Glen Becks dream! our nightmare ! Firefighters watch as house burns to ground !

We're looking at the privatization of city services my friends. Is that ok?
Is it ok for services that used to be paid for in your property taxes, or local taxes, now be excluded?

In rural Obion County, homeowners must pay $75 annually for fire protection services from the nearby city of South Fulton. If they don't pay the fee and their home catches fire, tough luck -- even if firefighters are positioned just outside the home with hoses at the ready.

Does anyone have a problem with this? Just consider for a moment that if you can't afford to pay these PROTECTION FEES, you can't get emergency services?

Gene Cranick found this out the hard way.

When Cranick's house caught fire last week, and he couldn't contain the blaze with garden hoses, he called 911. During the emergency call, he offered to pay all expenses related to the Fire Department's defense of his home, but the South Fulton firefighters refused to do anything.

And why would they withhold possibly life saving services when the man offered to pay them in full? Were they trying to make a statement to others who refused to pay their PROTECTION FEE ?

They did, however, come out when Cranick's neighbor -- who'd already paid the fee -- called 911 because he worried that the fire might spread to his property. Once they arrived, members of the South Fulton department stood by and watched Cranick's home burn; they sprang into action only when the fire reached the neighbor's property.

Wouldn't a more responsible and reasonable action be to save this man's house and then work the bill out later?
news.yahoo.com...

Now what does glen beck have to say about this?

Not suprisingly, Beck and Gray argued that the county and the fire department did the right thing by not turning their hoses on Cranick's house. Beck argues that since Cranick did not pay his $75 subscription fee he does not deserve the fire protection. Going further, Beck and his co-host actually mock Cranick and his southern accent through much of the segment

Here's an audio clip of beck mocking this poor man who lost his house and pets because of privatization of municipal offerings at the county level.
www.examiner.com...

So if we can find this acceptable, we must use the same logic and apply it to other services. Let's see how this protection scheme would work.

Here's a possible scenario using the same logic as above:
Someone calls 911 because someone just broke into their house. They didn't subscribe to the monthly 911 service so 911 refuses to dispatch a police car and hangs up on her. But all is not lost, the neighbor, who can afford the subscription, see's the B&E and apparent scuffle, so she calls 911 who then dispatches a police car. The car arrives on scene and the officers jump into action by quickly checking to see who is and who is not a "police service protection subscriber". Their computer quickly determines that the woman who was a victim of the B&E and who is now being RAPED, could not afford to pay the "protection fee". Since she didn't pay the fee, she cannot get the service so they let her be raped but protect her neighbor from the rapist.

This is glen becks dream. If you didn't think he was insane before, I hope you do now !
Although he has a right to free speech, he does not have a right to free speech on tv and/or the radio. If you don't agree with becks vision for our future, refuse to do business with those who advertise on his show.

Do you agree with beck? If so why? If not, why not ?

reply to post by jfj123


hey noone will argue it was a crappy thing that happened...

but becks argument is sound if the fire department did put it out why pay the fee.........

if they know your going to put it out anyway hell im not gonna pay............

last time i looked a fire department aint cheap to run............

what beck says is true it makes sense but its still a crappy thing.

reply to post by jfj123


This has to violate all the Good Samaritan laws?

If I had the means and ability to help someone in distress, and I stood idly by, I could be found culpable in the damage. If a police officer sees a crime in progress, even outside their own jurisdiction, they are sworn to uphold the law at all times, so they must act.

I do not see how this is possible. I also do not know how the firemen survived. If my house were on fire, and a firetruck was within reach and men were standing between me and saving my house, those men would soon be disposed of and I would be using the firetruck to save my house.

P.S.
Plus, the fire department could have put out the fire and levied a lien against the property for services provided, and charged the man for the full cost of services, and they could still have made their political point by saying, "See, pay your $75 per year, it is much cheaper than $12,000 for on-call services."

reply to post by getreadyalready


I agree. This basically amounts to them saying "Hey, if you don't want your house to burn down, give us the $75."

I also heard that even if they paid the protection fee on the scene, it wouldn't matter because it was after the fact.

Beck is certifiably insane and needs to check into a mental facility - I have watched the show a total of 10 minutes, I can't stand the guy.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by jfj123

 

hey noone will argue it was a crappy thing that happened...

but becks argument is sound if the fire department did put it out why pay the fee.........

if they know your going to put it out anyway hell im not gonna pay............

last time i looked a fire department aint cheap to run............

what beck says is true it makes sense but its still a crappy thing.

edit on 7-10-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

But the bigger question is are you in favor of this type of privatization ?
Where does it end ?

reply to post by neo96


Apparently Beck has no compassion or honor left. No humanity, just an ideological fool, shilling for the
corporate oligarchy. He could easily have expressed his conservative ideals without mocking the man that lost his home and pets. If Beck is an example of conservative Christianity, I want nothing to do with it and those that
support this kind of BS and make excuses for Beck have no honor either; just shallow ideologies completely devoid of what Christ taught.

"Do unto others as you would have the do unto you" Sound familiar?

God help us!

reply to post by jfj123


well how has the public versions worked out so well..... how much taxes do you pay and whats the level of service you have gotten from it?

you sit there and pay your taxes into the system but has your house burned down? ever got into an accident?

ever had to ride in a ambulance? ever been arrested and given that ride in the ole black in white?

im going to go out on a limb here and say you havent.................i havent....

i am paying for the services and im not using them and yet the taxes get raised time and time agian and here i am footing the bill for services that i dont need and hopefully never need..........

to answer your question am i in favor of privatization well same things will happen that way as well......

no matter any way i look at this we are all screwed.

reply to post by whaaa


wheres your compassion and your humanity???? are you just an ideoligical fool as well ??....

you dont like beck and im not here to tell you should like him.....

and like i said where is your honor your compassion your humanity or "religious" views????????

you know sometimes the best way to help people is to do nothing for them at all......


man hate on the man if you must but hate is a wasted emotion what good has it ever done for anyone.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by jfj123

 

This has to violate all the Good Samaritan laws?

Excellent point I had not even thought of !
The firemen might be guilty of a criminal offense ?!?!

If I had the means and ability to help someone in distress, and I stood idly by, I could be found culpable in the damage. If a police officer sees a crime in progress, even outside their own jurisdiction, they are sworn to uphold the law at all times, so they must act.

Absolutely !
There are laws on the books in some states that a duty to rescue, is a requirement. I'm going to look more into this and post what I find.

Typically, good samaritan laws protect those who help as opposed to convict those who don't.

Plus, the fire department could have put out the fire and levied a lien against the property for services provided, and charged the man for the full cost of services, and they could still have made their political point by saying, "See, pay your $75 per year, it is much cheaper than $12,000 for on-call services."

edit on 7-10-2010 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

This would have been a much more reasonable response then to let a man's house burn to the ground and all his pets get burnt to death while they stood and watched. But remember, this is how you enforce the protection scheme. You make a BIG example of someone to scare the rest into paying for your "protection".
If you or I required someone to pay for "protection", we'd be in jail on multiple felony counts.

This is glen becks dream!

Glen straight out lies about health care coverage in the US. He claims that everyone can get all the healthcare they need by going into a hospital emergency room. If that were really the case, why is anyone paying for healthcare? This is his statement but I bet he is paying for healthcare ! But if what he says is true, then why would he or anyone pay for it?
Notice how he makes fun of people without healthcare? How he twists what the caller says?
Again, this is glen becks dream and our nightmare!

reply to post by whaaa


Hey Whaaa, I agree with a lot of conservative values, some I find extreme. Not sure what other "conservatives" think, but I'll tell you, I have ran this scenario over and over again in my mind since it happened. To me it's obvious there was a better solution, in fact I'd go so far as to say they chose the worst possible option. I think they could have simply charged the guy by the hour. The FD gets paid, and I would imagine the homeowner next time will make sure he pays the $75.

Beck is a lunatic, or a good actor, either way I don't enjoy listening to him. I hope his views aren't the norm for conservative christians, at least on this matter.

As to the OP

I don't think we should start privatizing crucial services. After seeing this incident, it almost de-humanizes (sp) these services. I think services like firefighting and law enforcement need to be as humane as possible. I don't know, since they're dealing with the safety of humans....

I'm guessing that good Christian morality now comes with membership fees.

Yeah... I went there.

Unless, of course, those firemen and county officials are all atheists/something else?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by jfj123

 

well how has the public versions worked out so well..... how much taxes do you pay and whats the level of service you have gotten from it?

I have access to all municipal emergency services. My property taxes pay for all of them. There have been no layoffs or downsizing in my township. The response times of at least police and fire are outstanding.

you sit there and pay your taxes into the system but has your house burned down?

My neighbors caught fire but due to the outstanding emergency services, their house and their family was saved.

ever got into an accident?

Yes.

ever had to ride in a ambulance?

Yes.

im going to go out on a limb here and say you havent.................i havent....

Read above. Your limb has broke. Maybe it was trimmed by a privatized municipal service

i am paying for the services and im not using them and yet the taxes get raised time and time agian and here i am footing the bill for services that i dont need and hopefully never need..........

And what happens if and when you do? Are you suggesting you'd like to not pay for those services and opt out?

to answer your question am i in favor of privatization well same things will happen that way as well......

no matter any way i look at this we are all screwed.

Privatization is the absolute wrong way to go for these services. They will only lead to more of the same. The fire department stood and watched the man's house burn to the ground and his pets die. What would they have done if his entire family was inside? Apparently it's black and white so they would not have done anything there either. They would have just stood and watched an entire family burn to death....screaming !!! That's glen becks and apparently your world. Sounds a bit like hell to me !
I'd rather help my fellow man than watch him/her lose everything. THAT is why we are screwed ! People who think of the all mighty dollar before their fellow man ! Again, welcome to glen becks paradise

Originally posted by JohnnyR
reply to post by whaaa

 

Hey Whaaa, I agree with a lot of conservative values, some I find extreme. Not sure what other "conservatives" think, but I'll tell you, I have ran this scenario over and over again in my mind since it happened. To me it's obvious there was a better solution, in fact I'd go so far as to say they chose the worst possible option. I think they could have simply charged the guy by the hour. The FD gets paid, and I would imagine the homeowner next time will make sure he pays the $75.

This is a reasonable solution but that's not what the county wanted. They chose to make an example of someone who didn't pay for their "protection". Make no mistake, this is a protection racket. Just like how mobsters shake down local business for "protection". You don't pay, we make an example of you !

Beck is a lunatic, or a good actor, either way I don't enjoy listening to him. I hope his views aren't the norm for conservative christians, at least on this matter.

Unfortunately, they are the norm. If you listen to rush or hannity or fox news, you get the same theme just presented in a lighter, happier manor but the message is the same and that message is if you're not rich, screw you !

As to the OP

I don't think we should start privatizing crucial services. After seeing this incident, it almost de-humanizes (sp) these services. I think services like firefighting and law enforcement need to be as humane as possible. I don't know, since they're dealing with the safety of humans....

I agree completely. Very well said !

reply to post by jfj123


lol man ok

so you actually got your moneys worth out of those services but what about those who have never used it get theirs?

ok how many americans pay their taxes into that system that never used them?

hey those services are there for a reason but we are all held hostage by them by the simple fact you pay or you dont get any...........

i think people are missing one critical point here in this case those fireman are in the employement of the city or township.....they can not act in their own free will that is if they want to keep their jobs,

rewind and lets say those fireman had put out that fire next day they would have all been fired quite a different story that we would be talking bout then or would we.....?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by jfj123

 

lol man ok

so you actually got your moneys worth out of those services but what about those who have never used it get theirs?

Well my house has never burned down but I do pay for fire and rescue. My neighbors did catch fire so in affect, I have paid to help protect my neighbors home. I have no problem with that at all because if we don't help each other, we are, as you put it, "screwed".

ok how many americans pay their taxes into that system that never used them?

Probably a lot. But the point is to pay into the services IN CASE WE NEED THEM.

i think people are missing one critical point here in this case those fireman are in the employement of the city or township.....they can not act in their own free will that is if they want to keep their jobs,

I agree and maybe I should have been more clear that I blame the county and not the firemen totally. But keep in mind that they chose to be part of the protection racket.

rewind and lets say those fireman had put out that fire next day they would have all been fired quite a different story that we would be talking bout then or would we.....?

edit on 7-10-2010 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I think that we as a country would be MORE outraged that courageous firefighters were fired for doing their jobs by protecting life and property.

But again, if we can make an argument for privatizing fire and rescue, then what about police? What about all other municipal services?
If you're being assaulted but forgot to pay your "protection" fee, do the police not show?
Sorry ma'am but I can't help you even though you're being raped because you didn't pay your monthly protection fee! Have a nice day !
Sorry ma'am, I realize that your daughter was molested by her teacher but you didn't pay your membership fee so we can't investigate.
Again, this is glen becks paradise !

reply to post by jfj123


what we have is one legal form of accepted extortion and one illegal form of extorion

public vs private

i have no problems with helping someone out either...........

i have no solutions to this and we are all screwed damned if we do damned if we dont.................

Originally posted by masqua

Unless, of course, those firemen and county officials are all atheists/something else?

Nah, it is just a good old mafia type protection scheme, southern style!

I wonder how Beck would feel if his home was burning and all of the local fire department was liberal democrats, who decided to let er' burn because he was such a flaming right wing prick?

reply to post by jfj123


There is a great scene in the movie Gangs of New York, where a home catches fire and two competing private fire departments basically watch the house burn as they fight over who should put it out.


Privatizing fire depts would be a terrible idea. What if there are several fire depts and you can choose which one you want to pay for. You pay for FD1 and your neighbor, who makes less pays for FD2 and his neighbor cant afford any service. If the fire starts in the home of the guy who has no fire protection, it could easily spread to the guy who pays for the cut rate FD2, who doesnt show up quick enough and now the fire spreads to the first guys house as well as a couple others.

Now you have a full blown inferno that encompasses a city block and is beyond the point of control. FD1 cant really call upon other FDs because they are all private companies and another FD cant guarantee that they will be paid if they come to help contain the blaze.

We have a hard enough time containing fires in the west when we have access to multiple fire depts from many cities and counties.

I think many are underestimating the power of fire. If not contained early, fires can burn entire cities. It has happened in this country before. Modern tech and the ability to combine the resources of many fire depts is what has helped to prevent the mass destruction that is possible from uncontrolled fire.

And as others have mentioned should this extend to other services? Police dept? What about trash collection? Do we jail those who do not pay to have their trash properly disposed of?

Public services such as these are in place because they provide more benefit to society as a whole. The potential extra taxes or cost when a service is not rendered by some, outweighs the potential problems from privatizing these services and leaving many individuals completely unprotected from dangers that we ALL encounter.

Neo96, why don't we just shut down the police, fire and ambulance services entirely? It's not like anyone uses them, and hey, the ones that want to waste money on services they probably don't need can hire private firms to provide security, paramedic care and hoses!