If this is true, the whole economic system is KABOOM for good

reply to post by djtek


Well its hard to know. I don't think it will be much longer no matter what they do.

Problem they now have is the unions are going to start having problems paying out on their pensions as the MBS trash starts to blow up, they will then use their political connections to the fullest to get paid. Then you see pimco just this week asking for a buyback of 47 billion in MBS from Bank of America. I have a feeling things are getting real bad when the financial's start turning against themselves.

Also what I have not seen explained to me is how a federal law can be retroactive, override all these buyback clauses and overrule all the state laws for what constitutes a fair title transfer. If the states agree to rollover maybe - but I don't know why they would as they own billions of the MBS crap themselves for all the state workers pension funds. The buybacks alone are enough to bring the whole system down without large government bailouts even if they do come up with a solution for the titles.

It will also come out if QE2 is again used to bail out the banks. If prices rise for the average man and they are made to understand it is because the fed printed up a bunch of money for the banks you would think at some point the common man will rebel. But then again I never ever thought they could keep the economy stable for the last 2 years, so maybe I'm wrong.

Originally posted by fonenyc
Steve Jobs is the answer to this economic crisis.... Jobs is a genius and a humanitarian.... I wish he would run for president... but he is probably over qualified for the job.... I remember the old Apples lol.... wow look whatta difference a day makes

No thanks, I'll take care of myself.
Instead on rellying on some one else, try relying on yourself.

could this move have anything to do with this?

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Warren Buffett's reputation as one of the world's canniest investors looks set to receive its latest boost as the 'Sage of Omaha' prepares to generate a $1.5bn (£956m) profit by selling his stake in Goldman Sachs.

Why do fools blame Obama for crimes that mainly occurred while GW was president?

We were robbed by the fat cats as a result of deregulation pushed by Gingrich and the republican congress. Clinton signed as part of a compromise, which was the biggest mistake of his presidency, but republicans pushed these changes as a cornerstone of their foolish free market idealism.

With GW in the white house, fat cat bankers knew that they could get by with what ever they wanted to do, clearly demonstrated at the beginning of the GW admin when they allowed schemers to defraud the state of California in the phony electric power crisis.

From the beginning of the GW presidency, it was the gun going off at the beginning of the race for the wealthy to rob the U.S. economy, and steal as much of the boomer retirement investments as quickly as possible.

It is not the old days where Obama can lead his troops into Manhattan, and round up all the bad guys like in the days of Andrew Jackson. We have a judiciary loaded with free market apologists who block the progress of justice at every step, put into place by repub free market presidents who have held office 20 of the last 29 years, and played a vicious game of "rob the middle class".

If any justice is to be handed out, it will be after winning a long and arduous chess match.

reply to post by poet1b

Why do fools blame Obama for crimes that mainly occurred while GW was president?

My guess would be that they still see the crimes being perpetrated by the same crew of thieves, with a different criminal sitting in the Oval Office.

How about this. Wait for all the corrupt banksters to take their stolen loot to their swiss banks and then set off slective an EMP blasts that destroy the electronic records but don't harm the people. Go in and dstroy any backup or hard copies of records- the locks will be open- they are electronic remember- Basicly a reenactment of the peasants revolt where the tax & debt records were destroyed. .

Nice to fantisize about.

Originally posted by poet1b

Why do fools blame Obama for crimes that mainly occurred while GW was president?



It is not the old days where Obama can lead his troops into Manhattan, and round up all the bad guys like in the days of Andrew Jackson. We have a judiciary loaded with free market apologists who block the progress of justice at every step, put into place by repub free market presidents who have held office 20 of the last 29 years, and played a vicious game of "rob the middle class".

I see your point about Obama being blamed as if he caused the damage. However like it or not he came into office to uphold the same agenda as all the rest of those who held that supposedly coveted position. To be honest people need to forget all that party stuff because the truth of the matter is simple there's only been one party, proofs in the pudding and the pudding is our current runaway economy.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Gold or other metals only have a "true" intrinsic value in a technologically developed society. The only other intrinsic value of gold is jewelry, an unnecessary luxury product that nobody cares about in situation you need to survive. In the past, gold was nothing more than a method to represent value. It is just as virtual as money is today. Money is just a bit more practical.

Wealth is all about luxury.
Have you ever seen some of the everyday items that the Incas made out of gold? It was so plentiful in their society that they placed a higher value on cacao beans(a foodstuff). The Egyptians made mirrors and combs out of gold, I guess because it seems to hold up better fishbones and beats looking at your reflection in a water puddle.

You are telling me that an easily worked, low melting point,non-tarnishing metal has NO value in a society that is not technologically developed??

edit on 21-10-2010 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

Sorry man but plastic has all of the same qualities as gold, but plastic is actually better because it doesn't biodegrade at all, and its lighter.... Sure gold might be better for weapons.... but gold is still too soft for good weapons... If the economy completely dumps, then everyone that bought gold is gonna be screwed.... you should have bought a stock pile of non perishable food, or some nice fertile land, and the weapons/ammunition to defend that land instead of gold. If i were you id sell that gold and buy actual important stuff for survival before its completely worthless.

Just realized...... MBS=MABUS?

And that one picture of Nostradamus with a blank book looking like hes saying wtf? Maybe it symbolizes the legal paperwork the banks don't have but should.

Just a thought...

Wells Fargo denied us a streamline mortgage today, even though we owe less than 20% of the value of the house, with stellar credit on my husband's part, and good on mine....

We were told "cash is not an asset"
Then we were told to put 2500 cash in the bank to cover closing.
When we did, they denied us, saying we had "untraceable cash"

Think our note is lost?
When we first bought the house, it was with someone else. The first year I could hardly tell who to send payments to, because it kept being transferred. We finally ended up w/Wells Fargo.

No need to answer. I really think it says a lot about the bank though. It speaks pretty loud to me.

Ok, to answer the 'if' question of this thread;

It is true that the economic system of most western countries (=we) is KAPUT.
Just the simply fact that we spend way more than that we make for years makes that clear.
From that point we can make three mistakes;

(1) We borrow the money we need to do that from 'producing' countries and the amount of borrowed money and interest we need to pay for this just keeps getting bigger. (Most european contries do this)
(2) We just keep producing money to fill the gap which will lead to a huge inflation of the currency (USA is a master in this one with the FED )
(3) We invent some of the most corrupt and dumb tools/ways to keep the money income artificially high, with no gold or real money to back it up. (That's what this thread is about)

It has been this way for a decennia.
Since 2004 I've been waiting for a KABOOM and convincing my family and friends that there will be a KABOOM soon, but nothing major has happened so far (silly paranoid me ).

At first I kinda wanted the system to go KABOOM, but I'm not so sure anymore.
The consequences would be horrific. I don't think western countries will let that happen.
More likely we will invent other tools to keep this broken economy going for now
and hopefully change it along the way with small steps in the right direction.
But only if we are able to learn from our mistakes.The good news is that the masses are now enlightened
with the wrong ways of our economic systems.
So there is a huge step 1!

My conclusion;
Our economic system is broken - positive
Our economic system will go KABOOM - negative
Our economic system will change with small kaboom's - positive

Kind regards,

Rav

I agree. I thought it might go belly up in a big belch of gas and smoke and rioting.

It's not going to, it's going to retire to a nursing home where we'll be cleaning up after it for years and paying for it's governmental medicine to keep it alive for years more with corporate welfare.

reply to post by pmckart

Sorry man but plastic has all of the same qualities as gold, but plastic is actually better because it doesn't biodegrade at all, and its lighter....

Plastic has the same qualities as gold?

Maybe in your world.
Mostly plastic is used as an electrical insulator, while gold is a very good conductor.
Pure gold cookware and utensils have been made and used, while most plastics melt if you put them on the stove to fry your morning eggs.
Saying that plastics do not biodegrade is not true. There are some 'bugs' that like to eat plastic. Try leaving a milk jug out in the sun for a while, the UV radiation breaks down the bonds in those long-chain polymers and the plastic gets brittle and falls apart.
Here is a BIG difference. Gold does NOT biodegrade(your statement I quoted infers that it does), and can be found in it's pure state in nature. Let me know when you dig up some plastic from a 'Plastic Mine'.

Big point here, the poster that I was replying to when you quoted me said that gold has no intrinsic value in a technologically impaired society. Answer me this: How many technologically backward societies can make plastic? They would need to get the oil out of the ground first. Then they would really need some technology to turn the oil into plastic.

OOhh, forgot to add... Sorry man??

I kind of wanted it to go, also.

Now I have shifted to wanting things to be honest and right, whatever that means. I would like to see more equality with people. There is no room for a controlling groups.

I believe all of humanity deserves equal treatment. Does that sound crazy? It sounds impossible at this time.

reply to post by butcherguy


And how is this gold-plastic discussion on-topic again?
We should argue in this thread whether there will be an economic KABOOM, or not.
When we find an answer to that question we can discuss further consequences...
Or did I miss the answer?

Kind regards,

Rav

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by pmckart

 

Sorry man but plastic has all of the same qualities as gold, but plastic is actually better because it doesn't biodegrade at all, and its lighter....

Plastic has the same qualities as gold?

Maybe in your world.
Mostly plastic is used as an electrical insulator, while gold is a very good conductor.
Pure gold cookware and utensils have been made and used, while most plastics melt if you put them on the stove to fry your morning eggs.
Saying that plastics do not biodegrade is not true. There are some 'bugs' that like to eat plastic. Try leaving a milk jug out in the sun for a while, the UV radiation breaks down the bonds in those long-chain polymers and the plastic gets brittle and falls apart.
Here is a BIG difference. Gold does NOT biodegrade(your statement I quoted infers that it does), and can be found in it's pure state in nature. Let me know when you dig up some plastic from a 'Plastic Mine'.

Big point here, the poster that I was replying to when you quoted me said that gold has no intrinsic value in a technologically impaired society. Answer me this: How many technologically backward societies can make plastic? They would need to get the oil out of the ground first. Then they would really need some technology to turn the oil into plastic.

OOhh, forgot to add... Sorry man??

edit on 22-10-2010 by butcherguy because: To say Sorry.

First there would be no use for a good conductor, in a post economic collapse scenario. There would be no power. Second, theres no use for gold utensils when you could find plenty of used metal utensils laying around everywere. It would also take way to long to make gold utensils, when theres standard ones everywhere. Your bug point is also pretty much irrelevant, because there would be wood and plenty of other crap laying around, for whatever you needed it for.

So basically in a post economic collapse gold, and plastic are on the same level, except gold is heavy as #, and good luck transporting it without gas... Plastic would also be easier to mold and create things with that would be of some use. In a post economic collapse gold would be totally useless except for jewelery, but people would be to concerned with survival to give a flying # about jewelery. Plastic would be more useful. Plus if we lost the ability to manufacture plastic, it could likely become just as valuable as gold later down the road.

Just think about it. Gold really is useless, except for electronics, and jewelery (which no one would bother with). If the world broke down Id rather have food, water, land. Know one in there right mind would give you these things in a post meltdown environment, in exchange for useless heavy gold. If the economy doesn't collapse congrats your rich, but thats not what the topic is about.

One likely wouldn't be more valuable than the other. Plastic and gold would have the same value, pretty much nothing. If I were you Id sell your gold, and stock up on cigarettes and lighters, they'd be MUCH more valuable in a post economic collapse. (obviously only do this if its on the brink of collapsing, luckily theres plenty of people on the Buy Gold Bandwagon.)

Sorry if i pissed u off man, but I'm just warning people who bought gold, because they really would be much better off getting real usable supplies if the world economy started going down the tube. If it starts looking like its going to crap out, sell your gold, and get supplies. Hopefully it would be in time. You DON'T want to be stuck with a # load of gold in that situation trust me. For instance, when the power goes out at a prison guess what happens... the prison doors swing open... You run into them there gonna want to steal your gold, and your not leaving with it in your possession. They likely wouldnt realize how useless it is until they have it, but its shiny ass got u killed so whatever. You be much better off starting a farm, and being self sufficient. At least if the prisoners showed up and you had a cigarette stash, you could run away with a decent amount. Gold is too damn heavy. # the damn prisoners would just be happy to have a #ing cigarette, you could have a nice smoke and a chat with them, maybe pay them to work on your farm, in smokes and food. Anyway I'm having a smoke now.....

Anyway to stay on topic.

What do you think are the chances that the government will enact NESARA, to attempt to fix the economic situation?

Pay them to work on your farm.... that is funny.

That type of breakdown in the system would leave that part of the world in chaos. All the deprived people who could only watch the wealthy before, would likely have an alternate plan. There would be a strong desire to experience things that were only wishes, for a while.

I am thinking the convicts would be a small group compared to all the other impoverished people looking for equality. There would need to be a mass extinction event to reduce/stress the population in the area.

Haiti, Rwanda, Chili, and any number of disasters where large populations were wiped out. What about this? What could be the purpose for wiping out populations in poor countries? Could it be so the wealthy don't have to look at and give money to stop the suffering? Not saying the wealthy did this, but the people who have money can carry on with a clear conscience spending that wealth on selfish goods. So that they can be immune to what is going on in the world?

When a person dies of hunger in the world, we collectively are to blame. It is not some other person's problem.

Originally posted by win 52
Pay them to work on your farm.... that is funny.

That type of breakdown in the system would leave that part of the world in chaos. All the deprived people who could only watch the wealthy before, would likely have an alternate plan. There would be a strong desire to experience things that were only wishes, for a while.

I am thinking the convicts would be a small group compared to all the other impoverished people looking for equality. There would need to be a mass extinction event to reduce/stress the population in the area.

Haiti, Rwanda, Chili, and any number of disasters where large populations were wiped out. What about this? What could be the purpose for wiping out populations in poor countries? Could it be so the wealthy don't have to look at and give money to stop the suffering? Not saying the wealthy did this, but the people who have money can carry on with a clear conscience spending that wealth on selfish goods. So that they can be immune to what is going on in the world?

When a person dies of hunger in the world, we collectively are to blame. It is not some other person's problem.

I hear you man. If all of the worlds resources were effectively and efficiently used, there would be enough food and water for every human on earth. Eventually we would have a population problem, but maybe our technology would be much more advanced so we could colonize other planets.

Originally posted by Rren

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
[...]
If you have your money in a bank you are a fool.

I've never understood that. Where should it be then? If the banks fail like that, then the entire system has failed and your (paper) money is just as worthless, no?

I'm not sure on that. If the banks completely went bust, I think there would be a short time afterwards where the average person on the street would still see money as valuable. You may still be able to use money for a short time to trade with other individuals - they may even perceive money as more valuable than it is, given that nobody else has any.