If you can’t kill a message kill the way it’s conveyed: My thoughts on the music industry!

Originally posted by drock905
Nreply to post by SphinxMontreal

 

So there are no songs about the current wars? There most certainly are. Here's the first one that came to mind.

Bright Eyes - when the president talks to god

www.youtube.com...

Or

Mason Jennings - the field

www.youtube.com...

Or

Josh Ritter - girl in a war

www.youtube.com...

Desparecidos - happiest place on earth

www.youtube.com...

edit on 3-10-2010 by drock905 because: (no reason given)

System of a Down - BYOB
www.youtube.com...

Most mainstream music nowdays seems like a brainwashing tool of tptb...watch a jay z video and see all the illuminati symbolism...what better way to get away with what youre doing then to get the people believing in a fantasy world of fame, party's, drugs, clothes, cars ect...? most music is loaded with subliminal messages and images to get people more comfortable with being a slave...want to hear a real band? try tool...

Wait a minute...what is good or bad music? Simply because the lyrics do not apply to you, doesn't make them bad or wrong or less thoughtful. This isn't to say that I don't agree that some of today's music is crap, but you cannot define "good" or "bad" music per se.

Some of you like CCR or the cure or head slamming metal - I personally don't, but I'm not going to call your music crap. I'm starting to dislike rap, but I still like Jay and Wayne (who is a great lyricist any way you put it). Where do people get off saying music is crap?

Someone posted the JayZ lyrics before with Illuminati references. You say its bad, but what if some kid google's illuminati, ends up here and learns a bunch of stuff?

I could take every band listed on here and point out a bad message they deliver, meaningless lyrics and alternative references. So before you call the kettle black....

I disagree.

Music has and always will be a two-sided coin. On one side you have the sell-outs, those who make a lot of money by doing what the record company tells them. On the other side you have the true artists, those who may or may not make a lot of money, but nevertheless follow their hearts and write the music they WANT to write. This has been the case ever since pop music began in the early 20th Century. Have a listen to Pink Floyd's album "Wish You Were Here". Listen to the song "Have A Cigar"; it's all about the record companies controlling the artists.

Everything you have said about the modern music industry is focused solely on "Pop" music (Lady Gaga, Eminem, Kei$ha and all those blokes). That music is terrible. I can say that with confidence because I am a musician, I have studied music for several years and I can immediately judge the level of depth in any musical composition. Pop music has no depth in its composition. It takes literally 5 minutes or less to write the chord patterns that they use in almost all of their songs.

There are modern artists who truly know what they are doing, you just don't hear about them because they aren't controlled by the record companies. If you sell your soul to the record company, you will make a lot of money, at the sacrifice of no musical freedom. They don't care, though. They are in it for the money.

That's why I listen to real music, based on its level of musical depth, its lyrical message, and how it appeals to my emotions.

Most people like the music from their own era better than the "modern" music. Some even like the music of decades past. I like many, many different musics from many decades and even centuries. I like music based on its true musical content and depth.

Nothing has changed; it only seems that way.

That is somewhat true, as a youngster(20 yo) I can relate to this post, as I was growing up through the 90's I frequently used to hear mostly hip-hop/rap and occasionally some metallica and such, There is a BIG difference between rap in the early/mid 90's to rap today, back then influential artists such as Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls used to top the charts, if you listen to their songs most have a deep meaning in the lyrics. Compared to today where the songs are all about money, cars, b*****s and h**s. Ive given up on mainstream, I used to be really into rap/rnb/hiphop a few years back. Nowadays I listen to all sorts of electronic music(techno,trance,hardstyle etc etc..) However I do occasionally listen to other genres, to me whatever sounds good ill listen to it, whether it be death metal, rap, hiphop, rock, emo and so on. If you want good music, look for underground bands/musicians.

I've been a longtime radio and club DJ, currently a mobile DJ at the top of my game and my job is harder now than it's ever been and getting scarier all the time. I used to be able to move around the eras and everybody really liked the best of everything.. or at least had some quiet tolerance. Now my audiences are way polarized. The 2000'ers hate anything before 2000 and the EverythingElse'ers hate everything since 2000. (generalized, but some nights hardly.)

The big scary difference is the anger, disgust and haughty holier than thou attitude the 2000'ers hurl at me if I'm not playing some soulless 2-week wonder of the moment they want like I'm withholding their drug. The EverythingElse'ers get off the dancefloor, tolerate and wait for their stuff to come back.

I think 10 years now of empty, angry, soulless, repetitive, nursery school melody, pop-porn garbage is having a huge effect on the 2000'ers soul and future and turning them into vacant robotic directionless addicts. Don't think that the tools that Tavistock developed in the 60's haven't been even more developed way beyond our awareness or aren't being incorporated with great specificity and deliberateness in our controlled media more effectively than ever before.

The point I keep making in conversations about this is... "What 'hits' from the last 10 years do you think we're going to run to the dancefloor for in 10,20,30, 40 years from now like we still are for the 50-90's music? I can barely think of 5.

On the other hand, the music that still works the best night after night is the 50-90's and despite the 2000'ers I notice a HUGE audience out there STARVING for more good music again. When corporate media realize how much MONEY there is to be made producing SOULFUL music again, maybe we'll get back on track.





reply to post by Muckster

I agree with the OP. Music today has definitely been dumbed down for the masses. Instead of art, it has been turned into a mass produced product only meant to last for weeks, and then thrown into the garbage only to be replaced by something new. Music was always a big business but there was use to be respect for the art. In the past you simply could not produce trash and expect it to sell.

Most of the music I listen to comes from 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. I think the 70s was the best decade for modern music. The creativity and influence of music from that decade was something special and it will never be seen again.

There are lots of bands that send a positive message.

My personal favorite song:

Anti-Flag - 911 for Peace

It's in the paper every day
I see it in the headlines and I feel so sick, yeah
Another life leaves this world (this world) so full of hate
But short
Short on compassion
Short on humanity
Asking myself in vain, shaken by the shock,
"do we even have a chance?"

I don't wanna die
(I don't wanna kill)
I don't wanna kill
(I don't wanna die)
We are all human.
It's time to prove it.

This is a plea for peace (world peace)
To the oppressors of the world and to
To the leaders of nations, corporate profit takers,
to the everday citizen
Greed, envy, fear, hate-- the competition has to stop.
When you see someone down, now's the time to pick them up
Set our differences aside and never look back, no

I don't wanna die
(I don't wanna kill)
I don't wanna kill
(I don't wanna die)
We are all human
It's time to prove it.

Isn't everybody tired of the fighting? (hey, hey)
Isn't everybody tired of the killing? (hey, hey)
Isn't everybody tired of the dying? (hey, hey)
Isn't everybody tired of the hatred? (hey, hey)
Violence.. fighting... killing...dying.. aaaaaah!!

[excerpt from Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech:]
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow,
I still have a dream
we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men
Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join
hands and sing
"Free at last, free at last.
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last."

I don't wanna die
(I don't wanna kill)
I don't wanna kill
(I don't wanna die)
We are all human
It's time to prove it.

We are all human
It's time to prove it.
We are all human...

What has happened to music? It just seems so manufactured and empty... No soul... no heart...

No, just commercial music is.

Private, non commercial, music released under licenses like the Creative Commons, is alive and well and kicking ...

www.freedom-artist.com...

reply to post by freedommusic


Really it all started going wrong with the invention of the printing press and again in about 1600 when the Transverse flute:and Irish Harp: started to fall from fashion and the soulful polyphony of Johannes Ockeghem was replaced with the simple pop sounding monody of the Baroque

Music was just better in the 60's.... the 1560's that is

Originally posted by Muckster
Modern music has has lost the plot!!

OK... When i was young I promised myself that i would never say that

I remember my parents berating me about modern music and how it was so much better in their day!!

But as I’ve grown old I’ve noticed more and more how the music industry is less about the music and more about the image... It seems that you have to be one of the following to qualify for a recording contract...

Slutty skinny supermodel, Metro sexual urban male or Gangster tough guy.

Am I just an old fart?? Have i become what i promised i wouldn’t?? Has my mind closed over the years, leaving me trapped reminiscing about the "good ole days" ?

I don’t think so... but then I would say that wouldn’t I

Here me out though... this is not just a rant...

My era was the late 80's early 90's... and even then I could see that the music of "my time" was going downhill. There were some great artists but I could see, even back then, a shift in emphasis away from vocals and towards image!

In fact... my parents were right... If i compare the 90's to the 60's or 70's then, quite frankly, it’s a joke! And if i compare the 60's and 70's to today... well... you just can’t because there is NO comparison!

The truly great era's, in my opinion, was the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Artist like...

Aretha Franklin
James Brown
Nat King Cole
Buddy Holly
Big Bopper
Roy Orbison
Ray Charles
Stevie Wonder

All fantastic artists who, had they been born today, would never make it in the music industry... Either to ugly or to fat to get a contract (by today’s standards)

What has happened to music? It just seems so manufactured and empty... No soul... no heart...

Help me out here... Are there any current tracks that can compete with the deep lyrics of songs like...

Bob Dylan - Blowin in the wind
Marvin Gaye - What’s going on
Bob Marley - Redemption song
Johnny Cash - Drive on
Stevie Wonder - Living in the city
Credence Clearwater - Fortunate Son

All of these tracks have amazing deep lyrics the can stir emotions... Compare it to Lady Gagas...

Rah, rah, ah, ah, ah
Roma, roma, ma
Gaga, ooh, la, la
Want your bad romance

Are there any modern artists who can match the smooth vocals of Marvin Gaye? Or the richness of Nat king Cole? What about the gospel sound of Aretha Franklin? The baritone soul voice of Lou Rawls and Barry White? The silk of Karen Carpenter or Barbra Streisand?

We seem to have lost everything that is important in music... The lyrics are empty, the vocals are average at best (when they don’t have a vocoder or auto tuner) and the message is wrong. All of this seems to have been bypassed in favour of image and attitude.

Don’t get me wrong... there are artists from the past who had image and attitude... but they normally had the lyrics and voice to back it up.

Could you imagine if the War in Iraq had happened in the 60's?? The amount of artists who would have wrote songs about it and give their opinion would be mind blowing compared to today levels.
Marvin Gaye was singing about the state of the planet years before anyone had even heard of global warming...

What has happened?? How did our music become so watered down???

Or do you think i am just an old fart who time has come and gone???

My person thoughts are this.... Music is one of the most powerful ways to convey a message... If you write a newspaper article about a war you might make some people angry... If you write a song about it you WILL make people cry.

TPTB know this... and I believe that there has been an orchestrated effort to dumb down our music... Instead of the political message... instead of love songs... instead fantastic voices... we have the hypnotic robotic droning designed to keep us good consumers who do not question world events.

Or, maybe, I’m just a paranoid old fart!


Be interested to hear your thoughts!!


Peace

Ok, being a musician, I will agree in the fact that to become more of a "Main Stream" Artist you have to be someone that can market themself, or in most cases people MARKET YOU.

Older music was solely about music and not image because at the time all you could do was listen to it, and it was made commercially available to purchase through music stores, at concerts, and recording songs on the radio onto a cassette tape.

With the advancement into technology and accessibility to music with a much more diverse genre selection, people are given a new look onto music as more of a visual entertainment rather than just the audio.

It is horrible that music changed like this, but that's what happens when it's not about the music anymore.

LOVE, DRUGS, AND ROCK AND ROLL.

I play drums btw, My favorite styles are Funk, Rock, Latin, and Jazz.

reply to post by drock905


hit the nail on the head. How many crappy artists from the 60s/70s have we totally forgot about? how many garbage bands were put up by label execs who tried to co-opt the protest movement to make a quick buck off the cultural current of the time?

Sure, we can't point to a current parallel despite being in a world with equal or greater chaos to inspire the art. However, theres also no sense of outrage as it was present in the 60s/70s. Without a population full of outrage, protest music will not rise to the surface. without a population ACTUALLY aware of whats going on around them, the music will be similarly unaware.

Looking at artists like gaga (who is plenty talented, without question) even her best music focuses the mind inwards on personal (or selfish, if you ask me) and superficial concepts. This is no surprise when most of her audience is teenagers with their heads down, eyes fixed on an iphone, texting friends about their tweet in response to a facebook status update. lol!

Its not a lack of talent in my mind either. Plenty of the best protest songs were pretty darn simple. A few chords, easy to learn melodies (great for groups passionate but tone-deaf marchers) and not even the best singing either- I mean come on, Bob Dylan has a TERRIBLE voice (musical equivalent of drinking coffee- you learn to ignore the roughness and enjoy the nuance)! What set these songs/artists apart were inspired lyrics, and these were wrote in response to outrage, not before it.

Great thread!

Well i can agree with most mainstream music today being total crap and conditioning, i am in my early 20's but i grew up in a home playing the classics from the 50's-70's and i must say the message was much more positive for being the mainstream of the time. Nowadays all the mainstream promotes is shock value, sex, materialism and a lot of the videos contain heavy occultism and symbolism found in the mystery school systems. I didn't really see this blatant symbolism in even the older music videos from the early 90's. Its a new common phenomenon. An example of this would be Kanye's latest video POWER...



I don't consider mainstream "hip-hop" to be even real hip-hop, its more like pop-hop made to dumb people down with materialism and stupid lyrics, real hip-hop has always been about educating yourself and knowledge of self through the uplifting of consciousness from its early days with public enemy to the now underground hip-hop scene which is all about the issues of today and would fit right in with the ATS subjects.

Underground hip-hop favorites of mine for you underground people or the guys interested in hearing real hip-hop not the pop crap on the radio and tv......

Jedi Mind Tricks - Psycho-Social Chemical Biological and Electro-magnetic manipulation of human consciousness


The Lost Children of Babylon


Son of Saturn


Kalki


The Shape Shifters - Know Future


The Shape Shifters - Planet of the Shapes


Mantra


Atma


Secta7


Orko Eloheim


Ill Bill


Masta Buildas


7th Sun


Pharaoh Snefru


Pep Love


El Vuh


Wyze Mindz


The Beyonders


Circus


Conspiracy of Mind


Sick Since


Of Mexican Descent


Non-Phixion


there's plenty more also, tons of amazing underground hip-hop that's actively doing its part but its very underground and hard to come by, these guys don't do it for money they do it for the underground hip-hop heads who remain true to the old way which was bringing knowledge to themselves, that's where the term knowledge of self comes from.

This is why I am so fond of QUEENS OF THE STONE AGE

They aren't sellouts, there's no "image" like rap, country, punk

And they sound like no one else but themselves

Josh Homme is probably one of if not the only original act around

Sometimes it's pretty hard to be a 50's/60's era jazz/blues lover and not being able to share the music because they just wont listen, and i'm in my early twenties so you can put yourself in that situation. Herbie Hancock, Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis, Art Blakey, Wes Montgomery... I could go on and on. Saddens me to see that popularity seems to be suffocating quality to death. A lot of modern music just sends that "negative" vibe through my spine, i usually dont find myself listening to whats being brought out today for long periods of time.

Sure, there are some good artists out there, but i just dont seem to be catching onto the times, they have eluded me so far. Frankly, i dont really care. I always know there are likeminded people out there. I could qualify myself as an "old fart" in a young body when it comes to music. At times i prefer longplay records to cd.

I am fortunate to have some prestigious jazz clubs and concerthalls nearby, that and the North Sea jazz festival hosted here draws in a huge amount of quality every year, old and young. Yeah, some minds refuse to be screwed up by what the masses/media tell them to listen.

I think peer to peer file sharing has changed the music industry.
People that want to download music for free, albeit illegally and with the associated risks, can do it easily, if they know how to. That's any music at all, from the most obscure, to the commercial top ten. Currently, though the major entertainment corporations are attempting to put systems in place to stop this, those systems are in their infancy and flawed, whilst the pirating community is experienced, well established and highly organised.
This means that the recorded music for sale must be marketed at consumers that won't be tempted to acquire free, illegal music downloads. Who are this demographic that aren't internet literate? Young children and older people, that's who. Young children are most concenred with the image of the musicians they listen to, and older people are mostly set in their ways and not about to develop an interest in the Scandinavian 'Skwee' genre (except for John Peel, but he's dead).

reply to post by Muckster


I dont think its lost the plot.... just control of the means of distribution.

In days of old, companies such as EMI and HMV etc would own record pressing plants and assorted manufacturing facilities. That started to change a little when cassette tapes became commercially available (which was still quite profitable for the companies as they got the money for the unit, which went on to be used to copy from the LP, screwing the artist out of their hard-earned...)

If we're talking about the music selling industry, its always been about the image. Thats ALL it's about. A new marketing take on moving units out the door. The content is well... just content, which brings us into the modern age. When content is ALL there is, how do you market the product. Answer: you dont. You sell the image that you project by associating peoples wants/desires with the product through its brand, which in todays case are the Gagas and Kanyes.

Yes... ur getting too old for pop. Your tastes are maturing. It happens to all of us after the age of 21.

Dave

reply to post by unfor54k3n


This is all lyricists though. (Rap-Underground)
The music isn't anything inventive.
But you're on the right track going to underground music, but we're talking about image along with fame in music.
Think bigger "Mainstream" Bigger.

Originally posted by Muckster
Modern music has has lost the plot!!

OK... When i was young I promised myself that i would never say that

I remember my parents berating me about modern music and how it was so much better in their day!!

But as I’ve grown old I’ve noticed more and more how the music industry is less about the music and more about the image... It seems that you have to be one of the following to qualify for a recording contract...

Slutty skinny supermodel, Metro sexual urban male or Gangster tough guy.

Am I just an old fart?? Have i become what i promised i wouldn’t?? Has my mind closed over the years, leaving me trapped reminiscing about the "good ole days" ?

I don’t think so... but then I would say that wouldn’t I

Here me out though... this is not just a rant...

.

Artist like...

Aretha Franklin
James Brown
Nat King Cole
Buddy Holly
Big Bopper
Roy Orbison
Ray Charles
Stevie Wonder

All fantastic artists who, had they been born today, would never make it in the music industry... Either to ugly or to fat to get a contract (by today’s standards)

What has happened to music? It just seems so manufactured and empty... No soul... no heart...

Help me out here... Are there any current tracks that can compete with the deep lyrics of songs like...

Bob Dylan - Blowin in the wind
Marvin Gaye - What’s going on
Bob Marley - Redemption song
Johnny Cash - Drive on
Stevie Wonder - Living in the city
Credence Clearwater - Fortunate Son

All of these tracks have amazing deep lyrics the can stir emotions... Compare it to Lady Gagas...

Rah, rah, ah, ah, ah
Roma, roma, ma
Gaga, ooh, la, la
Want your bad romance

Are there any modern artists who can match the smooth vocals of Marvin Gaye? Or the richness of Nat king Cole? What about the gospel sound of Aretha Franklin? The baritone soul voice of Lou Rawls and Barry White? The silk of Karen Carpenter or Barbra Streisand?

We seem to have lost everything that is important in music... The lyrics are empty, the vocals are average at best (when they don’t have a vocoder or auto tuner) and the message is wrong. All of this seems to have been bypassed in favour of image and attitude.

Don’t get me wrong... there are artists from the past who had image and attitude... but they normally had the lyrics and voice to back it up.

Could you imagine if the War in Iraq had happened in the 60's?? The amount of artists who would have wrote songs about it and give their opinion would be mind blowing compared to today levels.
Marvin Gaye was singing about the state of the planet years before anyone had even heard of global warming...

What has happened?? How did our music become so watered down???

Or do you think i am just an old fart who time has come and gone???

My person thoughts are this.... Music is one of the most powerful ways to convey a message... If you write a newspaper article about a war you might make some people angry... If you write a song about it you WILL make people cry.

TPTB know this... and I believe that there has been an orchestrated effort to dumb down our music... Instead of the political message... instead of love songs... instead fantastic voices... we have the hypnotic robotic droning designed to keep us good consumers who do not question world events.

Or, maybe, I’m just a paranoid old fart!


Be interested to hear your thoughts!!


Peace

[i am at work right now and cant wright much, but i`ll elaborate later with examples etc]

man, the thread is pretencious. not to say anything about redunduncy of this topic in general. most such topics are mostly written by people very far from music. i didnt read the thread yet, but i wanna adress couple things from the opening post. so many holes, inconsistensies and so much general ignorance in the opening post.

first of all, "Slutty skinny supermodel, Metro sexual urban male or Gangster tough guy." comes from Hollywood and has nothing to do with music as such - just part of pop culture.

"The truly great era's, in my opinion, was the 50's, 60's and 70's."

i bet you are very far from being a muscician, aren`t you? you dont know that since those decades instrument playing and music composing evolved a whole bunch. strange you heard of Dream Theater, yet dont know this little fact. compare DT to Beatles for example. the latter is such a simplistic 3 chord pop bandling it`s seems very unfair to DT. the latter being one of the incredibly technical and complex bands to ever exist with fantastic composing skills to boot. it`s besides the fact that you seem to think music is only about vocals and lyrics. speaking of vocals i bet it`s only conventional vocals too. nothing out of the ordinary is allowed.

also majority of what you like is press darlings from simplistic poppy-rock scene of the past. you dont say much of jazz, metal, prog rock or experimental scenes from those decades that basically could wipe the floors clean with what you list. still there are f*cktons of modern bands who could do the same. there`s more to music than lyrics set to 3 chord arrangements with simple strumming. much much more. there are incredible acts today. many of them mainstream even. and there are tons, tons and tons of them right under your nose. the reason you dont notice them is because you arent that interested in music in general and that both of your eyes and ears are tuned to Hollywood. it`s so much easier to call the garbage that Hollywood spews "today`s music" and attack it. also do you judge music on the basis of such concepts as harmonic structures or polyrhythmic complexties? it`s unfair to today`s music to be judged by someone who doesnt know music theory. and it`s not a mere theory, it`s 100 % applicable and it`s the heart of music. it`s akin to trashing modern physics in favor of Newton`s laws for every reason that lies outside science. ok, gotta go elaborate later.

Music, is a personal choice,
Whether it be the type of music you like to listen to, or the type of music you like to make.
The type of music you can readily access and listen to has had the choices limited and selected and in some cases written and produced for you.
It's made and packaged and pumped out on the air waves by the giant cluster groups and the only choice you really have is what level of bad are you going to be entertained by when selecting standard radio.

There are tons of skilled musicians and boat loads of great songs that will never be heard by the masses because 1 person, (normally titled advisor, or consultant) at the corporate headquarters simply says NO.

When you hear the phrase 'music industry', that's what it is, an industry.
Product=Sales=Profit.

As a consumer, you will be flooded with the choices THEY have made for you, it will seem like the only things on the shelf to pick from will be what They have had their hand in selecting, designing, creating, packaging, marketing, and you can bet that all the promotional dollars will go behind "their babies" , even if they are crap.

If the industry was run by artists, (real artists) rather than by marketing profit masters and their friends and families, and if there were more independent radio stations, privately owned, and not these huge clusters, it would be a very different top 40 world.

The good music, the great music, is still out there being made daily and nightly, but it's just not so easily and readily served up for consumption,
and that's all it is, consumption for profit.
Sad too, I know, but then all entertainment is like that.

It's like slices of cheese.
there's 3000 packages of cheese singles 24/ $2 (when you read it, it says processed cheese food stuff)
and there's 3 packages of 100% real buffalo 1/$7.
The signs are huge around the slices, there's a dozen commercials on tv everyday, there's coupons, flyers, sales, a lady handing out samples, buy one get one.
and then there's the buffalo, sitting quietly with its quality somewhere way down the aisle in an out of the way small section with boxes stacked in front of it blocking its already hampered view.
You've got choices, theyre just not promoted the same.

I've never used slices in a lasagna, I probably never will.