The 80-year-old victim of thugs' fatal trap: 'Bullied' woman dies after falling into manhole

reply to post by NonKonphormist


My dad told me that before urban sprawl got here that it was all small towns and villages around here. Inter town rivalry was rife. They used to "arrange" fights and meet up to knock ten bells out of each other.. In a place called "the lost city" (priory road, Dudley) even the women would come out of their houses to beat you up if you were a stranger walking down their "turf"... It has always been rougher than a badgers arse around here! However it has got worse no matter what people say. That I put down to liberal government, kids play areas taken away, no discapline, ease of divorce, abdication of responsability, low standards of education, the sexualisation of society and massive immigration.
The media do stir things up and create bogey men, but a fear faced, as a collecive community will dispell it all.. I think we are at a tipping point in this country.. We either act together to exorsize this fear demon, or it will destroy whats left of our country..

reply to post by stumason

Well said Stu up:, I live in a culdesac and have never had any problem,s with unruly Brats, It boils down to a good community spirit with everyone looking out for each others property and family, Indeed we had an "undesirable" girl walk into a pensioners bungalow and pinch her ciggys and mobile phone, Once word got out the phone was returned very quickly and said girl told not to come back (this was the women), So community spirit still lives on in this part of the world ...

reply to post by catwhoknows


Wow, these days I am a liberal and progressive, but I'd be the last person to say it is the government's responsibility to involve youth in some sort of activity. What about the role of parents? We need to hold parents accountable -- no excuses like the poor mother who says she can't control her son. Too darned bad, then maybe she should not have indulged him and/or neglected him as a toddler and little boy. It is time also to let schools bring back discipline and to put a kabosh on BS liability lawsuits that keep other adults from taking control of situations. Society needs also to adopt a zero tolerance policy for these inhumane beasts.

None of this would have happened of Granny was packing heat.

I agree with much that has been said here but wanted to add that seniors often time do not report what is happening to them in fear of loosing their independence. I was wondering about her family, perhaps she told one of them what was going on and they could have done something before this tragedy happened to her. Please check in on your senior neighbors and family members, make sure everything is alright with them, if not report it to the authorities immediately!

Originally posted by Segador
None of this would have happened of Granny was packing heat.

I am confused by all the gun talk. How would a gun have prevented this? Do all guns come with removed manhole cover detectors now?

reply to post by Yissachar1

No this isn't due to a liberal government.

I've seen blogs on ATS where people got up in arms over the possibility of our youth performing free community service instead of sitting around playing violent shoot em up video games.

Well, in my opinion I think our youth should have to perform 4-8 hours of community service each month while in high school.

I donated 2 hours a week from 16-18 as a candy striper and have donated time to the ASPCA, Habitat for Humanity, food distribution for the homeless and various other charities.

The media and parents have promoted a mindset.................service to self vs. service to others. No payback, no agenda.

But people would protest.

If the parents can't or won't raise their children to be responsible citizens, maybe the government should step in and promote being a good citizen awareness program.

We protest school uniforms because it would infringe against our youth’s freedoms, but in actuality it which would stop young girls from dressing like sluts and young men dressing like gansters.

We protest mandatory community service, like helping to prepare and serve meals to our homeless, veterans and the elderly, picking up the litter on our many streets, roads, parks and all over, helping at the ASPCA.

We protest the very things that should be promoted not protested.

We have allowed Hollywood, the media and Game box to promote a lazy, me first, service to self generation, like the pelicans in the movie, "Finding Nemo", me, me, me, me.

It's not cool to be kind, thoughtful and service to others.

It's due to a society that has allowed its youth to embrace a violent, urban, ghetto mentality.

The media has made it cute to be a spoiled princess like Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton or "one of Hollywood's bad boys". Rarely do they promote the people that are kind, generous and service to others.

And get this.............if mankind does not change his paradigm we are going to eventually destroy most of humanity.

Mindset......................this is not the fault of "government" it's the fault of lifestyle promoted by Hollywood. The indoctrination that it is cool to be self-centered and selfish.

Obama tried to promote service to community and there must have been 1,000 replies here on ATS that protested.

No, not the government...........parents protesting the "rights" for their youth to degenerate into egotistical, greedy, self-centered morons.

Hollywood’s many movies that have an underlying message to dumb down and mean up the up coming generation…………it’s called brainwashing.

It is a conspiracy, from breaking down and apart the family unit to promoting a me first screw you attitude.

No, a "liberal" govenment is not the root cause of this sad incident, it's the selfish and mean attitude that has been promoted by our movies, sitcoms, music and games.

And it has become a world wide problem not just in Britian and America but globally.

reply to post by Curiousisall


No, apparently if 80 year old women carry guns around with them then all teenagers become very well behaved and respectful, never drink or take drugs, there's no graffiti, no litter, no crime,. and everyone lives in peace.

Which is why in America the sort of thugs who terrorised the lady in the OP drive around shooting at each other with machine guns

reply to post by ofhumandescent


What an excellent post

We have created a society that now protests in the strongest terms to prevent the solutions to the problems that we complain afflict our society. Are we suicidal? Stupid? Or just deserving of all we get?

reply to post by Essan


I have to concur, if kids like this got access to guns as they no doubt would if we had the right to bear arms like America, then kids killing kids would esculate beyond our capacity to control. In London and Birmingham for instance, kids already walk around tooled up with knives and there have been many instances of them using these weapons against each other and adults.

We do not want the same happen here as what has happened in America many times with a few social outcasts shooting up their schools with assault rifles..

Grandma having a gun may have turned the tide but a scared person with a gun may have killed these kids.

As far is these kids in this case are concerned, they should be put away with manslaughter at the least.

Bring back the stocks for the rest!

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
We have allowed Hollywood, the media and Game box to promote a lazy, me first, service to self generation, like the pelicans in the movie, "Finding Nemo", me, me, me, me.

Those were sea gulls, the pelican was very helpful, and did not just think of himself. Being a bird that eats fish, he resisted the urge he must have had to eat Nemo's dad, and instead helped him find his son. Let's give credit where it's due.

On topic, once again the debate goes to guns, and whether they prevent crime. A gun would not have prevented this particular incident, since it was a trap that was set for the lady. HOWEVER, guns can and do prevent other incidents from occurring, such as home invasions, lone gunman rampages, etc.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Read my post, i do not disagree at all.

I put down to liberal government, kids play areas taken away, no discapline, ease of divorce, abdication of responsability, low standards of education, the sexualisation of society and massive immigration. responsability, low standards of education, the sexualisation of society and massive immigration. The media do stir things up and create bogey men, but a fear faced, as a collecive community will dispell it all.. I think we are at a tipping point n this country.. We either act together to exorsize this fear demon, or it will destroy whats left of our country.

We as a democratic society ARE the government, and what we have done is abdicate responsbility.. And now
as a collective we must accept our fault then do something about it

reply to post by 27jd


I just read about a home invasion and I believe a lone gunman just took an entire television channel hostage recently. I am curious if you have any stats on these types of crimes in the US vs the UK? I mean, the US has guns but the two very items you say guns would prevent still happen, don't they?

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I have to concur, if kids like this got access to guns as they no doubt would if we had the right to bear arms like America, then kids killing kids would esculate beyond our capacity to control. In London and Birmingham for instance, kids already walk around tooled up with knives and there have been many instances of them using these weapons against each other and adults.

There are pros and cons to both sides, as usual, but nobody will ever admit that the other side has good points. Guns are still readily available in countries with bans for those who really want them. And like you said, people are being stabbed instead of shot, the thing is knives take physical power, so older folks in general are helpless to defend themselves against criminals even if they wanted to. Guns even the playing field a bit more and here in the states, if a criminal wants to break into your home, kill you and your family, or whatever, they have to take into consideration that they may end up being killed.

reply to post by Curiousisall


It's hard to say how things would be here without the right to bear, but, the genie is out of the bottle here regardless.

reply to post by 27jd


Sigh.

Let's try this again.

HOWEVER, guns can and do prevent other incidents from occurring, such as home invasions, lone gunman rampages, etc.

The US has guns as well as home invasions and lone gunman rampages so do you have ANY KIND OF EVIDENCE TO BACK UP WHAT YOU JUST SAID?

Can you provide any stats that show we have any less of such crimes do to gun ownership or is it just something you made up as you were typing because it sounded good?

Am I typing in braille?

what has england ever done about poverty and thus criminality?
round everybody up and ship them off to australia,
pack them into coffin ships and drop them off in canada...
and now with a new batch of squalor looking for a dump site?
maybe this time you'll have to square off and fix something.
i'll thank my lucky stars my people got packed out in 1850.
we only visit when you have people to kill. usually germans.
muslims too. always saving britains bacon from the fire eh?
but then you are so morally above guns..still with the
appeasement mentality it would seem.
you wouldnt like american society
and i certainly couldnt abide living in yours.
good there's an ocean between us.
i'm 56, crippled up,live in a mexican hood.
wouldnt feel right without a weapon around.
machetes are great. tomahawk. pistol etc..
i like a sword cane too. double barrel shotgun.
if granny had the means to defend herself and her property-
then she wouldnt have fallen prey to these savages is the point.
and if everybody had that right -
then you wouldnt have roving packs.
the pack would get thinned out.
or continue to wring your hands,
look for a way to get by without any confrontation..
let the police handle it.. etc..

Idea.

Each and every one of those kids should be hunted down and imprisoned. While in jail, they should have their own feet repeatedly broken. This continues, for each one of them, until they've each died of a blood clot themselves.

The entire thing should be televised live on every channel, with the message "This is what all you other worthless pieces of .... are going to get if you don't knock it off."

Originally posted by Curiousisall
The US has guns as well as home invasions and lone gunman rampages so do you have ANY KIND OF EVIDENCE TO BACK UP WHAT YOU JUST SAID?

WHEN DID I EVER SAY THE U.S. DOESN'T HAVE THOSE THINGS? I was saying that it gives good, law abiding citizens the opportunity to defend themselves against those things, instead of just grabbing their ankles and hoping the police somehow get there in time to rescue them.

Can you provide any stats that show we have any less of such crimes do to gun ownership or is it just something you made up as you were typing because it sounded good?

I don't need to. You have the same tools available to you as I. Look it up, look up incidents where armed citizens thwarted crimes. As I said before, the genie is out of the bottle here. I'm not saying you guys need to adopt the right to bear arms, that's none of my concern. As the above poster stated, we got out of there, and now we make our own rules.

reply to post by Curiousisall

lots of personal experiences, just tune into phoenix news..
blog del narco is a view of the border wars i'm smack in the middle of.
my grandad was a WWI vet and became mayor of our village.
i guarantee you on the opening day of deer season some guys got taken care of .
your relationship with the police or courts must be terribly askew..
this is what i'm gathering anyway..
they cant be charged as adults / you cant lay a hand on them etc...
and bunnies like you hop around getting in the way..the "innocent bystander"
you would be horrified if we were to form a posse, track them down,
and throw them down a hole.. maybe we need to send you ( drumroll)
"the nations toughest sheriff- Joe Arpiao!-..(please , i'll pay for his ticket..)
he'll form a posse of old folks and they'll throw down on any yob mob you got.
heres a stat- the usa has more people in prison than china with 5 times the population.
prison contract labor is becoming big business. go to war or prison. thats your career choice.
stats? if you need a weather report stick you head out in the world hunny bunny.
you need to find out how the wind blows.