Heavily-armed police train for possible Mumbai-style terror attack on the streets of Britain Read m

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Cosmic4life

 

Oh, c'mon... Martial Law in the UK? How, exactly? We're cutting troops numbers, we're cutting police numbers,

Oh i dunno, those Police Community Liason Officers have some mean skills on their mountain bikes.

I remember the 80's in ireland and Germany and we had to check our car EVERY time we used it, we had to report EVERY suspicious item, even if it was a thermos, so the bomb squad could blow it up. The amoutn of flase alarms I went through can't be counted, but it became a way of life.

Trust me when I say that back then wasn't all rosy

Very true. I started my military police career in Germany in the 80's and that was pretty much all we ever went to.

These days, we're looking to GET OUT of the wars we're in, they are too expensive and yet, somehow, people STILL BELIEVE that the UK is going to get itself involved in any bollocks going down in Tehran.

After the way we went to Iraq, i wouldn't hold my breath on that quite yet.

CX.

reply to post by stumason


Yeah nice rant there mate.

For your information i was in the Royal Artillery in the 80's, it was our depot in Woolwich that got blown to smithereens by the IRA, so please don't respond to my post in such a patronizing manner if you don't mind.

We can debate the issues or you can talk down to people and end up talking to yourself, your choice.

Cosmic...

reply to post by stumason


As much as I agree with all your points and the points that it wasn't that rosy.. we also didn't allow the threats to rule our lives they way the current threats effect our lives today (it did effect our lives but in a lot of subtle ways**) Granted I worked as a PM for the MoD back then so saw your side of the coin, but most of the incidents that could have taken my life or caused me serious injury where all civilian things like walking through Victoria Station** or waiting from Friends outside the Grand in Brighton (amongst a few others)

*note the subtle effect are things like, to this day I still walk very fast through Victoria Station and never linger, and my mind always plans a route out of London (or where ever) should anything kick off.

After the Grand Hotel we had a platoon of Ghurkas posted with us... (cool guys, the best I've ever worked with ) but I've never seen anyone over react or blow things out of proportion as they do today, this is one of the main issues I have with the way the Establishment react today.

Except once, and that was when our defence net went down (blown fuse) what followed was an amusing situation us all sitting back and watching a certain nations forces run round the countryside looking for an invading Russian force

reply to post by Cosmic4life


In that case, you should know better than to say the 70's and 80's were a doddle! It was anything but! You have to remember that todays media is 24hrs, has it's own news channels, is online and is in constant competition to get the headline, so they will report today as "breaking news!!!!!" what wouldn't have made Trevor's famous "....and finally" twenty years ago.

Besides, I wasn't being patronising at all. Civilians shrug off the IRA period as breezy, as for the most part it was for them. It was the Army being targetted, for the most part, not them, aside from a few big attacks which came with warnings. Islamic terrorists have a different MO and now people are edgy because they get no warning and the target is usually the softest of the soft.

As a former soldier, I would have thought too that you would be more level headed rather than saying ludicrous things such as "I have a gut feeling this is a step towards martial law". How, exactly, are they to implement this with diminishing amounts of soldiers and Police. they couldn't even do it now, let alone after any cuts. That is also assuming that the Officers and Soldiers would go along with it, which I highly doubt they would.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Blame the media. Like I said, they always need that next big breaking story, so will cover anything and verything, hype it up and try to outdo each other, usually losing the meat of the story beneath the reams of bullcrap and talking head "experts" that crawl out of the woodwork everytime they need an "opinion".

Back in the 80's, you had a couple of news bulletins a day and the daily rag. Life was slower and news stories that were covered were done in more depth and were worthwhile stories, not non-events trussed up as breaking news because it's a slow news day and they have 24hours of broadcast to justify.

reply to post by stumason


I agree with a lot of what you say.

There is a lot more hype these days, that is exactly my point, the Government and the Media are trying to get everybody into a lather, a heightened tension, near hysteria.

Why?..because we are less likely to over-rule our Government in times of strife perhaps?

We have a huge deficit, the economy could collapse completely if the Dollar crashes, if the economy collapses then so will the coalition.

I am pretty positive the true intention of this gradual build up in arms serves three purposes.

1. A genuine threat from Islamic Extremists.

2. A genuine threat of economic collapse.

3. A genuine need to maintain stability whichever of the first two occurs.

As to martial law.

Your saying that they would need more boots on the ground but i disagree, they are armed...we are un-armed.

I agree with you also regarding serving Army personnel would refuse such orders.

But we are not talking about the army here, we are talking about the police, would they refuse?

And of course the last question would be, would our politicians go that far?

Well i think we all know those SOBs would take every action they think they can get away with!.

I am not saying this will happen or that this is the case, i am just speculating.

reply to post by stumason


And the media does have a lot of close links with the establishment, who still dictate (to a point) what is/is not reported and the degree it is hyped (one of my issues with the media/establishment)

I see this particular story as timed to coincide with the current "Europe under threat" theme that has been running in the media/establishment recently. Yes, it could be seen that these details are released to reassure the nervous that the Gov is taking steps to keep them safe.

But on the flip side, If they didn't release details of the threat in the first place then there would no need to release details of the counter measures being taken! Either we are verging on really serious threat, or it is more spin from the media/establishment to keep the population fearful..

At the moment I am leaning towards the latter (this is more fear mongering) since we are under threat every hour of every day..

reply to post by Cosmic4life


I'm simply not sure of anything right now... the police are going to be decimated with these cuts.. I certainly don't feel they'll be in a real position to control the population... regardless of how they are armed.. being honest, the guys and gals in Lewes have been blowing up Pay and Display meters for the last 4 years (400+).. the one in the High street blown has been blown up 20 odd times with the County Police HQ at one end, the Prison at the other... yet no matter how many special operations they run no one has even been arrest on suspicion.. So I have huge doubts about the Police capabilities.

Any idea how much these preventive maneuvers and exercises cost the British taxpayer for an attack that may or may not happen? Last tally, the UK is in financial straits as is other nations around the world, and these readiness drills are quite costly are they not? Not to mention, militarizing the civilian constabulary poses added risks to the local populace in the event of a panic. Will these armed-to-teeth storm troopers be given extraordinary policing powers to arrest anyone and everyone when there happens to be a rumor of threat?

Keep in mind, this latest rumored threat may be another ruse to get countries in Europe and the United States in a tizzy as other ones have done in the past. Furthermore, we have some yahoo in a cave somewhere laughing as he reads about it on his laptop, and studies the preventive techniques. As I see it, counter the threat if there is one of legitimacy, but do so subtly and through investigative practices. You know, getting search warrants, knocking on doors, cross referencing evidence, establishing informants, ect.. Usual run-of-the-mill police work would suffice on the domestic front. Moreover, the intelligence agencies will do what they do abroad. Not this over intrusive, and downright abusive approach to all of it.

As I see it, if this knee-jerk approach continues when every schmo in the Middle East and elsewhere is the making threats, before you know it, we will be living in a police state. We will be asked the question of old, "Papers Please?" The apparatus for tyranny is being put in place under the veil of safety and security. One example would be the Patriot Act in the US. Perhaps, there is some similar anti-terror legislation in the UK? If we sacrifice our way of life and liberties to a bunch of clowns, then they have won. Perhaps, that is the plan all along? As conspiracies would have it, there seems to be an attack every time a large scale anti-terror drill happens, that I find peculiar?

Hopefully nothing comes of this threat of a Mumbai style attack hitting the UK, but it is imperative that we apply the breaks to this on going pursuit of overly intrusive law enforcement practices, invasions of privacy, and a subtle militarization of civilian law enforcement. If this environment of paranoia and fear is not stopped, it will be us who suffer the brunt of it. Give them that costly inch and they will most certainly take a mile.

Originally posted by davespanners
If there is a Mumbai type attack in London then the best thing the Police could do is move out of the way and let the SAS get on with it.
The Police can barely be trusted to use a small wooden stick with any degree of competency let alone a gun.

The SAS on the other hand....

OK lets clarify a few things here: the police's role is first intervention, thats because you can't have the SAS everywhere at once, whereas all counties have a police force. Their role is containment, while the role of SAS in this situation is resolution. The police will contain and where possible resolve, but the SAS will be called immediately and be on their way should things either escalate or not get resolved by the police.

It is better to have trained officers ready in case something happens, rather than expect the SAS to suddenly arrive on station. They will be in standby mode only if an attack is imminent, otherwise they would take at least and hour and a half to get there - probably more like 2.

And the reason for this change is due to the intel that was gathered pointing to a Mumbai-style attack being planned in Germany and the UK.

As I’ve said many times before, news articles such as these are often directed at the terrorists themselves just as much as the general public, even more so in some cases. Usually it’s reasonably subtle but today it has been a bit ridiculous.

I have never heard the SAS mentioned so many times on the news, or just on the TV full stop. It seems like every week we get a news report emphasising how our response systems are improving and our rapid response units are improving; they weren’t exactly slack to begin with. It’s a little obvious for those who like analysing the news for (not so) hidden agendas and messages but at least it works.

This isn’t willy-waving or anything, the fact is that the bad guys are terrified of the SAS. The prospect of dying doesn’t worry them too much as long as they get enough done while they are alive, but when the boys in black show up then their attack is over and they are well aware of that, they’re fanatical but they're not stupid.

Originally posted by Soshh
As I’ve said many times before, news articles such as these are often directed at the terrorists themselves just as much as the general public, even more so in some cases. Usually it’s reasonably subtle but today it has been a bit ridiculous.

I have never heard the SAS mentioned so many times on the news, or just on the TV full stop. It seems like every week we get a news report emphasising how our response systems are improving and our rapid response units are improving; they weren’t exactly slack to begin with. It’s a little obvious for those who like analysing the news for (not so) hidden agendas and messages but at least it works.

This isn’t willy-waving or anything, the fact is that the bad guys are terrified of the SAS. The prospect of dying doesn’t worry them too much as long as they get enough done while they are alive, but when the boys in black show up then their attack is over and they are well aware of that, they’re fanatical but they're not stupid.

Thats actually a really good point you make - its disclosure designed as a preventative action. Often the mere mention of the Regiment boys gets bad guys messing their pants, and quite right too. Princes Gate was the best PR the SAS ever had. What idiot would mess with them after seeing that?

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Hmm, I'm not totally sold that the establishment do control the media as much as is thought. Certainly not like they could 20 years ago.

I personally think that the Government would rather the media was better controlled as it would make life easier for them, although I do agree that there is fear-mongering, but I disagree this is to the Governments benefit. They end up caught between trying to placate the public because of media sensationalism and doing what is right, which inevitably ends up with a confused message and policy making.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

Hmm, I'm not totally sold that the establishment do control the media as much as is thought. Certainly not like they could 20 years ago.

I personally think that the Government would rather the media was better controlled as it would make life easier for them, although I do agree that there is fear-mongering, but I disagree this is to the Governments benefit. They end up caught between trying to placate the public because of media sensationalism and doing what is right, which inevitably ends up with a confused message and policy making.

Your probably right... I guess I feel we are stuck in a process of heading either towards the type of social revolution we saw in the 1800s (Luddite/Swing Riots) or some larger global conflict that'll redirect our attention from our internal issues.

So with that in mind perhaps I wear my tin foil hat to much when looking at this stuff