Shocking! chemtrail & anomaly pics captured in so calif. High desert 10-28-10 @ 7:45 am pst

reply to post by epicvision


Well....the logic, in order to apply to the "chemtrail" side, would have to be founded on more than just supposition, based on the "patents". (Which, as previously and often mentioned, mean jack squat. Patents do NOT always imply that an actual invention has been built, or is being used, or is even viable!! Google keywords like "crazy patents", for examples).

What's more, using logic (and maybe Occam's Razor too, as a side component) it is far more reasonable to observe, and then presume (based on past history, and knowledge base) that the observations perfectly match, year over year, decade over decade. It is only the "hint" of these "chemtrails" that has caused all the hysteria...driven by the very presence, and simultaneously the GROWTH, of the Internet.

THAT is your "conspiracy", right there.

Because, in reality....the types of suggested materials that MIGHT (if ever agreed upon, by consensus) be used to distribute at upper altitudes would likely have NO resemblance to the white, cirrus-type clouds that we are familiar with. Likely, they will not be visible at all, to the naked eye...except, perhaps, during sunrise/sunset. Very much as Volcanic ash, when spewed from eruptions, and once it spreads out (away from the very obvious initial plumes) is invisible, until the Sun illuminates it at a very oblique angle.

BTW...volcanic ash is extremely hazardous to airplanes, and especially the turbine engines. (You can Google that, for specifics). SO would ANY type of the so-called "chemtrail" materials that are being fearmongered about, on the various websites that spout off about them. OTHER airplanes flying through a discharge, if one were to occur, would be adversely affected. YET, none of this is happening.

Wonder why?

reply to post by weedwhacker

OK, this is my last post on the subject. Since you say the weather, temperature and effects are not homogeneous and can differ within a few hundred feet. Why is the effect of Chem-trails throughout the whole sky and as far as the eye can see. There is not a cloud in the sky today in all directions. As you know there is alot of air traffic where I live. Yesterday there were some Chem-trails. The weather is the same. Look it up. Since the high altitude temperatures are always below freezing it would follow that there should be some chem-trails today. In order for your theory to hold up it needs to be true all the time. If you say a certain condition will cause certain effects then it should cause them all the time.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


First of all, when you stand on the ground, and look up at the sky, do you REALLY know how FAR you can actually see? In miles?? I'll let you look it up, online. WIll do you good.

Why is the effect of Chem-trails [correcting your word, here....contrails]throughout the whole sky and as far as the eye can see.

There is not a cloud in the sky today in all directions. As you know there is alot of air traffic where I live.

Ditto in the area here. Ditto on the air traffic. SO????

The weather is the same. Look it up.

SIGH....the "weather is the same" on the ground??? Oh....kay......
WHat does that have to do withthe upper atmosphere? (Hint...nothing)

Since the high altitude temperatures are always below freezing....

Yes...he's getting it....

....it would follow that there should be some chem-trails today.

Oops, no he lost it...didn't get it. DIdn't read the part about RELATIVE HUMIDITY...not the RH at the local weather station on the ground!

In order for your theory to hold up it needs to be true all the time.

"MY" theory?? It isn't mine, it's based on science, and observation over decades. You really didn't read the links, from the last few days and posts?

Did you see the Appleman Chart? asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...

Appleman showed that when the air outside of the airplane is cold enough and moist enough, the mixture of the jet exhaust and the air would form a cloud.

Note the bottom of the chart, is at 500 mb. That equates to about 18,000 feet. Contrails are very rare, that low, in our latitudes, because of temperature and RH factors. This may be different higher latitudes, closer to the poles.

reply to post by weedwhacker


In life there are two sides to everything and some people see things in their logic one way and others in the opposite. We are products of our environments. How we were raised, what happened to us in school, how our parents, brothers and sisters treated us. I think that a person can stand back and appreciate the logic on both sides, to a point... At some point everyone should concede that there are possibilities...

The big question is What does a government gain by spraying chemicals? If we could answer that we might be getting somewhere...

If we can't than weedwacker has good points. I am learning quite a bit I have to say based on everyones comments! More than I had ever hoped for. Thanks for the education on all sides!

reply to post by YAHUWAH SAVES


Well, I agree that is the million dollar question....but at last it seems it most certainly my be related to this:











PDF for presentation

Daniel Miller BIO



If you truly connect the dots, I don't believe it's too hard to find the connection here. In fact it really all makes sense.

reply to post by YAHUWAH SAVES

Have you seen the video, "What in the world are they spraying?"



In the video, you will hear from numerous professionals in various fields of science. These are not anonymous posters, they are real people that are genuinely concerned and doing something about it.
The stakes are huge...human health vs. huge profits.
In the quest for knowledge on chemtrails, you will encounter "familiar" roadblocks that seek only to derail the thread and (try to) make you feel like an idiot for asking questions.

reply to post by YAHUWAH SAVES


Well, more than two sides, really....

The big question is What does a government gain by spraying chemicals?

At 30,000 to 39,000 feet? Nothing, I can assure you. SO can any weatherperson (meteorologist). Any other experienced aviation professional. You can reason it out, for yourself, when you start to calculate the areas, in square miles (or sq. km, for our European, and other, friends).

In the California high desert, where you likely are (Kern?). How about all three that are abutting each other?

Kern, Ventura and Los Angeles counties. I find their areas, respectively: 8,141, 1,845 and 4,061 square miles, for total coverage of 14,047 sq. mi.

Try to envision the amounts of any material that would be necessary to effectively blanket that much area, to achieve any result in a substantial enough concentration. Don't forget, three dimensions too. In other words, say you "spray" it out at 35,000 feet. Even if it could fall straight down to the surface (though it won't), that's roughly seven more miles of volume. this means we now have to consider 98,329 cubic miles, give or take. (Slightly less, of course, for terrain elevation differences).

The variables of wind speed, and the potential for dilution, in that much area, and volume of space (air) boggles the mind when trying to accept that there is anything viable, in the least, to these concepts.

reply to post by Stewie


no but I am going to! Thank you!

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weedwacker, your ill logic is so full of holes and presumptions it's incredible you can continue to spout out these mounds of hypocrisy with an honest face and continue to get these stars.

Just keep on thinking what you do. I've given up on trying to educate people on this site. It's so very sad that some people mistake intuition which fills in their gaps in available logic for some sort of "faith". This is freaking incredibly simple here, and yet you ... yeah you just don't get it.

At the very least, geo-engineering is going on, and has been for sometime. I see no reason to think that a little population control isn't being tinkered with at the same time. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE, but yeah... you're obviously missing a few screws in that pea-sized mind of yours.

So say what you will, and let's see just how many stars you get in spouting out 3rd grade logic in rebuttal, but at least I don't look like an idiot to people who actually have a high degree of intuition and common sense.

reply to post by unityemissions

Weedwacker, your ill logic is so full of holes and presumption...

Where? Specifics?

You will find that rational people find the "holes and presumptions" come from the "chemtrailer" nonsense, I'm afraid.

Do you deny that the misidentification of normal large airliner jets making normal contrails is happening?? That those normal contrails are being mistaken for so-called "chemtrails"? Because, that is exactly what's happening.

There are no large-scale geo-engineering projects underway. BTW, the "chemtrail crowd" keep changing their tunes.....first, it was "Morgollon's Disease". They said it was that, or "depopulation". It has now been altered to "climate control". Another really oddball "idea" is the "Project BlueBeam" nonsense, and those folks try to add HAARP into the whole "theory" too. It is paranoia run rampant.

Chicken Little Syndrome, for the Internet Age.

As I keep pointing out, any actual projects involving actual, intentional spraying would result in material that first, wouldn't be visible to the naked eye anyway, and second, would need to be sprayed much, much lower than 30,000 to 35,000 feet overhead!

I mean, IF this "horrible, evil government plan" was so devious and secret and covert, then WHY is it than any toothless jackhole with a pickup truck and an empty Mason Jar in his backyard in Arkansas can "figure it out"?? And, WHY so visible?

THAT defies "logic"........

This comes from a person who knows, very well, what he sees when it's aviation-related. Comes from decades of experience. IF what I saw looked "suspicious", then I, and a whole bunch of others, colleagues etc, would notice.

Originally posted by unityemissions

At the very least, geo-engineering is going on, and has been for sometime.

Aye, thousands of years. Mostly through land-use change (and in the case of parts of N Africa, etc, over-grazing) - and more recent things like sulphate and carbon emissions.

However, just because some have proposed plans whereby we could build cities on the Moon does not mean that there are cities on the Moon

Though I suppose (assuming by geo-engineering in a chemtrail thread you mean the spraying of sulphates or other particles at high altitude to combat global warming) then were it possible to buid the planes and chemical production plants and airfieds in total secret, it's possible such things are going on. We certainy woudn't be aware of them from the ground. Although I do think atmospheric scientists might have noticed a change in the composition of the atmosphere by now? Unless of course they're all in on the multi-trillion dollar global multi-decadal conspiracy too?

That's interesting.

If it's not a lens flare then who knows. Pretty cool though.




LOL Whacker.... Chemtrails really help you rub that intellectual boner you have goin' eh? Maybe with over 14,000!!!!! posts you should try getting outside and actually watching the sky instead of preaching
Keep up the good work man, especially the name calling... That's reeeeeally constructive

PS. Never trust a Klingon

Weedwacker, your ill logic is so full of holes and presumptions it's incredible you can continue to spout out these mounds of hypocrisy with an honest face and continue to get these stars.

So your baseless assumptions on chemtrails must be correct?

Prove it is chemicals being sprayed. Show us so facts that will stand up in court. Cell phone pics of the sky are not proof.

That was a highly interesting and informative link you posted to "What in the world are they spraying" on YT, thank you. I always leaned towards these "chem-trails" as being nothing more than aircraft contrails as I see them everyday as I live close to main airway vectors, thus, I never really researched the phenomenon. What got my attention are the SOIL SAMPLES and the levels of aluminum, barium and strontium that are being found. I'm only on the second video of the movie and it's already altered my opinion on the subject.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


Ahem. A little side research might come in handy:

What got my attention are the SOIL SAMPLES and the levels of aluminum, barium and strontium that are being found.

So far, just looking up "barium" online, found this:

Barium in the environment

Barium is surprisingly abundant in the Earth's crust, being the 14th most abundant element. High amounts of barium may only be found in soils and in food, such as nuts, seaweed, fish and certain plants.
Because of the extensive use of barium in the industries human activities add greatly to the release of barium in the environment. As a result barium concentrations in air, water and soil may be higher than naturally occurring concentrations on many locations.

Barium enters the air during mining processes, refining processes, and during the production of barium compounds. It can also enter the air during coal and oil combustion.

www.lenntech.com...

"Chemtrailers" are leaping to conclusions, as seen in that "documentary". I will get deeper into that film, when time permits, to dispel its many false claims.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Same source, talking about strontium.

And, yet another.

This one suggests a combination of sources, INCLUDING aerial spraying of Ba for radar/communication enhancements. (And, cloud seeding activities). No one denies that there are some instances of this, but it is certainly NOT as widespread as suggest by the "chemtrail" alarmist websites, nor in the amounts they claim. The so-called "chemtrails" that alram people unnecessarily are CONtrails, folks!

....stemming from the common practise of aerial spraying with 'cloud seeding' Ag or Ba crystal nuclei for rain making in these drought prone areas of North America, the atmospheric spraying with Ba based aerosols for enhancing/refracting radar and radio signal communications as well as the spreading of waste Ba drilling mud from the local oil/gas well industry across pastureland.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

So, really....any "spraying" that does occur? Minimal, compared to the exaggerated claims of "chemtrails".

More I read on it (from reputable sources) more it's shown that "spray" activities are limited....there is still a heck of a lot more pollution of these contaminants coming from ground-based sources.

Time to cease all human industrial activity on the planet?

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


That mockumentary really needs to be looked at critically. They start at the 1:00 mark with a story that has been thoroughly debunked. Even the reporter knows it is wrong. I know this because I asked him. This news story seems to be the main claim to "chemtrails" actually being anything "chem-". Which means much of the entire theory is based on bad science and bad results. The rest of the documentary is about as bad.
One thing that seems to be a common thread among "chemtrail" theorists is the consensus that anything being studied or discussed means that it is actually happening. That is wrong. The entire geoengineering segment deals with scientists talking about the studies being done and why study is important. They don't reach any conclusions, they are studying each part thoroughly. The hosts take that as an admission that it is being done. It's not, it's being studied, so they know what would or could happen.
And then a host says that massive amounts of aluminum are being found all over the world? What is he basing that information nugget on? Where is the testing procedure? How was the sample collected? What test was done? Did they exclude all other possible sources? Have the results been peer-reviewed and published? There are 90+ years of scholarly contrail studies available on the web. All will include these important points. And all have come to the same conclusion.....there are nothing like a "chemtrail", there are lots of contrails, and all their aspects have been, are now, and will be in studied in the future as our knowledge increases and new technologies become available.
And that is just the first 15 minutes. I'm wondering if they get one of their celebrity's name right. They had it wrong, both given and surname, on the trailer. If you can't even spell someone's name right, how can they be trusted with science?

reply to post by stars15k

Pretty impressive group that took part in this documentary, huh Stars?

No avatars or anonymous sources.

But maybe you have a group of your own in your hip pocket that will sign their name on the line that says they are all clueless or liars.

Do you?

We ALL have opinions Stars, for what they are worth.

reply to post by Stewie


"anonymous sources"???

The links given to show that "chemtrails" are a hoax, are bogus, are invented by the feverish imaginations of many people are not "anonymous". Try to hand-wave again, unless your wrist is getting too tired.

Now, since you seem to have hitched your "wagon of credibility" to the individuals featured in the "mock"umentary, why not be a pal and proudly post all of their names, and their CV --- Curriculum Vitae (or links to them). Since they are "experts", and all. Let's examine their real credentials, yes?

reply to post by weedwhacker

Weedwacker it doesn't matter what evidence is brought to you because you will always deny it. You are a professional skeptic. I don't know if anyone pays you for it but it is obvious to me. That is why you feel the need to answer every post. Today in LA County the weather is the same HIGH and low. It has been for 4 days. There has not been any Chem-trails or contrails for 3 days until today. The humidity has been the same. Look it up for all elevations. Before today there has not even been a partial contrail or Chem-trail as far as the eye could see in all directions from morning till evening. None all day. Today the weather is hot and dry ( 90's) with checkerboard Chem-trail sky. I am willing to have an open mind and listen to what you say but you are not to the other side. Yes, I agree that contrails do exist but what I am looking at today are Chem-trails. The weather we are experiencing is not conducive to contrails. You do not have to reply and try to teach me how contrails are formed.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


Today I was looking up at the sky with a friend and we noticed two 747 planes that appeared to be the same size and so also appeared to be at the same altitude or pretty close. One had a chemtrail that was across the entire sky, the other had a vapor trail that dissipated at about an inch from it's tail. Yeah I know that some will say that the difference in just a few feet of elevation makes all the difference... Well it is interesting that the planes that had long trails all followed a back and forth patter in both directions, would not that airspace be for planes going mainly in one direction, not back and forth? your thoughts on this please?