New Chemtrail Pictures!! (or is this just a Natural Phenomenon?)

reply to post by weedwhacker
thank you for the most informative reply so basically we are getting more toxic effects from ground pollution than with whats being ejected out of planes?

I am from that area as well and witnessed with my own eyes what the OP photographed. I also witnessed the unmarked silent planes spraying a giant X in another part of the sky. Other parts of the sky were clear and blue, as the day went on, those trails began to spread out into a gray cloud. There were other also planes in the sky with a contrail showing behind them that dissipated. The planes spraying the X and the lines in the sky the OP photographed, their trails remained in the sky until spreading into the gray cloud later in the afternoon.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


Hey good thread here and I too took some pictures and I am Located in Sarnia Ontario which is to the North East of Detroit and it was a real show here for a few hours. With the new format I cannot figure out how to pm you but If somebody can tell me how its done now I would appreciate it very much.
I also have a group of very good pictures from 3 years ago that speak volumes because of the flight paths.
We live right below the Toronto /Chicago route and a bit North of the Toronto /Detroit route.
Anyways we caught a few planes that must have forgot their lunch because they were doing big half loops.
And before you ask ....No there was no air show here in the middle of January :-)
I have no idea how to post the photographs here but I can send them to any body who could post them for me.
Regards, I winder

reply to post by Iwinder

Anyways we caught a few planes that must have forgot their lunch because they were doing big half loops.

I am assuming you mean horizontally?? (A "loop" is an aerobatic maneuver, in three dimensions...UP. Think of a big Hula Hoop, on its edge).

What you saw are airplanes flying holding patterns. They have a "racetrack" shape, and oval with straight sides of varying lengths...depending on whether they're timing the legs per the standard 1 1/2 minute rule, (high altitudes) or (to make it easier) a specific mileage distance.

For any budding, or wannabe pilots out there, How To Fly A Holding Pattern

Every pilot who advances as far as obtaining an Instrument Rating must learn how to do these.

Here's the Wiki article describing them: en.wikipedia.org...(aviation)

It is relatively uncommon for airplnes to be issued holds when they're still high enough to form contrails, but it DOES happen now and then.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes you are correct as in horizontally but the nearest airport is Chicago on the route above us here in Sarnia Ontario....... There never has been to my knowledge any holding paths over our international boarder here.
I have never before or since seen these half "horizontally loops" in my 50 plus years of living here.
If you want to see the pictures please pm me if the op does not as I don't know how to post them here.
Thanks for your "as always" thought provoking input.
Regards, Iwinder

When they spray over the top of you like that it's not meant for your area. The X pattern most commonly used is so the satellites can monitor the spray radius that contain pesticides, insecticides, heavy metals, barium salts, and aluminum oxides etc etc that fall in giant invisible clumps that seem to correlate to Morgellons disease. Hey tho it's all in the name of stopping of Global Warming so spray away

Originally posted by Gerizo
I am from that area as well and witnessed with my own eyes what the OP photographed. I also witnessed the unmarked silent planes spraying a giant X in another part of the sky. Other parts of the sky were clear and blue, as the day went on, those trails began to spread out into a gray cloud. There were other also planes in the sky with a contrail showing behind them that dissipated. The planes spraying the X and the lines in the sky the OP photographed, their trails remained in the sky until spreading into the gray cloud later in the afternoon.

My family was really caught up by the X, but I was more facinated by the rows. My daughter and wife insisted that the X was more odd. I should have shot more pics of that. Either way I'm thrilled that there were so many witnessess to this!

reply to post by Brad Jones


Utter rubbish, and nonsense.

You make such statements, you had better provide SOME sort of proof....else, it's just the inane ramblings of the ignorantly paranoid.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


What do YOU think causes the "Xs", Jon?? What does your wife and family think?? Have you done any research into the science of aviation, and contrails?? This would be an excellent "family-time" learning opportunity --- lest you continue in ignorance, believing in so-called "chemtrails". It's a bit embarrassing, really....you sound too intelligent for that.

Have you even bothered to look at my links???

www.skyvector.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jon, I have a gift for you!! I still don't know how to screenshot from the link, above...but, by coincidence, I was Googling and the EXACT image I was referring to happened to be there!!!!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/27d1c09cafc9.jpg[/atsimg]


Study very carefully, please. At the skyvector.com site you may scroll to one side, and a panel on the end of the chart has a legend that explains a lot, defines the symbols, etc. I'm not sure, but the government may provide expired NOAA aeronautical charts for free....certainly, you can also ask just about any airline pilot too....we use charts published by the Jeppesen company, they just look a little different, have all the same info. Every two weeks, we have "revisons" to do, changing out various pages...and the charts get revised about every three or four cycles. When they expire, we throw them away. A pilot will give them out for free, if he has any at the moment.

Once you have this info at hand, you can begin to comprehend WHY there are "Xs" in the sky.

(HINT: Have you ever seen a traffic intersection?? Or, a highway overpass that crosses another highway, at a 90-degree angle?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BONUS gift: aviationglossary.com...

Don't know why i didn't think of this before...click, and look to right, it links to a whole menu of goodies to read up about....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by JonInMichigan

 

What do YOU think causes the "Xs", Jon?? What does your wife and family think?? Have you done any research into the science of aviation, and contrails?? This would be an excellent "family-time" learning opportunity --- lest you continue in ignorance, believing in so-called "chemtrails". It's a bit embarrassing, really....you sound too intelligent for that.

Wow! That was pretty jerky of you! In the OP as well as in every single post I have written in this thread I have said that I am a skeptic. We were interested in the impressive phenomenon for what it was worth, also to open the debate to the ATS community with an open mind.

Even in the post before the last one I said "still a skeptic".

I said in the OP that I would not be defending that they are or are not ChemTrails and I have used the words "so-called" as well as clearly putting in the title if the post "(or a natural phenomenon)".

I thought the sky looked really cool, period. I didn't want to turn people off from posting their chemtrail theories by coming out as a flat out skeptic although I have been open an honest about that since the OP and throughout the thread.

I am glad the pictures of the sky the other day were impressive enough to generate a good debate. I have pondered some questions to keep things open and entertaining. But I have also shown that the lines do seem to ogininate from the airport and even drew a map illustrating that the angle was right.

I was impressed by how orderly the lines were in the sky as to ask a question ala In Search Of. i.e. "Were the lines in the sky too perfect to be jet routes?"

So what part of what I have said makes me "lest you continue in ignorance, believing in so-called "chemtrails"???

Clearly YOU are the one who hasn't read anything...like my posts or you would know I am a skeptic who is simply posting pictures of an interesting arial phenomenon for the purpose of the debate.

I think you are a total jerk for your remark and I deserve an appology! Show me one spot where I conclusivly called them chemtrails without offering the skeptical viewpoint as well.

edited to add:
I am just fuming right now! I'll lay it out there and probably kill my own thread. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN CHEMTRAILS! I thought the sky was amazing but no one has really sold me on chemtrails yet even though I was witness to an amazing sight in the sky. ATS is a site to debate conspiracy theories and I thought the pics I took would be great food for debate, but I did just want to distance myself from the debate and read what people had to say. I said my family ooooed and ahhhhed at the crosses and lines in the sky but I never said that I was sure they were chemtrails or had any theories about what they were. So you can #### me!

reply to post by weedwhacker


And one more thing...on page 3 I said clearly that I had heard of planes with tanks and nozzles and that after a little research I found the pictures I had seen years ago.

I said that upon examining the pictures that they clearly had SENSORS not NOZZELS on them.

I debunked the planes myself. I know you were reading page 3 because you posted right after I debunked the planes. I am a skeptic all the way and you sit there and insult me because you too much of a lazy #### to even read my posts.

And you were right about one thing: I am a smart. I have a masters degree in electrical engineering and work for a very prominent defense contractor.

Originally posted by JonInMichigan

 

. . .and you sit there and insult me because you too much of a lazy #### to even read my posts.
And you were right about one thing: I am a smart. I have a masters degree in electrical engineering and work for a very prominent defense contractor.

Hi, JonInMichigan, from another pilot.

I see you have many "problems" with a dude, I did put on [ Ignore ] long ago ! ! B-)

Did you see this extensive well done report ?!
www.chemtrailcentral.com...
Go 3/4 down the page and see the graph with 4 pink dots !
How bizarre/convenient: "the unregistered" planes do the chemtrails ! B-)

And don't worry, it will not be long before someone comes here to
bla bla bla bla about the site not being good enough. . . B-)

Blue skies.

Weather Modification.... it is not a secret

www.license.state.tx.us...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.weathermodification.com...
www.weathermodification.org...
www2.chinadaily.com.cn...
ag.arizona.edu...
travel.latimes.com...
www.ral.ucar.edu...
www.globalresearch.ca...
dsc.discovery.com...

Well, that's enough, that only took me a few minutes, it is not "secret" that weather modification goes on.

Use many different key words for your searches. Just about every airport has some form of weather modification system set up.

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by JonInMichigan


JON!!!!

I think you are taking my posts the wrong way intended.....please, re-read them!

Wow! That was pretty jerky of you!

Knee-jerk reactions are normal.....but, try to go back and check the posts again.....and check your emotions at the door.

I appreciate your claim of being "sceptical"....IF SO, you will look at BOTH sides.....I surely hope you will see the errors of the "khemtrail krowd" (even IF their motives are purely innocent, if just a bit misguided) once you see ALL the science. And facts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit: You might still be in "catch-up"mode, of all my posts, when you posted. Or, 'skimmed'....

AS TO a member above, bragging about "ignoring" me (a feature no longer available) and that "chart" or "graph"....if you wish, I will repeat the reasons for you, as to WHY that "data" is flawed. It is not a good example of "investigation"...and I can show why.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Sorry I flew off the handle. The point I am trying to make is that:

1. I came into this as a skeptic and stated that clearly. I had to create a thread and post these pictures because I knew it would be a great conversation. They are stunning pictures of the phenomenon usually associated with the chemtrail theory. Had any die hard chemtrail supporter posted them, they would have done it under the banner of "Prove these are not chemtrails" or something like that!

2. I have tried to remain 100% impartial putting out questions and mentioning that I am a skeptic in almost every post. I have been an impartial documentarian.

Everything was cool and fun until I got called: "ignorant", "embarrasing", "learning oppurtunity", etc.

Did you ever think for one moment that I posted these because I roll my eyes everytime I see the chemtrail thing come up on ATS and their pictures that are far less impressive than these (usually only showing a couple of lines persisting in the sky)?

I knew these pictures would bring out the die hard chemtrail fanatics and would make for a good debate if I didn't piss them off by saying tooooo enphatically that I don't really believe in chemtrails.
But you brought out the reactionary side in me when you called me a moron (in so many words) when I NEVER EVEN ENTERED THE DEBATE!!! (other than to say it was an amazing site to behold in the sky)

I did not deserve to be called a moron. I didn't make a case for them even being chemtrails.
There are plenty of conspiracy theories I DO believe in that you can call me a moron for, but the ones you won't hear me supporting are the ones that involve science as it is my life. I do applied research for a living and I don't need to "read up on aeronautics" etc. as you stated. So I think it's fair to say I have a right to be a little miffed about the vicious remarks. Direct them somewhere else! You would have an ally here in debunking these but I thought I would stay impartial for the sake of the civility of the thread....which you just threw out the window with your remarks.

'nuff said?

reply to post by JonInMichigan


'nuff said.

Sorry, the rmark that used the term "ignorance", ar any variation thereof, was not directed as a pejorative criticism....I am "ignorant" of Electrical Engineering, for example. (I am not sure if that was YOUR field, I remember "engineer").

When I was first learning to fly, I was also "ignorant"....compared to what I know now, about a specialized field.

THAT is all that was meant.

The increase in aeronautical knowledge, suggested....well, it's like trying to explain (I assume...since I am ALSO not an MD) how to perform surgery to someone not trained, and who has devoted a career to learning it. I thought that bit of urging, in directions that looked like something fairly "easy" for the layperson to swallow, was a beginning....(it's been many years since I taught people how to fly...and, then, it was one-on-one....)...

Capisce???

reply to post by weedwhacker


Thanks. Low blood sugar on my part (haven't eaten dinner yet)!

There has been a lot of hostility of ATS lately and I find myself caught up in it sometimes.

(could be the political threads I have been in lately)

While sifting through the MSM junk today this caught my eye.



politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

Don't believe what you see! ZZzzzzzzzzz Sleeeep, Sleeeeeeeep.

reply to post by 5 oClock


Yup.

I live NEAR the Wahington, D.C. area (suburbs)....I TOO see contrails (some days) and see NONE (other days) because....THAT IS HOW IT WORKS!!!

Contrails won't form EVERY DAY!!!! And, they won't form at EVERY ALTITUDE!!!

BTW...THOSE contrails?? Those are common, when conditions are right for thme to form, in the EXACT pattern your photo shows, because there are Jet Airways that are OVERHAED this region, aligned roughly north/south.

www.skyvector.com...

Go there. Type in, oh let's say.....KDCA just to center the map, and bring up the relevant charts.

(KDCA is the ICAO airport code for the Washington National Airport....also known as (gag) the "reagan" airport)....

When you get to the site, above, and input "KDCA", you will have to further click on the tab labelled "Enroute H-10", to see the "High" (that's what the "H" means) altitude charts for the area.

Take a look, then, at the BLACK lines on the chart...those are the Jet Airways routes.....see???

"J-75" is one that runs mostly north/south....well northeast/southwest. It is a VERY BUSY AIRWAY for most air traffic, from the northeast area (and International, too) to points in other parts of the USA (and the world).

"J-61" is another, as you can see. There are several others, and it ALL DEPENDS on the departure point/destination and how flights are routed.

I can show you DETAILED airplane routings, if you wish....OR, you can see for yourself, at www.flightaware.com...

Enter various city pairs, look up the flight details...it's not difficult, it's not "secret". IF someone bothers to actually research, and take the time to learn.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


I choose to believe weather mod., not to poison us but to reflect some uv rays.

NAGOYA, Japan, Oct. 21, 2010 (Reuters) — The United Nations should impose a moratorium on "geo-engineering" projects such as artificial volcanoes and vast cloud-seeding schemes to fight climate change, green groups say, fearing they could harm nature and mankind.

Something like this explained in the linked article, but maybe with a little burium & aluminum added for taste.

SOLAR REFLECTORS:
Spray seawater into the atmosphere to increase the reflectivity and condensation of clouds so they bounce more sunlight back into space.

www.newsdaily.com...