A question to my friends (and enemies) on the right

For starters, I don't consider myself either left or right, and regardless of flak I'm going to get I think that I sympathize a lot with what Lou Dobbs is saying at times, which is pragmatic populism -- closing the borders, anti-immigration, and protectionism in foreign trade -- all of that hardly makes me a lefty. And oh yeah, trim foreign aid. We have enough to handle at home.

Now, I have 2 problems trying to understand the right -- one is their take on Obama (who I've come to mildly dislike myself). Some of you are saying he's in the pocket of corporate interest and all he does are bailouts. Others say that he's a hardcore socialist and wants to undermine corporations at all costs. Now, which one is it? Because I simply fail to grasp a consistent view of Obama from the right, except for one component you guys agree upon, which is pure hatred. I almost respect that but it's a pretty thin basis to move the country forward, don't you think?

Another problem I have is declaration that free markets will take care of everything, including repairing the roads in my state and sending a space probe to study some comet in the Solar system. I just don't see that happening. We are less regulated than our counterparts in Europe and elsewhere and its clear as daylight that we are failing behind in matter of infrastructure, education and oftentimes in quality of life. If you are trying to sell me and other members of the public LESS regulation and LESS taxes, can you please explain how more of a wrong thing will move us forward.

Finally, in my thread on China I'm worrying about an autocratic regime making great strides and making us obsolete. How do you think we get out of this?

At risk of repeating myself, I state that the Long Island Railroad sucks. Where the hell are the free markets to fix that?

Obama is a Cactus.

1 out of 5 Americans believe Obama is a Cactus.
Forget the other things you heard he is.

Obama is a Cactus.

Originally posted by Oozii
Obama is a Cactus.

Thanks for your insight! It really addresses the question in this thread. Nice to see an intelligent person with excellent reading comprehension skills, on ATS.

reply to post by buddhasystem


It's more than evident that the right can't make up their minds what to policies support. The only clear message they have is their hatred for Obama and every time he takes a position on anything, the right goes in the opposite direction even if it means abandoning their longstanding position on the issue.

Don't you see, if Obama chooses Charmin, the right chooses Northern, it's that simple. It's not his policies that they oppose, it's him!

reply to post by buddhasystem


Oh you are very welcome. And excuse but I forgot to give you a source!

Here you go! And don't forget Smile

Originally posted by Flatfish
Don't you see, if Obama chooses Charmin, the right chooses Northern, it's that simple. It's not his policies that they oppose, it's him!

You really hit the nail on the head here. On the issue of Northern vs Charmin, I'm often split myself! Now I understand the right a bit better.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I understand what you are saying, I do. The Government should be like a Sheep Dog, looking out for Wolfs, except we now have Wolfs, eating the Sheep because the dog fell asleep.... The Government needs to get leaner, Free Market isn’t the answer to everything, sometimes the Feds do need to through laws out there. I have a problem with no Term Limits on Congress. Things need to change, in Washington DC, Not Just Obama, but the Culture we have allowed them to create. Medicare and Social Security are broke or will be broke, Why not Allow younger employee's to be able to invest their SSI into TSP and there Medicare deductions into an Health Savings account that they can’t touch until there 65.

Well i guess im a right winger. I will try and answer your questions. What a TRUE conservative republican believes that no form of government should help bail out a company that goes under no mater how big they are. with that said if a big company falls it will NOT make the economy crash no matter how big it is. There are thousands of smaller company that would fill the void and will gain a increase in market share. Bailing out the company was the wrong thing to do. They made the risky bets and lost. they most fall for it!

Taxes. Obama MUST extend the bush tax cuts! In my tax bracket allow ($60,000) i will see $175 less a month and as it is now after all my bills i have about $300+ for food, gas, and entertainment. I know alot more people are worse off them me. if these taxes hit say hello to the double dip.

Obama MUST cut federal spending! The government is way to big and must be run more efficient! no more paying 20% more salaries them privet workers, no more pensions, government works must learn to save like the rest of us.

Obama MUST be more business! I don’t care what you say but these capital gains taxes are killing us! My father owns a large company (that i work for and look at the balance sheets) and if we had alot more of that money that is taken from us in taxes we would be able to open up more branches and higher more people but right now we cant afford to do that. tax cuts really do expand business! they really do! im witness to it. if we had that money we get taxed we would invest more into the company and have more employees. that’s a fact!

The right wants to turn back the clock and return to an imagined earlier utopia. They want to go back at least to President Bush, but I think the majority have a fantasy of what life was like under Reagan and want to return to that period. The glory days before Bill Clinton took office. I was alive when President Reagan was in power and it was not paradise, but people can dream I guess.

The second thing they want is a return to an imaginary time when all Americans were "brave, courageous and bold" and the morals of the country hadn't gone all to hell. What time that ever was I don't know, but the fantasy is there. They want what they fondly remember as their golden childhood. A warm and nurturing stay-at-home Mom and a strong and authoritative father who had all the answers. Life's little problems were minor and obstacles easily overcome.

What they want now is a strong, authoritarian but highly ethical strong man to rule the country. A big daddy to all upright conservatives. They say they want democracy but they are really afraid of mob rule.

Oh yes, also they want somebody who worships wealth and consumerism and sees rich people as divinely blessed. Sort of a return to the early Calvinism of some of the first settlers of America, where wealth was a sign that one was chosen by God to be the elect in heaven and on earth.

Those are four things I can identify. I have generalized outrageously but I hope I have summarized some points fairly concisely.

reply to post by Oozii


The only original scources for that are from satire news websites. I dont know why all the internet seems to be believing it

I think the reason the right is automatically against everything Obama tries to do is so he won't accomplish anything and then they can say, "Look see? He made no change, no help, no hope". I posted earlier that Bush took our rights away with the patriot act. When the democrats took control they didn't repeal the act or restore our rights so vote republican. That will show the democrats. Putting the republicans back in control is about as stupid an idea as I ever heard. BTW if anyone doesn't know, look, if you are a tea partier, independent, whatever. I'll bet they want you to vote for republicans.

reply to post by Sestias


One you can stop generalizing. Two you give all the bad things about the republicans. What about the demarcates? There not peaches ether! Why are you for more taxes? Why do you want more of your money taken from you and spend by other that have no checks or balances. Why give it to a government entity that does not even have its own internal audit system? The government is the big nasty corporate entity you all despise but you embrace it and welcome it why? What happen to lifting yourself up by your own shirt?

What one good thing has the government done for me beside pillage me of my money. Yes I do believe in some taxes for firefighters, police, emergency personnel, military, and roads but that’s it! What good has the government done for you lately besides bankrupt your Social Security piggy bank that you pay 8% into every year and you will not see a dime of? I would rather have that money to save for myself! I know what to do with it better then the government knows.

Why do you love the government so much demarcates?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Now, I have 2 problems trying to understand the right -- one is their take on Obama (who I've come to mildly dislike myself). Some of you are saying he's in the pocket of corporate interest and all he does are bailouts. Others say that he's a hardcore socialist and wants to undermine corporations at all costs. Now, which one is it?

Both!
Firstly see this please
Monsanto Lobbying Federal Govt.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And there's also cronyism, Obama put a Monstanto Exec as the food safety czar, and a Monsanto exec as a FDA Commissioner. So we the people have basically no say in anything!

And then look at this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So now food producers are having little say as well, also a symptom of cronyism.

Can you deny this?

Then there's GM, govt. nationalizing one of the biggest auto-makers or even smallest one for that matter is just plain wrong.

Too big to fail is just a euphemism for "friends in high places".

Why does it have to be just one? Obama has multiple layers of corruption, that's all.

Now if You will also look at this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Coast guard wouldn't even allow reporters to see much of the spill, I think BP was putting something in Obama's pockets.

Still confused?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Because I simply fail to grasp a consistent view of Obama from the right, except for one component you guys agree upon, which is pure hatred.

I do not hate Obama, i've never met him.
For all I know he's just an optical illusion.

His actions though......

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I almost respect that but it's a pretty thin basis to move the country forward, don't you think?

Im pretty sure that moving the country foward is the best way to move the country foward.
Corruption, cronyism and nationalisation is the not way to progress.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Another problem I have is declaration that free markets will take care of everything, including repairing the roads in my state

Which one would have more accountability and deliver on a deadline, the govt. or a contractor?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
We are less regulated than our counterparts in Europe

Europe also has less fluoride in their water
My point is they are completely different
Their boss is also not Israel

Originally posted by buddhasystem
and elsewhere and its clear as daylight that we are failing behind in matter of infrastructure, education and oftentimes in quality of life. If you are trying to sell me and other members of the public LESS regulation and LESS taxes, can you please explain how more of a wrong thing will move us forward.

We need more regulation OF GOVT., not of people.
You can't say how will more of the bad we have now will move us foward.
This is not a free market, this is a lobbyist-controlled market if anything.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
At risk of repeating myself, I state that the Long Island Railroad sucks. Where the hell are the free markets to fix that?

That doesn't even make any sense

The Right has displayed greater allegiance to their own political party than they do to the people of the United States. This is how they can oppose all things from the Left. They only want power. If healthcare is to be reformed, they will make sure it is on their watch. They will obstruct all progress from the Left, and then accuse the Left of not getting anything done.

Conversely I don't recall Bush ever opening dialogue to Democrats in the same way Obama has. Bush never would single handedly take on a room full of democrats for open televised discussion. I'm not Left or Right... I'm independent. As independent, this difference between the two parties leads me to think the Left is a little more traditional American politics, while the Right has become more extremist and spin-based.

The Right has become like a non-secret society where top allegiance is to the party. They are not for the people, they are for themselves, and for their own power only.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Well i guess im a right winger. I will try and answer your questions. What a TRUE conservative republican believes that no form of government should help bail out a company that goes under no mater how big they are.

I am a "liberal" and I am with you there...didn't like when Pres. Bush did it, didn't like it when Pres. Obama did it.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Taxes. Obama MUST extend the bush tax cuts! In my tax bracket allow ($60,000) i will see $175 less a month and as it is now after all my bills i have about $300+ for food, gas, and entertainment. I know alot more people are worse off them me. if these taxes hit say hello to the double dip.

He is extending the Bush tax cuts...just not for those making over 250k...which isn't you.

So I am with you there too, albiet confused what your beef is?

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Obama MUST cut federal spending! The government is way to big and must be run more efficient! no more paying 20% more salaries them privet workers, no more pensions, government works must learn to save like the rest of us.

Agreed...where to cut is where we likely differ.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Obama MUST be more business! I don’t care what you say but these capital gains taxes are killing us! My father owns a large company (that i work for and look at the balance sheets) and if we had alot more of that money that is taken from us in taxes we would be able to open up more branches and higher more people but right now we cant afford to do that. tax cuts really do expand business! they really do! im witness to it. if we had that money we get taxed we would invest more into the company and have more employees. that’s a fact!

Can we distinguish between capital gains for businesses and private investors? Because I don't mind the Gov. taking a cut of the winnings for the Wall Street Jockeys that nearly brought down the economy...they certainly had thier hands out when their gamble failed and made out ok.

One problem is you are treating a collection of around 50% of America's population as a monolithic entity. That there are contradictions between what you hear from different people in that group should come as no surprise.

Originally posted by maybereal11
Can we distinguish between capital gains for businesses and private investors? Because I don't mind the Gov. taking a cut of the winnings for the Wall Street Jockeys that nearly brought down the economy...they certainly had their hands out when their gamble failed and made out ok.

Capital gains have nothing to do with what "Wall Street Jockeys" did to all of us, just to be fair here. I must be honest I forget whether gains on derivatives products are taxes same way as stocks. May be, may be not. Anyhow, it's irrelevant.

What is relevant is that by lack of government intervention, companies like AIG, which ultimately hold 80% of house insurances in the country (like fire insurance which you must have) were allowed to invest our premiums in what turned out to be a gamble. I'm not a math genius but I always had a feeling that securitized debt is in many cases impossible to price because the risk depends more on catastrophic events than in many other cases of securities. I asked a NYU professor once as to how they calibrate models and got a shrug. Sadly, I was right. Markets went kaput and the long domino chain all crashed.

Case in point, that's what we need government intervention for -- to prevent "jockeys" from gambling with our legitimate savings, under the guise of financial "innovation". If it were up to me, I would limit derivatives to vanilla options on stocks. These are the least weird kind.

Originally posted by Sestias
The right wants to turn back the clock and return to an imagined earlier utopia. They want to go back at least to President Bush, but I think the majority have a fantasy of what life was like under Reagan and want to return to that period. The glory days before Bill Clinton took office. I was alive when President Reagan was in power and it was not paradise, but people can dream I guess.

If you are not a member of the "right", do not presume to speak for them. Seems like - as a member of the "left", you've got plenty of explaining to do just for what's happened under your watch.

People were happier with life under Reagan that they are under obama. In fact, people were happier than they are now under several presidents - Republican and Democrat. Deal with it.

Here's your proof:

source

Originally posted by buddhasystem
For starters, I don't consider myself either left or right, and regardless of flak I'm going to get I think that I sympathize a lot with what Lou Dobbs is saying at times, which is pragmatic populism -- closing the borders, anti-immigration, and protectionism in foreign trade -- all of that hardly makes me a lefty. And oh yeah, trim foreign aid. We have enough to handle at home.

Protectionist foreign trade would ruin us. There is not a single economist alive, Austrian, neo-classical, or Keynesian that thinks a trade war is a good idea. Austrians (libertarians) are split on immigration. I'm against it in-so-far as we currently have a welfare state. Once the State is gone, then I'm all for open borders.

Now, I have 2 problems trying to understand the right -- one is their take on Obama (who I've come to mildly dislike myself). Some of you are saying he's in the pocket of corporate interest and all he does are bailouts. Others say that he's a hardcore socialist and wants to undermine corporations at all costs. Now, which one is it?

Fascists do both.

They buy up votes by providing crumbs to the plebs while simultaneously bailing out and cartelizing their corporate sponsors.

Because I simply fail to grasp a consistent view of Obama from the right, except for one component you guys agree upon, which is pure hatred. I almost respect that but it's a pretty thin basis to move the country forward, don't you think?

The right is filled with neo-con warmongers who want unlimited war and "defense" spending while simultaneously calling for reductions in spending. They are logically irrational and thus are not worth arguing with.

Another problem I have is declaration that free markets will take care of everything, including repairing the roads in my state and sending a space probe to study some comet in the Solar system. I just don't see that happening.

If you are in favor of cutting foreign aid, then how could you be in favor of wasting epic amounts of money on space probes that benefit no one while we have 40 million people on food stamps here at home? Free markets do solve everything. They would get rid of the waste and reprioritize our savings toward productive things. Things like private highways, which are ten thousand times superior to any government run cluster f***.

We are less regulated than our counterparts in Europe and elsewhere and its clear as daylight that we are failing behind in matter of infrastructure, education and oftentimes in quality of life. If you are trying to sell me and other members of the public LESS regulation and LESS taxes, can you please explain how more of a wrong thing will move us forward.

We are falling behind because our government spends a trillion times more than they do. The other countries are not acting as policemen of the world. They do not have a global empire to manage or pay for. Speaking of quality of life, ours is about to take a nose dive due to the excessive spending and outrageous largess of government.

Finally, in my thread on China I'm worrying about an autocratic regime making great strides and making us obsolete. How do you think we get out of this?

At risk of repeating myself, I state that the Long Island Railroad sucks. Where the hell are the free markets to fix that?

Autocratic regimes always fail in the end.

There is no need to concern ourselves with other countries who will inevitably suffer the same fate.

i apologize for coming here and not answering your question but there is no such thing as 'left' or 'right'

that's probably why you consider yourself not left or right!

the american political system is simplified in such a manner so as to make sure there are only TWO choices in the american minds to vote on, and any other voters who vote for other candidates will be in such minority that their votes wasted.

this allows the men that 'run the show behind the curtains' a much much easier system of getting their inside man into office, it's just that simple. also they are used in media and news to divide any unified social force that could impede on the system of control that already exists.

the idea is to simply brainwash the masses into individually choosing the 'left' or the 'right' philosophies. this division makes sure that "the people" cannot come together for ANY reason to question their government.

i would also like to say that anyone you might think embodies the philosophies or ideas of the 'left' or 'right' might is either brainwashed by the system to be that way, or they simply beleived whatever their 'favorite' politician had to say about something and decided to be part of that party

there is no way that ANY absolute in those terms could work out for a country, just like you have to breathe in and breathe out to exist, if you tried to just to one not the other - you would die. Not that the party system is at all real, but just that if it was it would not work hahaha

again, i apologize for not answering your question, however, it might be enlightening when the whole of america discontinues the use of false terms such as 'left' or 'right' wing politics