US physics professor: 'Global warming is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Here is the issue, pollution may not be synonymous with global warming, this might very well be a natural weather cycle, and it is being evilly exploited for money.

Blue Jay - don't get lost in the plot like the rest of these guys. Even if global warming ended up being just a natural cycle - this is what action against it is designed to eliminate:

Coal Plants

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/59f355793784.jpg[/atsimg]

Oil

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5b6f82dd0ed0.jpg[/atsimg]


Does this look to you like it's not associated with pollution? All those people that try to tell you all about how carbon is not a pollutant and it's good for the trees and blah blah blah can't even see the forest for the trees so...

reply to post by munkey66


I can sum the debate up in one perfect video.



What so many of you don't understand though is there is an intense political war brewing over global warming. On the surface it may look like your typical right vs. left cat fight but it is actually much more than that.

It is a war between the status quo and an entirely new paradigm. A paradigm that if executed properly would free you from so many of the oppressive devices that exist within the current one today. It would do this because the very real problem of global warming demands that we do it, because we simply have no other choice.

So let's come back to the tumor analogy munkey66: you state that the answer is "of course NO!" that you would certainly not ignore the tumor if you knew it was real. Then why are you still doing that if you just admitted it's real? I'll tell you why: because you have been conditioned, yes conditioned - as in brainwashed - just like every single other "skeptic" on ATS, to believe the tumor is made out of nothing but taxes.

What none of you, except my new favorite ATS member jpm06002, seem to understand is there is a critical distinction between the cancer itself, and whatever TPTB want to do to exploit it.

The real way to fight that cancer is to make new lifestyle choices - eat healthier, exercise, stop smoking. This is simply what people like us are trying to advocate - but to do that we need to first make you understand why this is important - because the tumor affects all of us and because it is REAL and it is URGENT.

But all you're doing is convincing yourself and everyone around you that it's not, that even if it is it's probably not a big deal - so everybody just stay lazy and stay uneducated and everything will be hunky dory. Then the extremists in your camp take it to the next level and tell anyone who'll listen about how we're in fact all just a bunch of crazy "health nazis", trying to fearmonger everyone and take away their precious potater chips, because our motivation to eat right is apparently based on nothing but lies and emails and global governance and yaddi yadda...

I have shown enough proof in my threads that the accusations of lies and emails and global governance are themselves all just lies propagated by the extremists of the status quo. They are part of a massive disinformation campaign to keep YOU from concentrating on the real story behind global warming, and thus the real way to go about fighting it.

But all of you continue to just ignore that part - even though I'm sure it's causing a fair bit of cognitive dissonance in your heads by now. Nevertheless you choose to eat their propaganda up instead because it's simply easier to swallow. And this is happening because all of your one track minds can't get past this part of the "debate":

oh yeah, the taxes...tha finger thing MEANS THE TAXES!

It looks like I am up against 2 fundamentalists

Both skirting the issue and throwing up more pollution proof, no one is arguing the pollution, no one is arguing the climate is changing, no one is saying that we should do nothing, Typical of fundamentalists

try and understand.
a price is on carbon will not solve the problem,

so answer me this, how old are you?
and how will a carbon tax save the planet?

Wow.

I just dedicated the last post to explaining how you are being brainwashed to take a completely blind, polemic stance on global warming - by getting whipped like some Pavlov's dog to only associate it with taxes.

And you respond by calling me a fundamentalist and then asking me how taxes are supposed to solve global warming?

You know the reason I even bother debating this topic on ATS is because the amount of blatant programming going on in all of your heads scares the crap out of me even more than global warming does.

But I give up. There is no way I can top that last response. We really are all doomed

.

reply to post by bronwyn82


Agreed! Global Warming is a bigger event that humans can comprehend. I haven't seen proof that this whole thing is out of the ordinary. If it is, I think humans are pretty egotistical to think they can control it. Nature is such an elegant and powerful thing that I find it foolish we believe ourselves capable of changing its course.

But if the climate really is changing, the Earth will work itself out. It always has and always will. Everything is so perfectly balanced that it will somehow correct the problem.

This falls along the same line of people thinking they can save species from extinction. We shouldn't be worrying ourselves from keeping nature from running its course. Species have become extinct for millions of years and we decide one day that we want to stop it. What's the purpose of saving a species? Nature will balance itself out if a species becomes extinct - so stop your worrying! This is really a whole different thread though. I feel the same way about Global Warming.

reply to post by mc_squared



I am the brainwashed 1 priceless

I am the one who is apparently going against the popular concencus and I am the brainwashed 1

Thank you for the hearty laugh, I appreciate it.

I don't bother reading posts using the Simpsons clips as a source of information though. Would you like me to counter your argument with a my little pony clip?

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by mc_squared

 

I am the brainwashed 1

priceless

I am the one who is apparently going against the popular concencus and I am the brainwashed 1

Actually it seems quite apparent to me that the popular consensus is that AGW is a scam. It only seems to be the vast majority of research scientists and wise, independent thinkers who know otherwise.

reply to post by munkey66


You just PROVED how programmed you are completely on your own. I didn't even have to do anything - all I had to do was point it out.

And I really like the ludicrous depths this discussion is reaching: you are now trying to simply laugh away these uncomfortable realities you are being faced with, and you're also trying to justify it by telling me you basically pick and choose exactly what you want to hear. And meanwhile on the last page you asked questions like this:

And why am I a denier?

reply to post by unityemissions


It doesn't even really matter any more which one is the consensus I think - what's much more telling is the fact that munkey66 feels that simply because he's going against the perceived consensus - that automatically means he must be the non-brainwashed one.

This is so typical of the absolutely naive logic these people cling to in order to justify their delusions.

munkey66 - there is a very specific reason why I named this thread: You have all gotten in bed with the enemy.

That thread got me something like 4 or 5 applauses from the mods I think - so maybe...just maybe do you think it's possible I'm on to something here? It was aimed directly at people on ATS just like you - the ones who have fallen completely in line with the establishment, simply because they have been so easily and superficially led to believe they are going against it.

I dare you to read it. (It doesn't even start with a Simpsons clip, so you should be ok to go)

reply to post by mc_squared


I honestly have no idea what you are on about?

I pick and choose what?

have you read anything I have typed?

I will make it bold for you
let us save the enviroment
let us use less recources
let us research renewable energies
do not assume a carbon tax will save the planet

I am all for sustainability, what I am not for is a proposed carbon tax which will do nothing but make rich men richer and poor men poorer.

for some strange reason you 2 are arguing climate with me and my stance has not been the climate but the tax which goes hand in hand with the C02 solution.

I read your thread and I don't know why you think I am on the oppositer side of you, I am agreeing with you.
Oil companies will not lose out on this because they can sell you less for more and claim its using the money to research renewable energies.

So I will repeat, I am not arguing the science, I am arguing the monetary solution.

reply to post by mc_squared

Taken from your post

Global Warming is a scare tactic alright - it's one designed to get people to finally wake the hell up and realize THEY have the power to change the world around them. That includes dismantling this corrupt demonic oligarchy that's keeping us the way we are. How many of you current GW deniers watched Zeitgeist Addendum last year and probably sang it's praises? Do you not remember what Peter Joseph said we need to do to defeat the system? We have to move to a resource based economy, founded first and foremost on clean renewable forms of energy. Why? Because it takes the most important cash cow/control system of the NWO away from them. These corporate fat cats are crapping themselves over Global Warming because it gives people the platform to finally figure this out for themselves!!

source
I highlited the important bit
If, they lose the oil cash cow, they will replace it with the carbon cash cow, that is how they keep control, they are not crapping themselves, they had this worked out long ago, they just needed the right product, because even if you have renewable energies, you will still produce CO2 just by being alive and have to pay for it.

These people did not get to where they are now by accident, they plan it out long in advance and discuss how they can benefit and as mentioned already, science knew about CO2 in the atmosphere over 100 years ago, plenty of time to work out a plan.

So I really think you have been tripped up by your own belief that teh fat cats are running scared, one of our largest companies has been calling for a carbon tax

THE boss of Australia's biggest mining company has urged the Federal Government to introduce a carbon tax before the rest of the world.

Why would a mining company call for a carbon tax when they have more to lose?

reply to post by 0ne10

Here we go again.. another complaint about the taxes..

Excuse me. I did not mention TAXES, and I am not talking about taxes. I am talking about the billions that corporations and groups are funneling into this arena! Read the post before you comment, and don't set up straw men. Such tactics show your argument to be devoid of any validity.

It is useless to continue trying to reason with you and mc-squared, because it is obvious you two do not have a clue as to the complexity of this issue, You both think that, without any real knowledge of the complexities and issues involved, that you can explain what no one has been able to do to date. Science involves being able to identify the factors, and reproduce desired results over and over again.

I'm off this thread, because trying to reason with those who have no clue as to the science is a waste of time. Both of you have flawed logic. Have a nice day. Unlike mc-squared, I will not resort to name-calling. It is beneath me. You jump to conclusions and have preconceived ideas, such as your rant about taxes, when in fact, it was never mentioned.

reply to post by munkey66


OK.

I think I can pinpoint exactly where the misunderstanding here lies. The following is going to be a long post but hopefully you'll find a very worthwhile one, so please read carefully.

So first off - no offense - because I'm sure I've probably pissed you off pretty good by now - and believe it or not I'd actually like to keep this civil, but ...you obviously have no idea what a carbon tax even is do you? (it's not like you'd be the first one around to be guilty of that anyway).

I can tell based on this:

I highlited the important bit
If, they lose the oil cash cow, they will replace it with the carbon cash cow

What do you think carbon taxes are taxing exactly? Please don't tell me you've actually fallen for this ridiculous propaganda that they want to tax "the air we breathe" or some false nonsense like that?

The oil cash cow and the carbon cash cow are the SAME THING. If one disappears so does the other.

Carbon taxes apply specifically to industries who use or manufacture fossil fuels - i.e. Coal/Oil/Natural Gas. Therefore if you stop using that energy source, there's nothing left for anyone to tax you on. (I already explained this on the last page by the way, so you might want to reread that post).

So now look at the problems we face both from an environmental perspective and as little consumer slaves to the big corporate oligarchy we live in.

The solutions to many of these problems (electric vehicles, personal solar panels, etc) already exist - but they are deliberately being held back by big business interests who prefer to keep us wrapped around their dirty fingers with finite resources that we depend on and that they control.

I mean why would these guys want to implement any solutions to this "problem"? It is more expensive for them and there's less profit in it. But...it is also more expensive because there is absolutely no infrastructure for it.

So look at it this way: In the 1800s the world's wealthy capitalists invested tons and tons of money to build railroads all across America and the rest of the world. They had to put up HUGE capital costs to make this happen, but they knew it was worth it because soon enough it would turn a profit thanks to all the trade/access to resources/business expansion this new infrastructure would bring them.

But now consider what happens if these same people apply this mentality to renewable energy.

Yes the enhanced infrastructure makes everything cheaper, but now they've just built us a system that provides everyone with access to cheap solar panels for example - and the "fuel" is absolutely free. We just found an escape route from one of their most important prisons, and they paid for it!

So why would they ever want to so much as invest in something like that?

But now look at where global warming fits into all this: the Earth herself is literally demanding we implement these things NOW. She is basically speaking for us enslaved little sheep. So as much as AGW is a bad thing, it is also the silver lining that could pull everyone out of the dirty entangled mess we've got ourselves into while under "their" thumb.

That is - if we would actually listen to what the scientists and the Earth are saying, and start using all this as a political platform for our benefit. But instead everyone's just tossing it out the window and denying it altogether - because that's what ExxonMobil's scientists told them to do.

...Now you ask why some Oil companies are pushing for a carbon tax then?

Because many of them simply understand global warming is very real, and they can see the writing on the wall. So they are merely putting their chips into the "solutions" that manage to salvage them as much profit as they can. Most of them I think are really hedging their bets by supporting a carbon tax and funding secretive denial campaigns at the same time though.

Anyway in case you still haven't noticed - I'm not a big fan of carbon taxes myself. So I don't know what we're really arguing over either then, but what I've been picking up on from your posts is a lot of general apathy towards the issue altogether just because of the association to taxes.

And what I'm trying to tell you is, if you understand the problem is real - the only viable answer outside of a carbon tax is to get everyone to start implementing these solutions on their own. And there are tons of ways to do that - centered around changing their lifestyle choices and consumer habits to reflect things like energy efficiency, conservation and renewable investment. In fact there's too many things to list in this post so let's just focus on the most conspiracy related - investment:

There are start ups all over the place these days, as well as power companies already selling clean energy, solar panels, home improvements - and now full on plug in electrics hitting the market too. So the more people that get on board with this, the more that market expands to meet their demand, the more people invest in it, the more the infrastructure grows, and basically it all starts to snowball from there.

It becomes quite affordable in the end, but the problem is it is going to be more expensive at first. There's just no way around that. So it's important to remember that this time WE are the investors and WE get to reap the profits in the long run.

Except now look at all the stubborn ignorant sheeple all around you who are incapable of understanding this because they can't see the bigger picture. How do you educate them - how do you motivate them?

You can tell them this kind of stuff but they'll either think you're a conspiracy nut, or most of them will likely agree with you (because it's pretty self evident) - but will they actually do anything about it? Probably not, because they're still sheep and they like to sit around and wait to see if everyone else does it first.

So now enter global warming and the whole green movement. It motivates people through that happy fuzzy feeling they get when they're told what they're doing is good for the planet. But in the end it also leads to the same exact results the conspiracy theorists want in terms of enhanced freedom from TPTB. So this is exactly why I'm such a "religious AGW fanatic believer" around here (as some of the more eloquent local village idiots will tell you).

Because I want these things too - both as an environmentalist and as a conspiracy theorist. But I can't make it happen alone, so I pester others on what they think they even know about AGW. And a lot of the really defensive people on here will also always try and say "well what are you doing to help the environment then"...hoping to catch everyone else with their pants down or something.

I like to think I do what I can, but let me ask you this: what's a more effective strategy - spending a bucketload of money to put 20 solar panels on your roof, or convincing a thousand other people to join you in buying 1?

But even to get them to make small sacrifices - you have to get them to care. There are all sorts of other benefits a simple paradigm shift in their general apathy would lead to, but for now let's stick to this:

Global warming is the perfect hot-topic, worldwide issue that can finally start to wake people up and make them understand they need to be the change they want to see in the world.

That's the only way it's going to happen. TPTB are simply not going to do this for us.

So now look at all the forces trying to keep everyone chained to the status quo, while first and foremost making sure they remain fast asleep. These people are just encouraging everyone to continue being self-involved, lazy, apathetic sheep - to do nothing but whine and complain about how anything stirring them from their brain dead slumber must be some scam to get their tax money or their lucky charms or whatever.

And all you need to do to squash any lingering doubt they might have is offer them some lazy, easy to swallow answer like "Climate change is just a natural cycle - always has been, always will be" and then stroke their egos with the idea that they're actually smarter than all of mainstream science.

The best part though is how this all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because these people aren't motivated to make any lifestyle changes on their own - but eventually TPTB still do have to address the problem of global warming one way or the other. So because the people are the key to this solution anyway, now you get to force them through taxes - and you get to make a pretty sweet profit as a result.

All because you let them talk themselves out of their own freedom and right back into their cage.

reply to post by mc_squared


Unlike many, I do understand how the carbon tax is meant to work, each country has a price on carbon and uses that money to invest into research, the problem being that no country is going to do it very well and it will come under a 1 global committee just like the UN.
so the UN will then take charge of carbon taxes and use it as it sees fit, unfortunately, both you and I know that just taxing big business will not be enough because progress is painfully slow even with consumer demand for alternatives.

The carbon tax will snowball l just like the swine flu pandemic, the WHO jumped on swine flu and declared a pandemic and we had schools closing, people being isolated etc.....
The carbon tax will be deemed not sufficient enough and everyday man will have to pay and fast in order to reduce consumption.

Once a carbon tax is introduced it will be the end and it will literally be the UN in your house telling you to turn off this appliance and that appliance to save the planet, your freedoms will be gone.
We already have our energy company selling a remote product that measures power consumption of particular appliances in the home, imagine this on a glaobal scale, even if we reduce emmissions by 50% over night, the recovery will take decades, enough time to get the next generation used to the 1984 big brother scenario.

remember that populations are growing daily so even if you reduce consumption, someone has just been born to take up your reduction that you saved and added to the problem themselves.

This is the genius of the carbon tax, populations grow and emmissions follow, even if they stand still as they are, it is still too much so harsher restrictions need to take over.

I could see carbon becoming the new world fiet currency as we move away from the oil, countries by and sell currencies using carbon and the UN controling it all.

FTR, I am not bothered by the conversation, people are either going to believe your well written out scenario from obviously a well educated individual, or they will believe me from a pretty much self taught individual who looks past the surface and writes like a chimp smacking a keyboard.

just look at what I typed for what it is rather than what you see as crazy, goverments have loathed to hand over power, the same with huge corperations hate to lose power, this is not about money, but about control, If I wanted to control you I would not take your money, I would find what you can't do without and then control that.

reply to post by munkey66

this is not about money, but about control, If I wanted to control you I would not take your money, I would find what you can't do without and then control that.

Totally have to disagree with you here. It is the absolute opposite. They ALREADY completely control our finite energy resources. And now this pesky environment thing is forcing them to loosen their death grip on this crucial sector, and (literally!) release it into the wind. So they are not happy about that at all, and I'm sure it's a big part of the reason why you see so much resistance and in-fighting going on amongst the elites themselves over AGW.

But whatever scam portion there is involved in the politics - and believe me: I'm sure there is one - it is all about money. It is about making the best out of a bad situation and taking care of their own first. That's why I'm particularly skeptical of ideas like cap-n-trade, or whatever they decide to do with carbon tax revenue.

But I'm afraid you're still not getting quite how carbon taxes work really.

Above all else they function like a sin tax basically - upping the price on the stuff that's bad for you, so that you not only reduce your consumption, but more importantly initiate a switch to healthier alternatives.

It is a market-based solution: meaning it acts like a silent hand guiding the entire economy towards a specific destination. People follow the money, so leveling the playing field between cheap fossil fuels and more expensive renewables simply creates a natural push in that direction. If the UN or whoever decided to suddenly crank up the taxes - it would just mean we would get there that much faster. So it's not like you don't have a choice in this situation.

Now where the tax revenue itself goes is of course also very important, but right now that's part of what nobody can agree on. Bear in mind though that even if the money went straight to a giant pit in Al Gore's dungeon lair - the market-based portion is still what's doing most of the heavy lifting.

But again - It's not like I'm defending any of it, just trying to explain to you this is the nature of the beast.

People can either live with it, or they can start getting off their asses and actually doing something about it. Because apathy and denial amount to absolutely nothing - and they are far and away much bigger reasons why people find themselves so "enslaved" in the first place.

We can sit here and cry and point fingers at the evil PTB all we want, but eventually if you really want to change the situation, you need to realize the responsibility falls on our shoulders and not theirs. Because those at the top are always going to try to exploit those below if they can get away with it - so it is simply our laziness and our vapid, oblivious self-involvement that act as their enabler.

And now you have a genuine situation that is supposed to light a fire under everyone's butt - and instead they're all using it as an excuse to stick their heads that much further up there.

reply to post by mc_squared


I think we will have to agree to disagree, but time will tell which one was closer to the mark, they arn't in that much of a hurry as those you think are losing power are in fact tightening their grip by giving the illusion of losing it.

in a game of Chess, 1 will sacrifice a few in order to win the game.♠

I understand his disgust with the APS, however, I would have liked to known WHY he suggests that Global Warming is a scam and to make the provision of such claims espoused in his letter.

I don't need a physics professor to explain that it is a fraud. Even as a teenager, when all the young kids were taught how naughty mankind was destroying the ozone layer, I did not believe in that nonsense.

I believe that the planet warms up and then cools down over thousands of years. It an alternate process which is not caused by what humans do.

I am sick and tired of the climate change BS that people are being subjected to. Sure the climate changes, but it has nothing to do with what we use and don't use.

For some, climate change issues bring big money. All the carbon foot-print nonsense and the taxes and so on.

Why do you think that the opinion of this one person is so important?

What is the criteria that should be applied with regard to which scientific professionals to listen to when searching for the truth about a scientific issue? It seems that a lot of people go about the process by first choosing the answer that they want, then looking for scientists who support that view - even though they may be a vast minority - and trying to represent that view to others as "truth".

Can you see where it might seem to make more sense to look at what the general consensus or the vast majority of scientists is on an issue rather than picking the answer that pleases you the most? Or do you think that some conspiracy exists which has control over these vast majority of scientists in the entire world? If that is your belief then please share the convincing evidence to support it that we might all be enlightened.