The Global Warming "Scam" quickly claiming another victim: Coral Reefs

A number of years ago when I was first learning about the science behind Global Warming (from an actual accredited educational institution mind you, not some right wing blog) I remember being told one of the earliest indicators of ecological stress due to climate change will be seen in Coral reefs - which are highly sensitive to ocean temperatures (which also happens to be the place most of that trapped heat is going first).

Thus "coral bleaching" was predicted to be an important canary in the coal mine for the first impacts of anthropogenic warming, announcing it is here and it is very real. Sadly this phenomena was projected to only get worse and worse in the near future, ultimately killing the coral off for good while decimating a vital component of our aquatic ecosystems.

Then today I happen across this recent article in the New York Times:
Extreme Heat Bleaches Coral, and Threat Is Seen

This year’s extreme heat is putting the world’s coral reefs under such severe stress that scientists fear widespread die-offs, endangering not only the richest ecosystems in the ocean but also fisheries that feed millions of people.

From Thailand to Texas, corals are reacting to the heat stress by bleaching, or shedding their color and going into survival mode. Many have already died, and more are expected to do so in coming months. Computer forecasts of water temperature suggest that corals in the Caribbean may undergo drastic bleaching in the next few weeks.

So it's fascinating to me that while internet message boards are cluttered with the same old hype about hoaxing-this, or hide the decline-that, mother nature herself in fact keeps plugging right along and confirming exactly what all these supposed "fear-mongering" scientists have been saying from the start.

And to top it all off - even though these "scammers" bold predictions have proven remarkably accurate, people still have no qualms casually writing it all off as just part of some mysterious unpredictable "natural" cycle (never mind the part where the facts clearly show it is not).

So this latest news also comes on the heels of a summer that saw unprecedented heat waves kill thousands in Russia, and heavy rains in Pakistan leave an astonishing 20% of the entire country underwater - destroying crops, killing thousands more and leaving over 20 MILLION people injured or homeless. All in an event that went largely unreported by western media, and largely ignored on "deny ignorance" ATS as a result.

It would be interesting to see how most people around here would react to all this if it had been predicted by web-bot or some ancient Mayan prophecy. Their heads would probably be exploding with all the doom-loving euphoria they pretend they don't have. But when boring, make-you-feel-guilty, think-they-know-everything scientists are making the call: it's more fun to use it as an excuse to complain about taxes, and point out your smarter-than-the-next-guy "skepticism" I guess.


Meanwhile the canary's already burning, drowning and bleaching - and this is only supposed to be the very beginning.

And in the 1970s, during the mini-ice age, are you saying that the coral thrived? Did you know that cold snaps kill more people than heat waves?

weather changes - it always has and it always will.....why should I pay my tax dollars to prevent it?

TIRED OF CONTROL FREAKS

I think this is caused by HAARP instead Carbon Dioxide as well the greenhouse gas that makes earth hotter are no other than Water?

reply to post by mc_squared


I dont know anyone that denies climate change..
Its more, how much is man's fault and how do we address it?

Taxing everyone into poverty so the rich can get richer is NOT the answer..
Then you see goons like Gore lobbying for carbon tax while his own electricity bill could power a small town..

Originally posted by Cmajor
reply to post by mc_squared

 

I dont know anyone that denies climate change..
Its more, how much is man's fault and how do we address it?

Taxing everyone into poverty so the rich can get richer is NOT the answer..
Then you see goons like Gore lobbying for carbon tax while his own electricity bill could power a small town..

How about instead of 90% of that trillion dollar stimulus package evaporating into nowhere, they use that 900 Billion to build a real renewable energy infrastructure. It's completely viable technologically, and would be cheaper than fossil fuels if put into mass production. That's just economics. What is lacking? The infrastructure investment. And think of all the jobs!! Alas, no. The industrial production evaporates into funny accounting by the federal bank infrastructure.

Warming has been directly correlative over the last 200 years to the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, which has been put there by us, through industrialization. That's just what happened. It's not hoaxy. If you recall, the papers that called it a hoax not too long ago, were in fact later proven to be a hoax. Big money makes big money off keeping us on fossil fuel.

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
And in the 1970s, during the mini-ice age, are you saying that the coral thrived? Did you know that cold snaps kill more people than heat waves?

weather changes - it always has and it always will.....why should I pay my tax dollars to prevent it?

TIRED OF CONTROL FREAKS

Really - there was a mini ice age in the 1970's now?? That's a new one! I gave you a star for originality

And I left a pre-emptive link in the OP for anyone who wants to come in and derail this thread with the completely irrelevant and all too played out "climate always changes" argument. Obviously you missed it - so let me embed it for you:



And when will just one of you guys ever come to understand that acknowledging the potential reality of anthropogenic global warming does NOT automatically mean you have to support a carbon tax?? Is it seriously that hard?

The fact that you seem completely unwilling/unable to make this distinction speaks volumes about how much more "programmed" YOU are than all us "crazy AGW religous beleevurrs"...

Originally posted by Cmajor
reply to post by mc_squared

 

I dont know anyone that denies climate change..
Its more, how much is man's fault and how do we address it?

Taxing everyone into poverty so the rich can get richer is NOT the answer..
Then you see goons like Gore lobbying for carbon tax while his own electricity bill could power a small town..

You're dead on about the taxing part - which is why we have to all start addressing ways to deal with this real problem without simply getting ripped off in the process. But to do that we have to acknowledge the problem in the first place.

People don't want to do that. They want to sit around in front of their keyboards and ignore it and point out how much more in-the-know they are than you, and then act like that's somehow going to solve all their problems for them.

reply to post by pirhanna


Thank you for reaffirming my faith that there are still some people around here who completely "get it"

reply to post by pirhanna

How about instead of 90% of that trillion dollar stimulus package evaporating into nowhere, they use that 900 Billion to build a real renewable energy infrastructure.

That money is already in the hands of greedy bankers that didnt use it as intended.
ie: to stimulate the economy by loaning money out...

The carbon tax money will end up in the same hands...

Alternative enery is the way to go but most of the good projects get canned or bought out and never seen again..

reply to post by mc_squared


It is very real, and it is taking place slowly but you have to ask, when does it become catastrophic? It is inevitabe!

those "scientists" you refer too only wanted a carbon tax,

if you can explain to me how a tax will help with the SOLAR SYSTEM warming, then i might support it, but i doubt that taxes will keep mars or pluto cool,

it's not global warming, it's solar systam warming.

ask nasa.

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye


Complete, utter, nonsense!

The basis of this argument is that the sun must be causing global warming and in fact, warming throughout the solar system. There are several flaws in this line of thought. Firstly, the characterisation that the whole solar system is warming is erroneous. Around 6 planets or moons out of the more than 100 bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling (Young 2001). Secondly, the theory that a brightening sun is causing global warming falls apart when you consider the sun has shown little to no trend since the 1950s. A variety of independent measurements of solar activity including satellite data, sunspot numbers, UV levels and solar magnetograms all paint a consistent picture. Over the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been moving in opposite directions. That begs the question - what is causing warming on other planets? With the exception of Pluto, climate change on other planets are fairly understood: * Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo. Global dust storms increase the surface albedo by settling brighter dust on dark surfaces. Higher albedo leads to more sunlight being reflected which has a cooling effect. Snapshots of Mars' surface in 1977 and 1999 find that the surface was brighter in 1977 and darker in 1999. However, this doesn't necessarily point to a long term warming trend - the 1977 snapshot was made shortly after a global dust storm while the 1999 snapshot occured before a dust storm. Consequently, there is little empirical evidence that long term global warming on Mars is occuring (Richardson 2007). More on Mars... * Neptune's orbit is 164 years so observations (1950 to present day) span less than a third of a Neptunian year. Climate modelling of Neptune suggests its brightening is a seasonal response (Sromovsky 2003). Eg - Neptune's southern hemisphere is heading into summer. More on Neptune... * Neptune's largest moon, Triton, has warmed since the Voyager space probe visited it in 1989. The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight (Elliot 1998). * Jupiter's storms are fueled by the planet's own internal heat (sunlight is 4% the level of solar energy at Earth). When several storms merge into one large storm (eg - Red Spot Jr), the planet loses its ability to mix heat, causing warming at the equator and cooling at the poles (Marcus 2006). More on Jupiter... * Pluto's warming is not clearly understood. Pluto's orbit is much more elliptical than that of the other planets, and its rotational axis is tipped by a large angle relative to its orbit. Both factors could contribute to drastic seasonal changes. As Pluto's orbit is equivalent to 248 Earth years and observed warming spans only 14 years, it is likely this is a seasonal response (Sromovsky 2003).

Global Warming on other planets DEBUNKED

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye

 

Complete, utter, nonsense!

, the characterisation that the whole solar system is warming is erroneous. Around 6 planets or moons out of the more than 100 bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling (Young 2001).

Global Warming on other planets DEBUNKED

edit on 28-9-2010 by unityemissions because: add quote

maybe erroneous, but still true,

and i didnt say it was the sun,

personaly i think it could be the oort cloud,

they say 6 have been observed to be warming and only ONE (uranus) has been observed to be cool, well 6 vs 1

6 wins




from your source - "•Pluto's warming is not clearly understood. "

none of the solar bodies warming is clearly understood, not even earths warming is clearly understood, anyone who claims to know when no one knows, has an agenda

none of the explanations here or on that source are anywere near satisfactory



btw i am NOT pro fossil fuels, i welcome alternative energy,

we havn't needed fossil fuels since tesla, it's been a lie ever since

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye


That's not what's said, and something that's erroneous can't possibly be true.

False =/= True

I refuse to speak any further with a liar, so let's just say I'll have no sympathy if your kids end up roasting because people like you continue to spew out stupidity like this.

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye

 

That's not what's said, and something that's erroneous can't possibly be true.

False =/= True

I refuse to speak any further with a liar, so let's just say I'll have no sympathy if your kids end up roasting because people like you continue to spew out stupidity like this.

reply to post by unityemissions


no need to be such a rude jerk.

erroneous doesn't always mean wrong,


definition -

er·ro·ne·ous   /əˈroʊniəs, ɛˈroʊ-/ Show Spelled
[uh-roh-nee-uhs, e-roh-] Show IPA

–adjective
1. containing error; mistaken; incorrect; wrong: an erroneous answer.
2. straying from what is moral, decent, proper, etc.


imoral indecent and improper truths are also considered erroneous even though true.

nice to see your such a know it all that you believe only false and truth exists, i happen to recognize there is still much unknown,

did i actualy post something from your source that wasnt from your source? thats what you claim yet even though my post was less then a paragraph you still cant point out whatever it was,

a baseless claim

you call me a liar though i gave you only my opinion. what the HELL could i have lied about? my opinion? suddenly you know me better then i do huh, a new meaning to know it all.

btw i am of the OPINION that i would feel sympathy for a burning child no matter how stupid their parents are, and no matter what had been said or communicated prior,

you actualy allow your opinion of a human being to be the deciding factor in the justification of burning their children to death? you are a horrible person if that is so.

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye

none of the solar bodies warming is clearly understood, not even earths warming is clearly understood, anyone who claims to know when no one knows, has an agenda

none of the explanations here or on that source are anywere near satisfactory

There are plenty of explanations offered in that source that are far FAR better than this:

personaly i think it could be the oort cloud

Well that's great...why don't you submit a paper then on how you personally think it could be the oort cloud, and NASA can get to the bottom of it right away.

In the meantime it is well understood that it's not the Sun, it's not cosmic rays, it's not the Earth's orbit, and there's no other explanations that come even remotely close to explaining what we're seeing the way GHGs do.

The fact that you seem to want to think nobody knows anything about this is only indicative of YOUR ignorance on the subject, not everyone else's ok? Take some time to actually educate yourself on the science first before you go arrogantly announcing other people's "agendas":



Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming

The Discovery of Global Warming

And fresh off the presses, right on cue - here's the latest Climate Crock of the Week video from Peter Sinclair describing yet another biological indicator of rapidly advancing climate change.



See also: Melting Sea Ice Forces Walruses Ashore in Alaska

U.S. government scientists say this massive move to shore by walruses is unusual in the United States. But it has happened at least twice before, in 2007 and 2009. In those years Arctic sea ice also was at or near record low levels.

So I guess walruses are in on the conspiracy too now!

These recent observations coincide with the more highly publicized plight of the polar bear. But that decline is often used as a talking point by lobbyist denier shills who like to cherry-pick the information and convince everyone those evil scientists are just lying to you. Meanwhile a simple look at the actual data tells a different story:

At the 2009 meeting of the IUCN Polar Bear Specialist Group, scientists reported that of the 19 subpopulations* of polar bears:

* 8 are declining.
* 3 are stable.
* 1 is increasing.

By comparison, in 2005:

* 5 were declining.
* 5 were stable.
* 2 were increasing.

*Insufficient data to determine the fate of the other 7 populations

Source

These corporate stooges take the 1 out of 19 that's increasing and go "seeeee everything's fine! it's all LIES! Teh polar bears want yr TAXEZ!!!". It's total nonsense.


Anyway, I don't know why I keep bothering posting this stuff on ATS. I guess just as a pretty serious conspiracy theorist myself I expect better out of fellow conspiracy theorists. I expect them to actually use their brains and think for themselves and see through the bullsh--, instead of just getting sucked right into it like all the other sheep they think they're above.

So if some of you guys wanna convince me of that please post some real information on these topics, not the same old tired cliches, or pointless "personal opinions", or a bunch of cherry picked propaganda you got from some blog sponsored by Exxon.

Quick everyone!
Run to your freezers and dump your ice cube trays into the ocean!



No but really.
Global warming is real.
Whether it's a part of a natural cycle that earth goes through every ____ thousand, million, billion years... I doubt we'll ever know.
That's not important anyway.
Whats important is us trying to find a way to either stop this process, or make it so the change wont kill off as much as it looks like it's going to.

And the only scam about this is the governments taking our money to 'try to stop global warming'.
Do you think they care if we die from horrible heat waves?
I highly doubt it, they're probably thinking of how all those once cold areas will be perfect warm vacation spots when this is all over.
& Carbon tax? Yup, its to help fund those flights to "New Hawaii".

reply to post by mc_squared


nasa did say the oort cloud was extremely high temperature....doesnt take much more thought then that.

you dont like opinions then you shouldnt post on a discussion site,

you are mocking your every target audience! and then say you dont know why you post this, ME NEITHER

you clearly have disdain for anyone who disagrees with this,

all i said was basicaly that i believe the global warming is not entirely carbon,

i did NOT say carbon doesnt do it, i did NOT say global warming is a hoax,

only that carbon tax is a bad idea and i believe it could be something solar system wide,

if i'm gonna get constantly insulted by anyone who supports carbon global warming then i'm disencouraged to even bother discussing this, on a discussion site!!!!


bug off if you dont like it find a website that doesnt allow discussion!


i cherish the image of you cringing last year during 'climategate'

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye



I have no problem with informed opinions.

I do have a problem with every one of these discussions being hijacked by someone who brings nothing but their personal uninformed conjecture to the table, but arrogantly trumpets it around like it's some obvious fact or something.

This is exactly what you just did by trying to enlighten the rest of us on how much all the scientists behind global warming apparently just want a carbon tax, and how it's some hidden fact that warming is happening throughout the solar system.

The first statement is nothing but pointless speculative nonsense on your part - and doesn't even make a lick of sense considering the science behind global warming is over a hundred years old. Tell me - what's Svante Arrhenius or GS Callendar's plot in this big conspiracy? They were both instrumental in bringing global warming to the attention of mainstream science. So how much of a cut is Al Gore gonna give them considering they've both been dead for over 50 years?

As for the second statement...let's see, where do I even start...

You think 6 out of 180-something planetary bodies showing some vague traces of warming is good enough to conclude the entire solar system is the main culprit. OK fair enough, but considering those 6 warmings seem to have perfectly mundane explanations already, and there's no observed phenomenon known that can explain why they would all warm up together anyway - then please provide one. Because I would honestly love to hear how a network of hypothetical icy comets - orbiting a light year away from the Sun - are somehow causing coral reefs to bleach and walruses to change their travel plans on Earth.

But here's the thing: if you want your "opinion" on this to be respected - then add a little more to the discussion next time than "they say", or "ask nasa". Give some details, provide a link - back up your words with something that shows you did your homework instead of just sponging up another rumour on the internet and regurgitating it out for the rest of us. If you do this maybe you'll find other people won't get so short with you.

Because this is my problem.

It has nothing to do with people disagreeing with what I have to say. It has to do with the fact the topic of Global Warming is absolutely LITTERED with all these little myths and deliberate lies put out by corporate hacks trying to serve their agenda - and instead of stopping them in their tracks and calling them out for what they are, these lies are constantly being propagated around the internet like they're some obvious fact. This happens because a bunch of so-called conspiracy theorists of all people spread them around like wildfire, instead of ever bothering to think critically about them first or question their sources.

The climategate thing is just another perfect example of this. You realize there have now been THREE seperate official investigations that ALL cleared the scientists of any wrong doing? And if you think this is just some convenient white wash then how about you try this - use your own critical thinking skills.

You yourself have admitted as much in this thread that the Earth is definitely warming, be it part of a bigger solar cycle or whatever. All the biological evidence presented here shows that the Earth is warming, and nobody seems to be arguing that part. All of our temperature records, both ground based and satellite have shown a definitive upward trend for the last 40 or so years. Agreed?

So what is this "decline" then that the scientists we're supposedly hiding?? Is it ALL a lie - or is it maybe that the rumors you read about climategate were the real propaganda - because it was in fact nothing more than out-of-context soundbites blown out of proportion by right wing media sources trying to do all their buddies in the oil industry some solid PR favors?

"Climategate" exposed: Conservative media distort stolen emails in latest attack on global warming consensus

I'm not saying you have to agree with that. But just do some research and investigate the WHOLE story and then decide for yourself. Because if all you're doing is automatically sucking up every "fact" you read on the internet when it supports your pre-dispositions - you leave yourself ripe for the picking for the very people you are fighting against.


So when I said I don't know why I still post this stuff please note I also immediately answered my own question. I said because:

I expect better out of fellow conspiracy theorists. I expect them to actually use their brains and think for themselves and see through the bullsh--, instead of just getting sucked right into it like all the other sheep they think they're above.

That's all.