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Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?

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posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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Had I not seen Him on the cross for myself, as have others I have known, your OP makes some good points. I can see how you could try to rationalize that there is no God or Jesus who died on the cross because it is inconvenient to believe in the most believed historical event in human history and it requests your faith and obedience.

Anyway, what's your beef with a message of love from God?




posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by Soldier of God
First of all I believe in Jesus Christ not Jesjuah.
Secondly you already ran the same thread in April so if you do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God fine.
Why do you feel the need to repeatedly try and state your case???


Hehe. Are you saying that anyone were called Jesus before the Churchfathers invented the name "Jesus" to be a replacement or "translation" of the Hebro-Aramaic Jesjuah ha Mesjiach? Noone was ever called Jesus until the early Church fathers "translated" his name from Jesjuah (YesHVaH) which has a geometry in the three hundreds, into "Jesus" which has a geometry equaling the earliest known Number of the Beast 616? Get real.



So you don't believe. I do and someone with your agenda certainly won't change that.



Sorry Soldier of God but now YOU are the one who is WRONG. And your arrogant attitude towards non-believers is disgusting and disturbing to our Holy Lord and brings nothing but shame to the name of Christ !!! I know that telling any fundamentalist Christian that they could possibly be wrong about ANYTHING doctrinally will bring all of that beautiful Christian animosity...err...I mean love out for people to see. And I should know as I am a Spirit filled, born again Jewish Believer who can't stand much of the church's arrogance, cruelty and condescending attitudes towards non-believers. I think that Christ must be weeping in Heaven that so many Christians choose fear tactics over Unconditional Love to win people over. And it shouldn't even be all about "winning anybody over" anyway. It should be about YOU showing Unconditional Love and Divine forgiveness towards ALL HUMAN BEINGS...and leave the "Judging" to God on that final Holy Day.

So, now to the point: Jesus's name WAS NOT JESUS it was Yeshua which translated into its English form means Joshua NOT Jesus. Jesus is a modernized Greek translation. The letter J in Jesus was not even used until the early 18th century and it most likely came from Switzerland. Until that time Jesus was called, named and spelled Iesus. The initial J didn't come until much later because that sound was foreign to Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and even Latin. Even the original 1611 King James Bible refers to Jesus as "Iesus"and His father as "Ioseph"
Here, if you're willing to actually learn something new then try this link: www.slate.com...
And allow the Holy Spirit in you to give you the Godly courage to admit that you could actually be WRONG about some of your church dogmas. For Lord's sake be a Christian (with a mind) not a robot !!!
edit on 22-10-2010 by lapi7 because: Grammatical correction



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


How do you figure? Then why do we need a savior? The book of Romans says that all have gone astray, there are none good, no not one. It is faith in Christ alone that saves us, or else there Jesus didn't die for the sins of the world. Read Galatians, there is no law that we could do to be perfected. I't Faith only, not of works lest man would boast. That's true Christianity.



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by clinton777
reply to post by adjensen
 


How do you figure? Then why do we need a savior? The book of Romans says that all have gone astray, there are none good, no not one. It is faith in Christ alone that saves us, or else there Jesus didn't die for the sins of the world. Read Galatians, there is no law that we could do to be perfected. I't Faith only, not of works lest man would boast. That's true Christianity.


so paul says faith only

but then jesus says to get eternal life keep the commandments

hmmm who is right and who is lying?

hmmmm jesus said all the law is love, thats it



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by clinton777
reply to post by adjensen
 


How do you figure? Then why do we need a savior? The book of Romans says that all have gone astray, there are none good, no not one. It is faith in Christ alone that saves us, or else there Jesus didn't die for the sins of the world. Read Galatians, there is no law that we could do to be perfected. I't Faith only, not of works lest man would boast. That's true Christianity.


You said "all are going to hell", not "all non-Christians are going to hell." That was what I was disputing, though I'd still take issue with the second statement, but not in the same way.


Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
so paul says faith only

but then jesus says to get eternal life keep the commandments

hmmm who is right and who is lying?


These are not incompatible statements, so it doesn't follow that one is right, and one is wrong (never mind "lying.")

What Paul teaches is that we cannot achieve salvation on our own. Our own works do not save us, because they can't -- as Clinton777 points out, if they could, then what did Christ die for?

But, and here's the point that people seem to struggle with, Paul also comments as to the nature of faith. If a person doesn't repent, doesn't follow Christ's teachings, doesn't live by those two commandments, does he have faith? Paul says, and I agree, "no".

Works do not, cannot, save you. But works demonstrate that your faith is a real one, not just lip service intended to keep you out of trouble, come judgement time.



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Casaline
 


we must beware of what we worship and what is the truth. The Word of Christ was written way before the Quran was written. The Dead Sea Scrolls date way before the times of Christ. They all agree with what is written in today's Bibles. But they conflict with what is in the Koran. I use to read the Koran, until God delivered me to the truth. It was Issac that Abraham went to sacrifice, not the Ishmael, the son born out of adultery due to lack of faith that God would deliver a son from Abraham and Sarah.

He plants a cedar and the rain nourishes it. 15 Then it becomes fuel for a man. He takes a part of it and warms himself; he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Also he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it. 16 Half of it he burns in the fire. Over the half he eats meat; he roasts it and is satisfied. Also he warms himself and says, "Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire!" 17 And the rest of it he makes into a god, his idol, and falls down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says, "Deliver me, for you are my god!"
18 They know not, nor do they discern, for he has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, and their hearts, so that they cannot understand. 19 No one considers, nor is there knowledge or discernment to say, "Half of it I burned in the fire; I also baked bread on its coals; I roasted meat and have eaten. And shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?" 20 He feeds on ashes; a deluded heart has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself or say, "Is there not a lie in my right hand?"
Isaiah 44:14-20 (ESV)



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by Soldier of God
 


proof?

2nd line



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by Jim Scott
the most believed historical event in human history

lol... no, sry, its not the single most believed historical event in human history... in fact, there is far more evidence that jesus never existed.
And no one has a beef with the message of love, in fact, thats the message of most religions. Its the way the christians go around sentencing people to hell in the name of love that people have a problem with.

oh christians, you guys are so funny. you just dont get it. It's like calling Kanye a gay fish.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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Jesus was a man... he wasn't God! The Gnostics accepted this and they were the earliest spiritual inheritors of his words. The Vatican and later Christian sects decried their gospels and in their quest to rewrite history, largely denied any female aspect of this theology. Jesus may well have been the spirit incarnate... Like Ghandi and others, he was an inspiration to mankind! And really! This should be enough?



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy

Originally posted by Jim Scott
the most believed historical event in human history

lol... no, sry, its not the single most believed historical event in human history... in fact, there is far more evidence that jesus never existed.


Um... there is pretty much zero evidence that he "never existed", as one cannot prove a negative.

But, please, share with us your evidence. Since it is so overwhelming that it has convinced you, kindly enlighten the rest of us.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Culdeeson
Jesus was a man... he wasn't God! The Gnostics accepted this and they were the earliest spiritual inheritors of his words. The Vatican and later Christian sects decried their gospels and in their quest to rewrite history, largely denied any female aspect of this theology. Jesus may well have been the spirit incarnate... Like Ghandi and others, he was an inspiration to mankind! And really! This should be enough?


Christ claimed to be God. If, as you say, he was not, then he was either a liar or delusional. Do you generally believe that liars and crazy people are inspirations to mankind?

The Gnostics believed that Christ was a divine messenger, he wasn't "just a man." They also held beliefs that are in complete opposition to Jewish beliefs regarding the nature of God, material, and a number of other things. How do you explain Jesus being Jewish, and adhering to the Law, if he knew it all to be false?



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Odessy

Originally posted by Jim Scott
the most believed historical event in human history

lol... no, sry, its not the single most believed historical event in human history... in fact, there is far more evidence that jesus never existed.


Um... there is pretty much zero evidence that he "never existed", as one cannot prove a negative.

But, please, share with us your evidence. Since it is so overwhelming that it has convinced you, kindly enlighten the rest of us.


thats true. My evidence is more that the bible is a lie, therefore, so is it's savior.
The events that occur in the bible can almost all be linked to astrological events, and other stories are simply straight rip offs from older religion. Ex: in the bible, Adam is the first man. In Sumerian religion (way way older) Adamu is the name for the first men created by their gods.
Also, the story of Jesus is not new. He was just renamed for the purposes of the christian religion. Here is an excerpt from zeitgeist:

This is Horus.[M] He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC [S8] [D]. He is the sun, anthropomorphized, and his life is a series of allegorical myths involving the sun's movement in the sky. [S9] [S10] [M] From the ancient hieroglyphics in Egypt, we know much about this solar messiah. For instance, Horus, being the sun, or the light, had an enemy known as Set and Set [D] was the personification of the darkness or night .[M] [S11] And, metaphorically speaking, every morning Horus would win the battle against Set - while in the evening, Set would conquer Horus and send him into the underworld. [S12] [S13] It is important to note that "dark vs. light" or "good vs. evil" is one of the most ubiquitous mythological dualities ever known and is still expressed on many levels to this day.

Broadly speaking, the story of Horus is as follows: Horus was born on December 25th [S14] [S15] of the virgin Isis-Meri.[S16] [S17] [S18] [D] [M] His birth was accompanied by a star in the east [S19], and upon his birth we was adored by three kings. [M] [S20] [S21] At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher, and at the age of 30 [S22] [S23] he was baptized by a figure known as Anup [M] and thus began his ministry[S24] [M]. Horus had 12 disciples[S25] he traveled about with, performing miracles[S26] [S27]such as healing the sick[S28] and walking on water[S29]. Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others[S30] [S31]. After being betrayed by Typhon[S32], Horus was crucified[S33] [S34], buried for 3 days[S35], and thus, resurrected.[S36] [S37] [M].

These attributes of Horus, whether original or not, seem to permeate in many cultures of the world, for many other gods are found to have the same general mythological structure.

Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected.
[S38] [S39] [S40] [S41] [S42] [S43] [M] [D]

Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming. He performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.
[S44] [S45] [S46] [S47] [S48] [M] [M2] [D]

Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.
[S49] [S50] [S51] [S52] [S53] [M]

Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others. Interestingly, the sacred day of worship of Mithra was Sunday.
[S54] [S55] [S56] [S57] [S58] [M]

The fact of the matter is there are numerous saviors, from different periods, from all over the world, which subscribe to these general characteristics.



esus Christ was born of the virgin Mary on December 25th [D] in Bethlehem, his birth was announced by a star in the east, which three kings or magi followed to locate and adorn the new savior.[D] He was a child teacher at 12, at the age of 30 he was baptized by John the Baptist, and thus began his ministry. Jesus had 12 disciples which he traveled about with performing miracles such as healing the sick, walking on water, raising the dead, he was also known as the "King of Kings," the "Son of God," the "Light of the World," the "Alpha and Omega," the "Lamb of God," and many many others. After being betrayed by his disciple Judas and sold for 30 pieces of silver, he was crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days was resurrected and ascended into Heaven.[S59]

First of all, the birth sequence is completely astrological. The star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. [S60] [M] These 3 bright stars in Orion's belt are called today what they were called in ancient times: The Three Kings.[S61] [S62] The Three Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th.[S63] [M] This is why the Three Kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise -- the birth of the sun.[S64] [M]

The Virgin Mary is the constellation Virgo, [S65] also known as Virgo the Virgin. Virgo is also referred to as the House of Bread [S69] [S70], and the representation of Virgo is a virgin holding a sheaf of wheat. This House of Bread and its symbol of wheat represents August and September, the time of harvest. [D] In turn, Bethlehem, in fact, literally translates to "house of bread". [M] [S71] Bethlehem is thus a reference to the constellation Virgo , a place in the sky, not on Earth.[M] [S72]

There is another very interesting phenomenon that occurs around December 25th, or the winter solstice. From the summer solstice to the winter solstice, the days become shorter and colder. And from the perspective of the northern hemisphere, the sun appears to move south and get smaller and more scarce. The shortening of the days and the expiration of the crops when approaching the winter solstice symbolized the process of death to the ancients. It was the death of the Sun. [S73] And by December 22nd, the Sun's demise was fully realized, for the Sun, having moved south continually for 6 months, makes it to it's lowest point in the sky. Here a curious thing occurs: the Sun stops moving south, at least perceivably, for 3 days.[S74] [M] And during this 3 day pause, the Sun resides in the vicinity of the Southern Cross, or Crux, constellation.[S75] [S76] [M] And after this time on December 25th, the Sun moves 1 degree, this time north, foreshadowing longer days, warmth, and Spring.[S77] And thus it was said: the Sun died on the cross, [D] was dead for 3 days, only to be resurrected or born again.[S78] [S79]This is why Jesus and numerous other Sun Gods share the crucifixion, 3-day death, and resurrection concept. [S80] [M] It is the Sun's transition period before it shifts its direction back into the Northern Hemisphere, bringing Spring, and thus salvation.[S81] [S82] [M]

However, they did not celebrate the resurrection of the Sun until the spring equinox, or Easter. This is because at the spring equinox, the Sun officially overpowers the evil darkness, as daytime thereafter becomes longer in duration than the night, and the revitalizing conditions of spring emerge.[M] [S83]

Now, probably the most obvious of all the astrological symbolism around Jesus regards the 12 disciples. They are simply the 12 constellations of the Zodiac, which Jesus, being the Sun, travels about with. [S84] [S85] [S86] [S87] [M]

In fact, the number 12 is replete throughout the Bible. [M]

Coming back to the cross of the Zodiac, the figurative life of the Sun, this was not just an artistic expression or tool to track the Sun's movements. It was also a Pagan spiritual symbol, [S88] the shorthand of which looked like this. [S89] This is not a symbol of Christianity. [M] It is a Pagan adaptation of the cross of the Zodiac. [S90] [S91] This is why Jesus in early occult art is always shown with his head on the cross, for Jesus is the Sun, the Sun of God, the Light of the World, [S92] the Risen Savior, [S93] who will "come again,"[S94] as it does every morning, the Glory of God [S95] who defends against the works of darkness,[S96] as he is "born again" [S97] every morning, and can be seen "coming in the clouds,"[S98] "up in Heaven,"[S99]with his "Crown of Thorns,"[S100] or, sun rays.

Now, of the many astrological-astronomical metaphors in the Bible, one of the most important has to do with the ages. Throughout the scriptures there are numerous references to the "Age." In order to understand this, we need to be familiar with the phenomenon known as the precession of the equinoxes. The ancient Egyptians along with cultures long before them recognized that approximately every 2150 [D] years the sunrise on the morning of the spring equinox would occur at a different sign of the Zodiac. [M] This has to do with a slow angular wobble that the Earth maintains as it rotates on it's axis.It is called a precession because the constellations go backwards, rather than through the normal yearly cycle. [S101] The amount of time that it takes for the precession to go through all 12 signs is roughly 25,765 years. [S102] This is also called the "Great Year," [S103] and ancient societies were very aware of this. They referred to each 2150 year period as an "age." From 4300 b.c. to 2150 b.c., it was the Age of Taurus, the Bull. From 2150 b.c. to 1 a.d., it was the Age of Aries, the Ram, and from 1 a.d. to 2150 a.d. it is the Age of Pisces, the age we are still in to this day, and in and around 2150, we will enter the new age: the Age of Aquarius. [S104] [S105]

Now, the Bible reflects, broadly speaking, a symbolic movement through 3 ages, while foreshadowing a 4th. In the Old Testament when Moses comes down Mount Sinai with the 10 Commandments, he is very upset to see his people worshiping a golden bull calf.[S106] In fact, he shattered the stone tablets and instructed his people to kill each other in order to purify themselves. [S107] Most Biblical scholars would attribute this anger to the fact that the Israelites were worshiping a false idol, [S108] or something to that effect. The reality is - the golden bull is Taurus the Bull, and Moses represents the new Age of Aries the Ram. [S109] [M] This is why Jews even today still blow the Ram's horn. [S110] [M] Moses represents the new Age of Aries, [S111] and upon the new age, everyone must shed the old age. Other deities mark these transitions as well, such as Mithra, a pre-Christian god who kills the bull, in the same symbology. [S112] [S113] [M]

Now Jesus is the figure who ushers in the age following Aries, the Age of Pisces or the Two Fish.[S114] [S115] [M] Fish symbolism is very abundant in the New Testament. Jesus feeds 5000 people with bread and "2 fish." [S116] When he begins his ministry walking along Galilei, he befriends 2 fisherman, who follow him. [S117] [M] And I think we've all seen the Jesus-fish on the backs of people's cars. Little do they know what it actually means. It is a Pagan astrological symbolism for the Sun's Kingdom during the Age of Pisces.[S118] [M] Also, Jesus' assumed birth date is essentially the start of this age.

At Luke 22:10 when Jesus is asked by his disciples where the last passover will be, Jesus replied: "Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water... follow him into the house where he entereth in." This scripture is by far one of the most revealing of all the astrological references. The man bearing a pitcher of water is Aquarius, the water-bearer, who is always pictured as a man pouring out a pitcher of water. [S119] He represents the age after Pisces, and when the Sun, "God's Sun", leaves the Age of Pisces, "Jesus", it will go into the House of Aquarius, as Aquarius follows Pisces in the precession of the equinoxes. Also Jesus is saying is that after the Age of Pisces will come the Age of Aquarius. [S120] [M]



And the plagiarism is continuous. The story of Noah and Noah's Ark is taken directly from tradition. The concept of a Great Flood is ubiquitous throughout the ancient world, with over 200 cited claims in different periods and times. [S136] [S137] [M] However, one need look no further for a pre-Christian source than the Epic of Gilgamesh,[S138] [S139] written in 2600 b.c. This story talks of a Great Flood commanded by God, an Ark with saved animals upon it, and even the release and return of a dove, all held in common with the biblical story, among many other similarities.[S140] [M]

And then there is the plagiarized story of Moses. Upon Moses' birth, it is said that he was placed in a reed basket and set adrift in a river in order to avoid infanticide. He was later rescued by a daughter of royalty and raised by her as a Prince.[S141] This baby in a basket story was lifted directly from the myth of Sargon of Akkad of around 2250 b.c. Sargon was born, placed in a reed basket in order to avoid infanticide, and set adrift in a river. He was in turn rescued and raised by Akki, a royal mid-wife.[S142] [S143] [M]

Furthermore, Moses is known as the Law Giver, the giver of the Ten Commandments,[S144] the Mosaic Law. However, the idea of a Law being passed from God to a prophet up on a mountain is also a very old motif. Moses is just another law giver in a long line of law givers in mythological history. [S145] In India, Manou was the great law giver. [S146] In Crete, Minos ascended Mount Dicta, where Zeus gave him the sacred laws. [S147] While in Egypt there was Mises, [S148] who carried stone tablets and upon them the laws of god were written. Manou- Minos-Mises-Moses.

And as far as the Ten Commandments, they are taken outright from Spell 125 of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. [S149] What the Book of the Dead phrased "I have not stolen" became "Thou shall not steal," "I have not killed" became "Thou shall not kill," "I have not told lies" became "Thou shall not bear false witness" and so forth. [S150] In fact, the Egyptian religion is likely the primary foundational basis for the Judeo-Christian theology. [M] Baptism, [S151] afterlife,[S152] final judgment, [S153] virgin birth [S154] death and resurrection, [S155] crucifixion, [S156] the ark of the covenant, [S157]circumcision, [S158] [S159] saviors,[S160] holy communion, [S161] the great flood, [S162] Easter, [S163] Christmas [S164] [S165] , Passover, [S166] and many many more, are all attributes of Egyptian ideas, long predating Christianity and Judaism.


Now, while non of this is proof, it is enough for me to form an opinion.
What I challenge you t do, is find me ANY evidence that supports jesus existed that doesn't include writings from the bible.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Odessy

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Odessy

Originally posted by Jim Scott
the most believed historical event in human history

lol... no, sry, its not the single most believed historical event in human history... in fact, there is far more evidence that jesus never existed.


Um... there is pretty much zero evidence that he "never existed", as one cannot prove a negative.

But, please, share with us your evidence. Since it is so overwhelming that it has convinced you, kindly enlighten the rest of us.


thats true. My evidence is more that the bible is a lie, therefore, so is it's savior.
The events that occur in the bible can almost all be linked to astrological events, and other stories are simply straight rip offs from older religion. Ex: in the bible, Adam is the first man. In Sumerian religion (way way older) Adamu is the name for the first men created by their gods.
Also, the story of Jesus is not new. He was just renamed for the purposes of the christian religion. Here is an excerpt from zeitgeist:


You apparently weren't aware of it, but "Zeitgeist" was thoroughly debunked quite some time ago. Spend fifteen seconds googling "zeitgeist debunked" or just start here on ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Bottom line is that most of what the movie has to say about Jesus is flat out wrong, imagined by the filmmaker or otherwise not supported by serious research.

The safest and most sensible claim for an atheist to make is simply that they don't believe that Christ existed, and let it go at that. Once they try "proving" it, they run into the problem that the Bible portrays a pretty unique person at a pretty unique time that had very unconventional things to say.

The problem with just saying "I don't believe" is that it's not much of an argument for someone who does, and they feel the need to turn people away from God for some reason.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


one night after picking up a Gideon NT and as soon as I began to open the cover but before reading anything I heard an audible voice as if sitting on my left that said my name then "I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish" (before this I had been saying anything God and specifically Christian was all just something for the weakminded) then after many moons of reading I came across these-

*keep in mind there is nothing you can make up to say that I have'nt heard before of what you/they think it was or means
the usual being- it could have been the devil or I am out of my mind and many "religious", so...

Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.-John5.25

For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died-2Corinthians5.14

no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.-1Corinthians12.3

as to your comments of similarities in the past-

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds-Hebrews1

here is one symbolic historic example-

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the LORD at its border. And it will be for a sign and for a witness to the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt-Isaiah19

the destruction of Israel was another

They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you.-Luke19.44

For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.-Acts17.31

the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit-Jude1.19



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


I'll take a look.
but I never said I was an aethiest.
I take zeitgeist with a grain of salt too, but some of the ideas they have, to me, are completely probable.
The problem I have with christianity, is that it takes away so much of our power as individuals. How can someone be a truly creative person when they are constantly viewing themselves through someone else's judging mind (god)? If you take away the whole, heaven and hell, believe in me, yada yada, Jesus was a pretty cool person with god ideas, but those ideas weren't unique, they've been preached by various people from all over the place. Thats why i don't think jesus was a person, he's an idea.
And look, I'm not saying your right or wrong, I'm just saying that there is no way anyone can possibly know the truth until they experience it (death etc.). Thats why instead of sticking to one religion and saying this is the truth, take, digest it, get excited about, and then tell yourself, "hey, thats one possibility," and then go explore a different idea. There is value in every possibility, and as creative individuals, its up to us to explore them. Everyone seems to learn the same lessons in different ways, and those ways are chosen through our decisions and experiences. But you have to make the decision to explore new ways of thinking, and take the experiences and lessons for what they are and then explore something else. Its just such a closed minded way of thinking and being to say that this is the one absolute truth. Who is anyone to say that? Can't you see the trend in humanity's failures? Its that one sided way of thinking.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


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posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by adjensen
 


I'll take a look.
but I never said I was an aethiest.


... and I never said that you were an atheist, I just commented about how atheists who try to prove the Bible "wrong" would be better off just going with "I don't believe, and that's good enough for me."


The problem I have with christianity, is that it takes away so much of our power as individuals. How can someone be a truly creative person when they are constantly viewing themselves through someone else's judging mind (god)? If you take away the whole, heaven and hell, believe in me, yada yada, Jesus was a pretty cool person with god ideas, but those ideas weren't unique, they've been preached by various people from all over the place. Thats why i don't think jesus was a person, he's an idea.


Well, that's kind of the point about Christ's divinity, it is what sets Christianity apart from basic "do no evil" philosophy. Christianity is a way of life, yes, but we also believe that it is a way TO life.

I'm not sure what you mean about it taking away power from us as individuals, that's probably more perceptive than anything else.


And look, I'm not saying your right or wrong, I'm just saying that there is no way anyone can possibly know the truth until they experience it (death etc.). Thats why instead of sticking to one religion and saying this is the truth, take, digest it, get excited about, and then tell yourself, "hey, thats one possibility," and then go explore a different idea.


You're making an invalid assumption -- I have done that, and Christianity is the faith that I have determined is the correct one for me. It is foolish to discard beliefs that one finds true, simply to "keep exploring."



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


except that my truth is that there is no truth, at least, not one that we can discover in one lifetime. That being MY case, all we can do is live for new experiences.

In regards to taking away one's individuality, what I mean is that to truly be an individual, you have to know yourself. But how can you truly know yourself in a religion that labels things truly right, and truly wrong? Your thoughts are your own, and none of them are right or wrong, they just are. You aren't seeing all the sides of yourself because your looking and judging yourself through someone else's eyes, in this case, God.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by adjensen
 


except that my truth is that there is no truth, at least, not one that we can discover in one lifetime. That being MY case, all we can do is live for new experiences.


The difficulty in this, of course, is that if Christianity is correct, and you have dismissed it in favour of some sort of "maybe I'll get it right next time" plan, you aren't going to get a next time. To believe this requires belief in reincarnation, and without accumulated memory, which reincarnation does not seem to provide, your goal seem infeasible.


In regards to taking away one's individuality, what I mean is that to truly be an individual, you have to know yourself. But how can you truly know yourself in a religion that labels things truly right, and truly wrong? Your thoughts are your own, and none of them are right or wrong, they just are. You aren't seeing all the sides of yourself because your looking and judging yourself through someone else's eyes, in this case, God.


Well, probably because God, in the Christian view, doesn't really ask all that much. Love him, love everyone else as much as you love yourself. If you don't consider these noble goals, consider them too confining on your personal choices, that's fine, but I personally have no problem with it.

I am a part of a religious community, but that was more a matter of finding something that met my needs, rather than simply conforming to what this community expects. As an example, I am in favour of homosexual rights, which is in opposition to my religion, Methodism. But I don't really have a problem with that, because Methodism doesn't define my faith, just my religion.
edit on 23-10-2010 by adjensen because: as != ask



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
is that if Christianity is correct, and you have dismissed it in favour of some sort of "maybe I'll get it right next time" plan, you aren't going to get a next time.

As an example, I am in favour of homosexual rights, which is in opposition to my religion, Methodism. But I don't really have a problem with that, because Methodism doesn't define my faith, just my religion.
edit on 23-10-2010 by adjensen because: as != ask


Oh no!


If the Catholics are right YOU will be the one who doesn't get a next time.

Yikes!

With Love,

Your Brother






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