in that sea of humanity was in any way connected to each other, (touching-- yes--shoulder to shoulder type of thing) but not interlaced or interconnected--only to the source by individual imbicical cords. We come forth as individuals; and even in sync as our union may be as we strive and sway in unison toward the same goals, and share our strengths, etc., we can only ever remain orientated within our own consciousness. I

One more thing then I'll shut up: For a bit of clarification, in that "becoming one with everything" long-ago experience I had in the meadow--when I "became" everything it wasn't that I had turned my perspective into that of, say, the blade of grass, it was that my perspective was the blade of grass. It was my consciousness --the "I am me"--part. The trees were me, the bird's song was me, the colors were me...I wasn't so much "outside of myself" --it was as if I was the all.

Thanks for the great conversation!
Anna'anana

The human race is nothing more than a intergalactic experiment, probably a failed one at that. We came to be due to coincidence. Life is a once in a billion oppertunity, and for just you to have your life is too much of a priveledge to dwell upon the meaning as to why you are here. Hike to the highest peak and you will see why you live. Your cat will probably feel the same way snuggled up on your lap, thinking this is the greatest moment of my life, it is surely why I came to be.

I am a thinking, breathing, living creature. What is beyond? I don't know. It is too vast, and endless it is painfull to even start thinking of how small we really are. Why not just enjoy our little planet earth while we still have it, and think that the only purpose we really have, is to be there for our given and chosen family?

reply to post by annabanana


Nice. Interesting, about the ocean waves.

DIfferentiation and individuality is good I think also. I call it the "relativity of human being".

Example: When we get out of our way and set aside for a time, the incessant ego-driven ramblings of our selfish, self-centered mind, and our classical mind (recording machine), which is nothing but a bunch of meaning filters and past, learned behaviors, ideas and conceptions ie: stop listening to the other ONLY in terms of what WE want to add, change, edit, modify of that other person's perspective and trying to push our way into their reality (like everyone I'm guilty of this too, perhaps even one of the worst offenders) - when we lose that AGENDA, for the sake of a real and authentic mutuality, and become PRESENT, and really really LISTEN to the other person, by in effect disappearing to ourselves and leaving self behind, why then something extraordinary takes place, and we ourselves both disintegrate and expand both at the same time, while UPLIFTING that other person, perhaps in a way and a manner they've never experienced before, or only very rarely.

It's hard to describe, but there's something very mysterious about our shared ground of being when it can be experieced in deep mutuality, not unlike our strong urge for sexual union. We are incomplete without each other, and perhaps the whole of creation is incomplete absent our inclusion as individuated separate beings and separate selves.

I don't mean to go off on a "religious" tangent here, but I find it noteworthy, the interaction involved that generated the parable of the Good Sameritan, where the lawyer and scholars and pharisees came to JC wanting to grill him, and so this balsy lawyer steps up, in part wishing to gain favour with the others gathered around and he poses the question "Teacher, Rabbi, what, is the highest commandment?" to which Jesus then put the question back to him, asking him "You've read the scriptures, and the law, what do you find there?" (this is paraphrased of course, as I'm by no means a literalist) to which the lawyer replied "Love God above all, and, neighbor as self.". "You answered well and rightly" replied Jesus, turning to leave (they were not being entirely sincere in their inquiry of course), and then the lawyer, further attempting to justify himself before his elders, piped up and asked another question "Who then, is my neighbor?" to which Jesus replied with the telling of the parable of the good Sameritan, who would have been someone considered a "low life" by these people, so he really made use of their folly as a foil against which to illuminate the higher truth.
And there was another instance, where Jesus corrrected someone who was claiming that the "love God above all" was the apex of the "law and the prophets", by making sure that they understood very clearly, that to "love neighbor as self" was no less important, and was in fact the flip side to the very same coin..!

I recognize and intuit very deeply that there's a universal framework here involving the creator, the human being, and in particular, the "relativity of human being", such that love of neighbor as ANY OTHER is just as important as being greateful to and loving God (although we cannot fully understand God) for our inclusion in creation, and since we cannot understand God, but CAN have an deeply felt experience of understanding our neighbor, then it may be even MORE important ie: for a "Christian" say, to leave their proseletizing behind to be present and listen to the POV of an atheist for example, without ah condemning them or any such thing, which in JC's framework and POV would represent an epic FAIL in the matter of love and mutuality.

And from this Oneness, and almost Buddhist perspective, since we all share the same ground of being, what we measure out is what will be measured back to us, and worst of all (for many of us), if we cannot find it in our heart of hearts to forgive our neighbor their transgressions or sins against us, then we ourselves cannot be forgiven (presumably for sins against the holiness and perfection of the Absolute).

It's a full circle thing WITH individuality and freedom of expression, but what an OPPORTUNITY!!!

If only we can find that POINT where the rubber REALLY hits the road and goes somewhere far and wide for the human being (as a collective) through our individual human interactions..! My oh my, what a wonderful world we could create with just the slightest TWIST on a very old idea..

This is my best "grokking" (to borrow a favorite term from Heinlein's "A Stranger in a Strange Land")

in reponse to the question "What's Your Reality?"

I feel that it derves to be added here to this thread, for whatever it's worth.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I try not to have one of my own, and keep an open mind freely from any presumptuous bias or apriori conclusion. At the same time, however, I am hopelessly compelled to try to keep describing it in one form or another! (as you would be able to tell from the link to my re-interpretation of "Alchemy" in my sig) in the endless pursuit of a newfound, mutually shared, "enlightenment", to do whatever I can to help usher us all into the future, which by its very nature, is an unknown unknown and therefore impossible to access (as the realm of all knowledge, all truth, all everything, from what is to what is becoming).

I have been forced conclude however, by reason and evidence, that the reality of reality itself, by virtue of it's very ah "reality", precludes the idea that it's an absurd meaninglessness..

What it means precisely, is ultimately up to each of us to freely evaluate and choose for ourselves.

That said however, I still think that the creation of the world represents a victory of persuasion over force.

So while there's plenty of evidence that we all share the same reality, and that there IS one, and, that it is meaningful - precisely what is means and signifies I cannot say, thank God.

But at times, and, as a result of a seminar I attended one time called "The Landmark Forum" (some of you may have heard of it), I've become present to the presence, of nothing ie: a meaningless absurdity of absolute uncertainty, and there, I concluded, or intuited-apprehended/grokked, the idea, and the deeply held conviction, that in the space of nothing, where there is nothing in particular that we MUST DO (by preordination), or an "unconditioned" ground of being..

that in the end my love of people, is the ONLY thing left, or the compelling desire to love and to be loved, which, if the only possible real "meaning" that can be enjoyed, for the sake of love and what is simply FUN, including all manner of co-creative or collaborative creativity (also in the space of nothing), envelopes us, and therefore, in the context of a non-localized, holographic universe (my understanding of modern science) IS who and what we REALLY are; once were; and are to be again - because it's the only thing which makes any sense to me, when there is nothing left, at all, and no time or memory, no habituated personal ongoing drama, no real separate >self< even; nothing the real nothing which is the actual FUTURE. It's what I call the holy of holies, this sphere or realm or domain of infinite possibiliy, to which we stand even now, relative, both to everything, to one another and to ourselves, although in my conception of it, there needn't be a "tow rope from behind" any more (they used to do that to the high priests in case they DIED when entering, so as to prevent a cataclysm of dying guys, each more corrupted than the last, to retrieve the dead body!!!)

and so the good news then, imho, is that we ARE in fact, still alive! We're in nothing at the end of time, and yet we did not die!

Therefore, I am forced to say, in conclusion..

LET's PARTY!

P.S. As an aisde, I've also concluded, that it the modern science is to be accepted and integrated, that we must also accept the idea that our true self, the choosing self, the free self, does not in fact reside in time and space or in 3 dimensional reality, but is distributed non-locally and holographically, and so, provided we don't waiver in indeterminacy (say "maybe" instead of a clear yes, or no) and are prepared to choose, and excercise our freedom, and do so in a non-judgemental way, without assigning strong VALUES to people, places and things, then we are set free to freely fly as spiritual beings in the spacious firmament of increasing spheres of love and freedom. We are released from the bondage of a dying materialist monism, and then there it is imo - the re-enchantment of the cosmos, the "revelation of the sons of God" which all creation has been groaning in travail to birth or give rise to. A new age of reason, AND, of spirit, of mystical traditions, and modern science, of something both old and new.

"The kingdom of heaven is like a storekeeper, who brings forth from his storehouse (treasurehouse) both things old and new."

edit on 11-11-2010 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)