So the U.S. is an imperialistic occupier huh?

Uhhh koka what happened in the last election was a LOT more complicated thn you made it out to be, and no we were not cheated, in fact Bush did win the electoral college. While gore won the popular vote getting elected isnt about winning the popular vote its about winning the states electoral votes, which bush did.

I believe you when you say it was a lot more complicated, but I'm not gonna go into great detail when the resultant statement is still the same, you were conned.

Why bother voting?

Maybe the person with the most connections should always get in.

[edit on 28-6-2004 by Koka]

Koka I'm not trying to insult you but the fact is most mericans dont understant the electoral college so I dont expect you to. But the fact is bush won the election. The only thing the court did was decide in favor of gore for a limited recount. No not all votes got counted because not all voters were smart or aware enough to vote properly. But yeah Bush won. Fair and square.

Not offended, too stupid to notice.

I am both academically and intellectually challenged, but have phenomenal intuition and common sense.

What happened to one vote one person?

Why do we have to make things so complex, they are beyond comprehension for your average Joe Blow?

I'm afraid my opinion will not change on this matter. The present administration sarted out as they mean't to go on, and they care little about the electorate.

I have to admit, I have done plenty of Bush bashing in my time and hope for the sake of America and Humankind, the US people see sense this coming election.

The electoral college, much like the two houses of the senate was a way to keep the more populated states from exercising undue influence on national policy. Under the one man one vote system the peoples of the south western states as well as the midwest due to its sparse population would have less influence on the population than the eastern seabord states. By virtue of the electoral college that effect is mitigated somewhat.

Originally posted by mwm1331
The U.S is in iraq to take it over, to steal oil and to torture iraquis huh?

Then explain this.
www.cnn.com...

2 days early!

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

So what, we arent leaving. We are staying for sometime. It does look good to hand it over early.

Like I said before we have kept our word so far.

You know full well that until the Iraqi government is given full power, the hand over is of little consequence. And lets not pretend that Oil has little to play in this and that America are doing this for the good of the Iraqi people.

The US does little in the way of charity on a global scale unless they are getting something in return, which hardly makes it charity.

If it were atrocities that the US was trying to avert, they would have stopped Israel instead of backing them, if it wasn't for the US backing them, Israel would have been forced to share the land by now, and we wouldn't be seeing the global conflict affecting so many now.

[edit on 28-6-2004 by Koka]

Its not over yet, do you think the Insugents are going to just say, we lose ok. we will stop. Ya, ok.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Like I said before we have kept our word so far.

Go read the fine print. They're in charge in name only. But it sho does look good to the unwashed masses.

Let's see if the Iraqis swallow it, tho. That's the real test.

That was then and this is now!

Since the usual list of suspects will blame America for any and everything, shall we look at then and now.

THEN! Our CIA, probably illegally put Saddam in office and for that matter probably helped him with WMD. Since then Saddam has managed to murder approximately one million people either in his own country or Iran. Of course Saddam's torture of dropping people slowly into shredders, butchering them alive with electric knives, dropping acid on them, raping wives and children in front of the entire family pales in comparison to the evil deed our military did by making POW's pose �nakey� for the world to see as far as liberal socialist are concerned.

Americans are just mean, nasty, ugly people who kill, maim, and torture and can�t even get that right. Our list of victims run only in the hundreds while most others in this business can torture and kill millions. Maybe we should just try harder!

NOW! Just to name a few things we have done for the Iraqi's, we have built/rebuilt over 1,400 hospitals and clinics, repaired water plants, vaccinated eight million kids and 700,000 pregnant women. We in the process of sending millions and millions of aid and textbooks to the universities and various materials school kids need in schools from shoulder bags to calculators. This is just a small list of what we have done to improve life for the Iraqi people. There is much more if you care to open your eyes!

Collateral damage is a sad part of war and sad to say, we have killed many innocents. That being said, the terrorist have used these civilians as shields and bear a great responsibility for the death toll as well as the civilians for putting up with and sheltering the terrorist in their homes and neighborhoods. War sucks, deal with it!

To all of you America bashers whether home or abroad, just what have you ever done for your own country, much less the world to even compare with the humanitarian efforts Americans have bestowed upon the world to help with national disasters, hunger, and disease?

Ghostwolfemoon

You ripped up the Kyoto agreement and yet you produce 25% of worlds pollution, not bad for 5% of the worlds population.

You ignore UN resolutions and the Geneva convention.

You believe "Americans are Gods chosen people", and act that way.

mwm1331 seems to need some help.

Puppet Goverment? Allawi is only going to be in charge till the Jan '05 elections. If we set him up as a puppet, you'd think we'd want to control them for longer than 6 months.

Oil? Sheesh, you might not have seen this but they took control of their own oil on June 9th. Link

2000 Election? Perhaps people outside the US might not realize this, but the popular vote doesn't decide the election. The Electoral college does. This let's everyone have a say, and forces candidates to campaign all over, rather than just staying in the most populated cities/states... I'm sure there are plenty of sites on the net that would explain this in further details. (just as a sidenote, if you really think that Bush 'stole' the election then this is the site for you...)

Thanks Nashman. I feel like I'm talkng to the deaf here sometimes.

Originally posted by Ghostwolfemoon

To all of you America bashers whether home or abroad, just what have you ever done for your own country, much less the world to even compare with the humanitarian efforts Americans have bestowed upon the world to help with national disasters, hunger, and disease?

Ghostwolfemoon

First of all, I am not a USA basher. I tell it like it is. If it hurts, too bad. We're not innocent here and we're paying a heavy price for this idiocy. Pipe dreams. That's all this misadventure is.

Only the blinde, deaf and dumb could support the Bush administration at this point.

To answer your question. I volunteered to serve with the US Army and I fought with the 101st Airborne Division through the Persian Gulf War. What have you done?

Collateral damage is a sad part of war and sad to say, we have killed many innocents. That being said, the terrorist have used these civilians as shields and bear a great responsibility for the death toll as well as the civilians for putting up with and sheltering the terrorist in their homes and neighborhoods. War sucks, deal with it!

That is just such a ridiculous statement I can't let it pass Wolfboy.
1. This is a war that should not have happened.
2. The terrorists ARE the civilians, they ARE the families, and yes the children, trying desperately to deal with an overwhelming aggressor on THEIR soil.

'

Originally posted by mwm1331
The electoral college, much like the two houses of the senate was a way to keep the more populated states from exercising undue influence on national policy. Under the one man one vote system the peoples of the south western states as well as the midwest due to its sparse population would have less influence on the population than the eastern seabord states. By virtue of the electoral college that effect is mitigated somewhat.

One interpretation of it. Was another reason not to empower the slave owning states by giving them an increased share of electoral college votes measured by the amount of slaves they owned, with three slaves being equal to one free man. And am I not correct to say that the prison population is used in a similar way currently.
Also, a partial recount?! Here's the way democracy works. If you dont get a clear cut result you have a recount. Not a partial recount, but a full recount. Otherwise you don't get any sense of how all the people in the whole area voted. A partial recount can only give you a partial result. You shouldn't need a court to tell you that, it should go without saying. In order to find out how people vote, you count their votes. It might take time, it might be awkward, and a bind, but you do it, cause it is how the electoral process is validated.
And no Ghostwolfemoon, I do not believe that Americans are nasty brutal people who torture and violate folk. But I do believe that the American government is a nasty brutish institution which routinely violates individuals rights, and individual bodies. One of the governors of Abu Ghraib under the US was fired from his position after an inmate at the prison he ran died while tied to a chair. Prisoners in southern prisons have had dogs set on them. The US government is quite happy to violate its own citizens once they have abdicated their right to vote, why should it then have any compunctions about violating the rights of foreigners. And if the US was so concerned about Saddam, why did it help to put down the independent democratic revolt which occured after the first Gulf War.
If despots are worth doing away with, then why are we working with Uzbekistan, which is run by a brutal gangster who bought up the country after the USSR collapsed, and routinely tortures dissidents to death.
I am glad that Saddam has gone, but I have no faith in the US. They are entirely unwilling to acknowledge the results of elections they do not support. When Chavez was elected, they supported a coup against him, until it was put down by massive popular unrest, at which point Bush had to back down. The Iran-Contra affair was about using money from arms deals to fund a right wing paramilitary (read terrorist) group which wished to bring down the elected goverment.
And I would prefer a truly independent group such as Amnesty to verify the election, as the UN was willing to give the all clear to elections in East Timor in which the Indonesian military routinely brutalised the local population, and which was grotesquely flawed according to every independent assessment. The UN has belatedly acknowledged that these elections were flawed, but it is a sad indictment of their abilities to do their job. As such, I would like other external auditors to assess the security of the electoral process in Iraq.

Now something that would be really fun.
What if aliens invaded USA to replace its regime and give americans back their freedom...

So the U.S. is an imperialistic occupier huh?

we won. Bush backed down, hes now doing the opposite of everything he so strongly believed in not to long ago. Perfect timing hey. Be sure to give him your sympathy vote this comming election


[edit on 28-6-2004 by electric squid carpet]

Maybe if the American coalition where to walk out of there bunkers with picks, shoves and medical supplies, and chuck there rap around sun glasses and starts to build or rebuild a hospital or the water supply or the hydro plants, and I don�t mean a dick Cheney company
But the troupes them selves the Iraqis might think differently
Just a thought