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So the U.S. is an imperialistic occupier huh?

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posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 07:02 PM
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dead straight. The initial reaction by many Iraqi citizens after the first few days of being free of Saddam's regime may well have been one of rejoice. But when they realised no plan to restore their destroyed infrastructure was in place, when they realised they would be without power, without medical care, without food, transport, housing...how could they NOT turn on the alien occupiers. The whole thing is just obscene and did not need to happen.




posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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Romeo, in case you haven't been clued in, the Iraqis are producing more power than during Saddam's regime, purifying more water and have more access to health care. For future reference, don't blab your big mouth without blabbing some statistics. I don't have to because once you look them up you'll realize I'm correct. *I love my logic* hahah



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 07:13 PM
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Oh what the hell, I don't think someone so out-of-it is really capable of research, luckily someone else posted a thread devoted to the "successes" of the Coalition in Iraq.

Iraq has superceeded all pre-war levels of energy, food, health care, water and so on.

ap.tbo.com...



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
Romeo, in case you haven't been clued in, the Iraqis are producing more power than during Saddam's regime, purifying more water and have more access to health care. For future reference, don't blab your big mouth without blabbing some statistics. I don't have to because once you look them up you'll realize I'm correct. *I love my logic* hahah


wheres your proof wheres your facts? you say someone else posted it please give me (us) a break you call a AP story proof suplied by the Departmen of National Defence proof!
I call it propaganda. you show the proof this time or are just going to run away again and start another thread,

And where do you get the right to say someone has a big blabbing mouth,
FreeMason I used to enjoy your post, you even have some interesrting info
but you have a habit for being rude to the posters, and theres no need for that kind of behavior it takes away from your posts, I can see why you where Banned once already. it's one thing to post info, and fact that goes against the grain, that's why we are all here.
But to verbally abuse people only turns them away afraid to ask questions and make comments.
You seem like an intelligent person?, are not denying people the right to express them self.
In fear of bring criticized in a derogatory fashion for witch there is no need
this is the last time I will mention this and it will be the last time I post in any forum that you are involed in.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sauron
wheres your proof wheres your facts? you say someone else posted it please give me (us) a break you call a AP story proof suplied by the Departmen of National Defence proof!
I call it propaganda. you show the proof this time or are just going to run away again and start another thread,


So if info provided to the AP by the Department of Defense is not adequate proof, then who the hell is? You asked him to provide proof, then he does, then you proceed to say it is propaganda. Could you please give us a list of credible sources that you will accept as viable proof? Sheesh.

Edit: Added AP to first sentence.

[edit on 6-28-2004 by nyarlathotep]



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
Romeo, in case you haven't been clued in, the Iraqis are producing more power than during Saddam's regime,


According to the the minister of electricity, Aihman al-Sammar, electricity before the war was 4,500 megawatts link. It's now at 4,100 megawatts.

It's gone down, not up.
If you read the reports on the CPA website, you can see the number of hours of electricity per day has gone down over the last several months.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
According to the the minister of electricity, Aihman al-Sammar, electricity before the war was 4,500 megawatts link. It's now at 4,100 megawatts.

It's gone down, not up.
If you read the reports on the CPA website, you can see the number of hours of electricity per day has gone down over the last several months.


Dude, your story is almost 4 months old. How about something more recent?



[edit on 6-28-2004 by nyarlathotep]



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:40 PM
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Sauron I posted my facts actually.

And Ace, according to the UN which is far more accurate to be honest, the energy production was anywhere from 400 MW to 4,500 MW. I doubt they were at the peak of their estimate. So 4,100 MW is very good.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:42 PM
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Nyalar, it doesn't matter how old it was, it shows how comitted we were to making Iraq BETTER than it was.

If it has gone down now it is not due to American neglect but due to terrorist attacks. Got it?



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:44 PM
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Typical nitpicking by the Bush-bashers. They choose to pick on the electricity point, but how about all of this:

- The overall number of telephones in Iraq, including cell phones, is up nearly 46 percent since before the war. Cellular phone usage has soared with more than 429,300 subscribers nationwide. More than 201,000 subscribers have had their land telephone lines reinstated, but there are still only 784,200 land lines, compared to 833,000 before the war.

- More than 2,200 schools and 240 hospitals have been "rehabilitated," the coalition said - though the amount of work performed has varied.

- As of January 2004, 860 secondary school master trainers, and 31,772 secondary teachers and administrative staff, were trained in programs funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development.

- School supply kits have been distributed to 1.5 million secondary school students, 808,000 primary school students and 81,735 primary school teachers.

- About 8.7 million new math and science textbooks have been distributed. The World Bank has issued a grant for $40 million for new textbooks for 6 million primary and secondary students.

- Twenty Iraqis have received Fulbright grants to study abroad, and six are women.

- More than 77,000 public works jobs have been created through the National Employment Program.

- Sixteen provincial councils have been established, along with 78 district councils, 192 city or sub-district councils, and 392 neighborhood councils.

- Health-care spending in Iraq has increased some 30 times over prewar levels. Between June 2003 and April 2004, more than 3 million children under five were vaccinated against diseases. A U.S. grant to the Iraqi Nursing Association will go toward training more nurses and buying uniforms, bed linens and nurses' kits.

- The new Iraqi dinar has been stable, and its value has risen by 25 percent over last fall, when the conversion was under way.


I guess none of that stuff matters, right?



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by heelstone
Please, the handover is to a puppet government.


even though the leader wasnt who our government picked...


[edit on 28-6-2004 by namehere]



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:01 PM
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look what we did to mossadegh and tell me we're not an imperialist agressor.


-koji K.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by nyarlathotep
Typical nitpicking by the Bush-bashers. They choose to pick on the electricity point, but how about all of this:

The overall number of telephones in Iraq, including cell phones, is up nearly 46 percent since before the war. Cellular phone usage has soared with more than 429,300 subscribers nationwide. More than 201,000 subscribers have had their land telephone lines reinstated, but there are still only 784,200 land lines, compared to 833,000 before the war.

So, the number of landlines has fallen by almost 50,000
The cell phone subscribers seem to make up for it.
The wording in that report is a little misleading though.
The actual report on the CPA website says "The total number of telephone subscribers in Iraq, including the cell phone subscribers, is 1,213,560, which is 45.7 percent greater than the number of active landline subscribers pre-war. "

They're comparing the combined total of cell phone + landline subscribers to just the landline subscribers pre-war. They mention the number of cell phones was very low before the war but don't give exact figures.



posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 10:27 PM
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you just HAVE to laugh. I CANNOT believe ANYONE can read this and swallow it as a good thing.



Health-care spending in Iraq has increased some 30 times over prewar levels.


Seriously, there is nothing wrong with questioning your faith, be it in religion, government, your girlfriend....if only to reconfirm it.

Try it. Its liberating.



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 12:17 AM
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The US government is a war mongering machine controlled not by the falsely elected President or by the goodwill to help others but a secretive group of a few hundred individuals that shape foreign policy and have done so for decades. This is the Council on Foreign Relations.

They care of nothing but their own agenda at the expense of whatever and whomever is deemed expendable. Their globalistic world view is what clouds their consciousness and guides their actions.

Their involvement behind the scenes in every major conflict that the US has been involved in is clearly demonstrable. People just have to look deep enough at the people making the policies, their affiliations and the underlying benefits of such undertakings.

Imperialistic occupier? That is putting in lightly.
To be fooled so simply by the likes of CNN, the Associated Press, the UN or any other 'source' of information is disrespectful to the very nature of this discussion board.

They are all tools of the NWO in fooling the average Joe and I am disappointed that so many on ATS quote these sources when formulating their opinions on issues of the day. After all, is this not a forum for open and clear thinking? Rational evaluations without the polluted interference of the skewed media? Are we not to think for ourselves in light of the constant bombardment from those attempting to control how we should traditionally think?

It is all there, plain and simple, we just don't feel comfortable with accepting things that are different than what we have been programmed to believe. We see it on the news, we read it in the papers, in the magazines.....it must be true!

The people and forces behind the majority of the world's media is the only sad and honest truth.


With regards to this thread's initial subject I can only summarize in that the staged transfer of power / sovereignty to the US chosen puppet regime is a complete joke and cannot even remotely be considered anything but a deceitful tactic in persuading the simpletons that are gullible enough to accept it. It only goes to further their twisted plans and agendas for a behind the scenes operation that will go on for many many months, if not years.

Oil pipelines, rebuilding contracts, another permanent US military base outside the lower 48, strategic proximity to Russian and Chinese interests and oh yeah....whatever Israel wishes!


E_T

posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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About history of colonialism, imperialism and globalization.
cyberjournal.org...



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 06:47 AM
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So tell me Merovigian if the mainstrem news sources are all lies what do you consider to be a reliable news source?
And how far does the conspiracy go?
Is it the media owners? the editors? the reporters? are the mailroom clerks in on it? What about the guy who runs the news stand down the street? Or the kid who delivers my paper?



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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Sheesh, I know this is a conspiracy board and all, but some of you guys are outta control. If I find a dime on the sidewalk is that part of the conspiracy too? Or holy cow the sun came up this morning, that must be because Bush wanted to divert my attention away from how his Cabal is trying to implement martial law....

I heard a statistic on the news a while back, that in the 10 years from the 1st gulf war no new hospitals had been built - You guys will probably say "because of the embargo -" blah, blah blah. Saddam did build dozens of palaces in that time however....



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
So tell me Merovigian if the mainstrem news sources are all lies what do you consider to be a reliable news source?
And how far does the conspiracy go?
Is it the media owners? the editors? the reporters? are the mailroom clerks in on it? What about the guy who runs the news stand down the street? Or the kid who delivers my paper?


Reliable news....what is that?

I am sure that 99% of the folk employed either as an editor, a writer, a reporter or a lowly paper delivery boy aren't involved. They have their jobs and that is all they care about. Furthermore, it is not their financial or political interestes that are affected by news stories.

Stray away from the corporate mandate and find yourself a new job.

All I am saying is that you can't believe everything that spews forth from the large media conglomerates. The people who hold financial and political interests in these outlets only stand to gain by manipulating what is released to the public and when it is released.

Having the worlds mainstream media in the hands of only a few is not a good thing, for you or for me.

Look at MSNBC. I believe they are owned by General Electric who is one of the largest defense contractors on the planet. Do you think they will allow reporting of stories that possibly could affect their perception in the public eye or the value of the shareholder's stocks? Will it affect them being awareded that $500M contract for new planes or bombs or whatever?

The same goes for CBS, ABC, CNN, etc.

Ask yourself everytime breaking news is reported or a video clip is shown or a briefing is held....'Who gains?'

More often than not you will find that those who stand to gain are not who you think.



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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mwm1331:

So the U.S. is an imperialistic occupier huh?

The U.S is in iraq to take it over, to steal oil and to torture iraquis huh?


Yeah, and they've been stealing oil the whole time.

www.christian-aid.org.uk...


Fuelling suspicion: the coalition and Iraq's oil billions /28.06.04

The US-controlled coalition in Baghdad is handing over power to an Iraqi government without having properly accounted for what it has done with some $20 billion of Iraq's own money, says a new report published by Christian Aid.

Download full report (166kb PDF)
More information on downloading PDFs

An audit, reportedly critical, of the coalitions handling of Iraqi revenues is not going to be delivered until mid-July after the coalition has ceased to exist.

Christian Aid believes this situation is in flagrant breach of the UN Security Council resolution that gave control of Iraqs oil revenues and other Iraqi funds to the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA).

For the entire year that the CPA has been in power in Iraq, it has been impossible to tell with any accuracy what the CPA has been doing with Iraqs money, said Helen Collinson, head of policy at Christian Aid.


Resolution 1483 of May 2003 said that Iraqs oil revenues should be paid into the Development Fund for Iraq (DFI), that this money should be spent in the interests of the Iraqi people, and be independently audited. But it took until April 2004 to appoint an auditor leaving only a matter of weeks to go through the books.

Early reports of the audit indicate strong criticisms of the CPAs handling of Iraqs money. But the CPA is not going to be around to be held accountable.

In the run-up to the handover, nearly $2 billion of Iraqs money has been hastily allocated. The new Iraqi government will be committed to these spending decisions.

Iraqs oil represents huge potential wealth. With half of the population still unemployed, the Iraqi people need to be able to see that the oil revenues are being spent to alleviate poverty and to improve their lives.


Go see the link they have a Press Release.

Free mason:

Romeo, in case you haven't been clued in, the Iraqis are producing more power than during Saddam's regime, purifying more water and have more access to health care.


That's a complete and utter lie. Please try to come up with better facts to back this up, since they're lies.


For future reference, don't blab your big mouth without blabbing some statistics.


Back up your own untruths before you slam others. I'll be waiting for your link.

Because your link was full of inconsistencies...


Electricity is now spread evenly across the country. Baghdad, which used to be favored under Saddam Hussein's regime, now gets 8-12 hours of electricity a day compared to 20 hours before the war...
(that's better? 8-12 is better than 20?)

More than 2,200 schools and 240 hospitals have been "rehabilitated," the coalition said - though the amount of work performed has varied. (rehabilitated? As in, fixed after the Coalition bombed them? After 11 years of sanctions? How many hospitals and schools were running under Saddam?)

The overall number of telephones in Iraq, including cell phones, is up nearly 46 percent since before the war. Cellular phone usage has soared with more than 429,300 subscribers nationwide. More than 201,000 subscribers have had their land telephone lines reinstated, but there are still only 784,200 land lines, compared to 833,000 before the war. (Um, HOW IN THE HELL IS THE AMOUNT OF CELLPHONES INDICTATIVE OF A STABLE ECONOMY? I know 13 year olds with cellphones.)

Twenty Iraqis have received Fulbright grants to study abroad, and six are women. (and this NEVER happened before? Iraq was one of the most well-educated Middle Eastern countries for YEARS!)

More than 77,000 public works jobs have been created through the National Employment Program.(why are they only mentioning Public Works jobs, is it because unemployment in Iraq is pushing 40%?)


Those are pretty pathetic stats. Hundreds of people killed every WEEK and you pretend that things are rosy? Nice try, but take a nice breath of reality. The USA has made a total mess of Iraq, and they did so by pushing lies and half-truths on the American public. And the funniest, saddest thing is, you're still defending those who totally took advantage of you.


Please limit your responses to something at least vaguely resembling fact.



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