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Perpetual machines....

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posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 08:40 PM
I was watching a show on discovery the other day and i jsut so happened to catch the end of a show....i musta watched the last two or three minutes but they mentioned perpetual machines, and there was this old guy standing beside some ferris wheel thing that moved by its self. Does any one know wat the hell i am talking about...i am very interested to know wat that was or wat a perpetual machine is. Are there any that actually exist???...wat are they, and is there anyway they are gonna work sometime soon???...

posted on Jun, 25 2004 @ 09:06 PM
As far as I know, there is no such thing, but many have tried. Here are a couple of things that I found.

This was taken from here

I also found this:

The classic definition perpetual motion is not possible if any source of
inefficiency exists and a source of inefficiency (friction) is always present in
a classical setting. For example, even satellites orbiting the earth will
sooner or later come crashing down as a variety of outside forces work against
the orbit. Anything that adds energy to the system (like a battery) defeats the
spirit of the perpetual motion quest. An example of this is a pocket calculator
powered by solar cell and battery assist. To the user it may seem like
perpetual motion, but it is constantly getting energy from the light around it
or the battery inside.

Found that one here

Here is an image of the classic magnetic shield engine.

This is a cool website on perpetual motion devices.

Here is a cool machine. It is called Axletree Dynamo

This is a pretty technical site, but very informative.

I am trying to find a piture of this little solar powered machine that looks like a lightbulb and there is this little solar sail thingy that sits on top of a pin and as longs as there is sun, it continues to spin. I can't find it for the life of me.

Hope this help Luda, but I just don't think it is possible. It always has intrigued me though.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:07 AM
thanks a lot nyarlathotep....

that magnetic thing looks soooo awsome. Is there any way to suspend that thing like a maglev train so there is no friction. And also have it in a vacuum??...I dont think thats possible actually.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:10 AM
I don't know if that is possible. But friction is what makes perpetual motion impossible. Have you seen the little glass solar thingy I was talking about in my previous post? It is my understanding that is the closest to perpetual motion anyone has come, but I could be wrong on that.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:32 AM
Why is it that people still try to make these things, if supposedly they are impossible to make. If they break the laws of thermodynamics then its kinda a lost casue to attempt such a device. thats like trying to make a flash light with solar cells in front of it. And those cells being connected to the battery of the bulb.

I actually have seen one of those solar glass engines. We had one in out class actually. My physics teacher told me it has something to do with rising are inside the bulb. It air tight and the sun heats up the air inside and that causes a convectional flow of air. there is a little spiral thing in i right....thats at the top of the bulb.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:36 AM
I've seen the glass things, my science teacher has two or three, but I don't have him anymore school's out. They are positively bitching though.

As for the Magnetic engine - THAT FREAKING WORKS? I THOUGHT I INVENTED IT!!! Yeah, I explained the concept of perpetual motion and the concept of magnetically driven engines that run automatically for about 400 years until the magnets expire, unless you recharge them to a friend - He thought that was pretty cool, and together we came up with a magnificently more efficient design than that one you displayed. Think of it more like a fan than a wheel, and think of the fan's blades being more or less S shaped, so that North always faces one direction and South another. Same principle, but more efficient, and mine is geared to work like a turbine. Considering that we could start with natural magnets, we could produce other magnets with the generated electricity over time, and I think it would be a great way to get energy going. Of course, there is the possibility that the magnet will somehow find an equilibrium - that one you showed, is there a working one yet built? I had planned to make one during my university years, as well as another that uses curves and velocity to outmatch gravity, then uses those curves to toss a certain speed creating velocity, which swings through a tube into a curve, hits a 'conveyor', magnetically held, which throws the next ball, tossing the next and the next, assuming it was done in the right gravity and with the proper curve in a vacuum, I think it'd work, but it needs calculus for the right curving, and for minimal friction there is needed some complicated metalwork and magnetic creation involved and required.

While not truly perpetual, they're making use of the massive store of energy we already have available - and they'll do it for an incredible amount of time. These things should really be investigated more.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:45 AM
That is the thing I was talking about Luda. I always thought they were solar, but I looked it up and now know I was wrong and also why I couldn't find it before.

I guess the reason people keep trying is that they think the laws of thermodynamics are all wrong or something. who knows. One thing I noticed while searching after your original post was a perpetual motion machine contest. No one won, but there were two honorable mentions.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:53 AM

Originally posted by nyarlathotep
One thing I noticed while searching after your original post was a perpetual motion machine contest. No one won, but there were two honorable mentions.


posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 11:23 AM
Perpetual motion machines do exist ... in one way or another ... I posted about a fairly new (1990s) patented machine that will produce more energy than is inputed, but didnt get any replies --

It is a patented free energy/perpetual motion machine. It's just a little complicated. The guy who patented it seemed to go overboard in providing factual data in such a way that they couldnt turn down his patents... seems totally legit to me ... but yet nobody seems to care ....

"The particular conditions which prevail in a discharge tube operated in the PAGD regime, in which a plasma eruption from the cathode is self-limiting and collapses before completion of a plasma channel to the anode gives rise to transient conditions which favour the exploitation of anomalous cathode reaction forces."

"We have found that apparatus utilizing discharge tubes operated in a self-sustaining pulsed abnormal glow discharge regime, in a double ported circuit designed so that energy input to the tube utilized to initiate a glow discharge pulse is handled by an input circuit substantially separate from an output circuit receiving energy from the tube during collapse of a pulse, provides valuable energy conversion capabilities."

"The invention extends to a method of energy conversion, comprising initiating plasma eruptions from the cathode of a discharge tube operating in a pulsed abnormal glow discharge regime utilizing electrical energy from a source in a first circuit connected to said discharge tube, and capturing electrical energy generated by the collapse of such eruptions in a second circuit connected to said discharge tube."

"An energy conversion device includes a discharge tube which is operated in a pulsed abnormal glow discharge regime in a double ported circuit. A direct current source connected to an input port provides electrical energy to initiate emission pulses, and a current sink in the form of an electrical energy storage or utilization device connected to the output port captures at least a substantial proportion of energy released by collapse of the emission pulses."

"A cold cathode vacuum discharge tube is used in a circuit for generating pulsed autoelectronic emissions which are particularly intense and frequent in the abnormal glow discharge region, and involve much lower current densities than predicted by the Fowler-Nordheim vacuum arc discharge region law. The discharge tube is characterized by a large electrode area at least of the cathode, and a large interelectrode gap. The electrodes are preferably spaced at least 2 cm apart in a parallel relationship. A probe may be introduced between the electrodes to reduce still further the field required to generate the emissions. In another configuration the probe forms the anode and two plates form cathodes. The circuit is driven from a direct current source of having an impedance sufficient to prevent establishment of a vacuum arc discharge."

[edit on 26-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:26 PM
I am trying to understand this whole concept you have presented, but i just cant figure it out. Does any one else know what he is talking about???....Do u have a link or something?...Can i see some pics at least. And your post, which u have a link to only has a link to the US patent office and not a perpetual machine.

Please explain it in simple words. I am interested.

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 12:53 PM
Well I gave the patent numbers and the link to the patent search page, but I guess I'll make it easier :p d d

Its not easy to understand by any means... I cannot claim to fully understand it, but basically the P.A.G.D. reactor lets you build up a substancial negative energy charge using a smaller input than what can be gained. This can be wired to complete a circuit and you have free energy. Its not easy to find resources on this device or simplified explanations of how it works, so it seems the best is to go straight to the patent itself.

Heres one page that gives a slightly less intimidating explanation though:

"The Correa grid-independent Energy Conversion System utilizes an energy reactor whose function is based upon heretofore unknown spontaneous emission properties of certain metals in vacuum and involves an anomalous cathode reaction force conforming to Dr. H. Aspden's Law of Electrodynamics. The associated Motor Drive provides for direct electromechanical transformation of the energy accumulated within the reactor. The reactor may be conceived of as a portable vacuum battery made active only when needed."

"The Correa technology employs cold-cathode vacuum discharge plasma reactors to set up self-exciting oscillations, in the form of pulsed abnormal glow discharges triggered by auto-electronic emissions, in order to produce power. The circuit is driven from a direct current source of impedance sufficient to prevent establishment of a sustained vacuum arc discharge. In combination with a special circuit, electrical power in excess of the input power needed for operation can be extracted. The System, therefore, may also be referred to as an over-unity system: where net energy output greatly exceeds net energy input."

[edit on 26-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]

posted on Jun, 26 2004 @ 01:07 PM
Didn't think to look before, but he also holds patents in Canada.

hmm cant link directly to them -- hav 2 go to and search for patent no. 2141309 and no. 2147153

[edit on 26-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 08:56 PM
Sooo... nobody has anything to say about this? Nothing? This could change the world almost overnight if we could manufacture and distribute such a thing... nobody has anything to say? ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:08 PM

Originally posted by OLMGITNHFTWS
nobody has anything to say? ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!

I don't think it really works. I think you're laudable for wanting to help the world through endless energy, but this kind of perpetual motion machine is not only a priori impossible, but also has been the means for comitting almost endless investment scams. Please don't invest any of your money in it.

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:21 PM
First of all OLMGITNHFTWS, free energy and perpetual motion are two different things. As long as there is any friction, impossible to avoid with gravity, a perpetual machine is impossible.

Here is a definition of free energy:

The term free energy suggests that it should be some kind of energy that is free, i.e. it does not cost anything.

Now the question is, for whom it is free and in what sense. For example the source of energy is free for a hydroelectric PowerStation, since the river supplies the energy for no charge. But it is not free for the consumer. From the other point of view we can say that the wind energy is free for anyone in the sense that the energy source (as kinetic energy) is free (unlike the gasoline). But in order to utilize it for useful purposes, we need an energy converter, which would cost some money. So finally not even the seemingly free energy is really free.

The only really free energy in strict sense is the energy directly received from the nature, and utilized without any artificial aid or anybodys paid cooperation. We utilize such energy while taking a sunbathe, when there is no need to convert the energy of the sunlight to an other form (or to buy it from someone).

Here is the definition of perpetual motion:

The motion of a mechanism that, wothout any losses due to fricition or other foprms of disspipation of energy, would continue to operate indefinitely at the same rate without any external energy being applied to it

So, as you can see, they are tow entirely different things.

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:27 PM
You don't think it works hey? Build one and/or give me some scientific explanation if ur gonna talk trash. It is patented in 2 different countries! "Impossible" ?? NOTHING is impossible. If you ask me, The Creator would give us this gift. Why would He want us to burn oil?
I would be happiest if an easy method and step by step plans for cost-effective construciton of such a device could be devised for testing/and/or home use. Why not get off "the grid" if you can?

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:28 PM
nyarlathotep - Well this machine can create enough excess power to power itself and other things ... sooo .. it could .. in theory .. run almost forever (untill the components eventually break down) if set up a certain way .. could it not?? Isnt that basically a perpetual motion machine and free energy?

[edit on 28-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:42 PM
Well OLMGITNHFTWS, unless you plan on rewriting the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it clearly states that it is impossible.

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 09:48 PM
The Correa grid-independent Energy Conversion System utilizes an energy reactor whose function is based upon heretofore unknown spontaneous emission properties of certain metals in vacuum and involves an anomalous cathode reaction force conforming to Dr. H. Aspden's Law of Electrodynamics.

As posted above - I dont know if you can say it breaks any "laws" because it is based upon unknown/unstudied principles. The main reason these things go unexplored is because it is said to be "impossible" - just like the world was flat at one time. Also it is patented in 2 countries -- so I assumed they would have checked that sort of thing out?

[edit on 28-6-2004 by OLMGITNHFTWS]

posted on Jun, 28 2004 @ 10:59 PM

Originally posted by OLMGITNHFTWS
Also it is patented in 2 countries -- so I assumed they would have checked that sort of thing out?

At the risk of having you accuse me of "talk[ing] trash" again, no, this is not correct. You can obtain a patent for anything you want, if you provide a blueprint or other instructions on how to make it. There are many, many useless devices which are patented.

As for me building the device -- I don't have the time to build every "perpetual motion machine" I hear about. Since you're so interested in it, why don't you build it?

By the way, all I said above was that it would be best if you didn't invest in this, since there have been probably thousands of investment scams based on "perpetual motion machines." If you don't want to take that advice, fine. I just hope you don't have a family whom you are depriving to get the cash.

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