You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

reply to post by Bunken Drum


Yea how about this. Rather than bother with you, I'll just put you on block. That way this thread becomes 99.9% less retarded. Toodles.

When you feel like talking on topics relevant, I'll maybe unblock you.

reply to post by Gorman91(I'm going to extend the metaphor a little in the hope that a) you will understand & b) it'll be more interesting to our audience.)
[Scene 233 - wide shot - cont music "Killing In The Name Of" RATM. Cue SFX: shouting & swearing]
Cpl. Compassion: Sir! Sir! He wont come quietly!
Lt. Pragmatist: Sergeant, you heard BDsego, right? [Sgt. nods] Take care of it then. Oh, & I dont want to see anything about this in any reports, right?
Sgt. Action: No problem, sir. [Produces handgrenade & exits stage left with grim expression]
[Cut to close 2 shot - cue SFX: explosion]
Cpl. Compassion: [Winces]
Lt. Pragmatist: [Sighs]
[End Scene]

So either get back on topic, or piss off. because pretty much, you've failed to answer the most simple questions

Please quote any questions you believe I've not addressed & I'll respond in the simplest terms I can, so that even you cannot fail to understand, but, more importantly, cannot wriggle out from under the implications thereof.

reply to post by ofhumandescent
You are incorrect. I have been circumcised myself since right after birth. (during the typical time for the procedure). I have no problem with it and Even now as an adult I prefer the way it Looks compared to the look of an unmodified member.

I wouldn't categorize it as mutilation either. Mutilation is to deprive the limb of essential parts or to disfigure by irreparable damage.

I as someone who has had this done do not at all feel this is a suitable description.

It isn't at all the same as what is happening to the girls in Africa or Iraq even.

reply to post by KoinMagus


read the first 5-10 pages of this thread and you'll see you're logic & sentiments expressed 20 times overs and half proven faulty and half accepted as truth....as follows...

you cannot possibly ever know what you prefer, unless you have experienced both.

and the general consensus is that it is not comparable to female circumcision in a non clinical environment...
it is not mutilation in that it is a medical procedure...but, looking at it through the eyes of a child...honestly...

is cutting of parts of another human being without their consent mutilation?

...yes, oh most fckn definitely.

-B.M

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

Yea how about this. Rather than bother with you, I'll just put you on block. That way this thread becomes 99.9% less retarded. Toodles.

[Scene 235 - wide shot -
cont music "Killing In The Name Of" RATM - cue SFX: tortured groaning]
Cpl. Compassion: Sir! Sir! He's badly wounded! I dont think we can stabilise him here to get him back to HQ alive!
Sgt. Action: [Shrugs]
Lt. Pragmatist: Well, we did what we could. He was warned &, if you send a man with no foreskin to a sex contest, that's as daft as sending a 1 legged man to an arse-kicking contest & even dafter than sending an idiot to a debate.
[End Scene]

When you feel like talking on topics relevant, I'll maybe unblock you.

How will you know what I'm saying if you have me on ignore? Only by the 2nd hand bits others choose to quote. Er... I feel another metaphor coming on... but I'll leave it to your much vaunted imagination

reply to post by Bunken Drum


lol, leave him alone BD... poor guy... he's gone and blocked you now!

-B.M

P.S) most of the posts I've read of yours in this thread have been outstanding defending the truth in the face of many takes guts & when I see others doing it, Kailassa & several others included in this also, it makes me proud/happy to be part of this whole 'thing'... also I had no idea I could piss in my boots and prevent footrot awesome.

reply to post by Gorman91[Scene 249 - over shoulder close 3 shot - cue music: "Barber's Adagio For Strings" William Orbit - cue SFX: angry pleading vs plaintive denial argument]
Cpl. Compassion: Sir! Sir! We've found another one. We should try to take him alive!
[Cut to reverse]
Lt. Pragmatist: What do you reckon, Sergeant?
[Cut to wide shot]
Sgt. Action: I dunno, we'd be putting the lads at risk. Cruelty could slot him with 1 shot. No-one'll ever know...
Lt. Pragmatist: Yeah, they're not listening are they? [Cpl. & Sgt. shake heads regretfully] Ok, get it done quickly.
[Cut to close 2 shot - cont music & SFX]
Sgt. Action: Cruelty, you're on!
Pvt. Cruelty: [Puts down cup of tea] I thought you'd never ask!
[Cut to close-up of target with sniper's crosshairs on forehead - cue SFX: gunshot]
[End Scene]

I don't give a damn about your girlfriend or life with her or sexual lust.

If you didn't give a damn, you'd not have mentioned any of it. You so do give far more than 1 damn...
Remember the lyric "Dontcha wish your girlfriend was hot like me?" The 1st time I heard it was with the video on the tv in the pub. I had to laugh, b/c I regularly play with people that dont need so much make-up to look hotter IRL or on camera. However, by their reactions, I could tell that most of the blokes in there got the message: they would've dearly loved to get with her.
In contrast, b/c of my work, there's the slimmest possibility that I might. It wouldn't be the 1st time I've needed a new job b/c the management team dont want to risk the goose that lays the golden egg being associated with me in MSM. This is b/c having a foreskin allowed me to develope an interest in the subtleties of sex & then sexuality. Therefore, by applying my (relevant) IQ to these subjects, despite being what we Brits call "a bit of a minger", I can adjust my body language to suit requirements.

...i was supposed to be hanging curtains - but - reading these 30 pages was a lot more fun... oh, yeah, uh, educational too, lol...

...who wouldve thought that so many males could go and on about their hoodies, peanuts, winkies (too funny) or that more than a few would be SO defensive about a decision (to circumcise or not) that was made for them...

...its my understanding that circumsizing male infants started out as a white thing here (usofa) and it got pushed in all kinds of ways - religious - ridiculous hygiene / prude issues - it'll be purtier - dont want your son to look different - and - it was also pushed that an uncircumsized male indicated low social status, which always worked on the snooty pooties...

...oh, yeah, that pesky intellectual part... is it mutilation?... yep... is it the same as female genital mutilation?... nope, not even close... is it archaic, barbaric?... yep... do only bad parents have their sons circumsized?... nope, most are just followers that never question what society says is the norm...

...one poster had the audacity to say that an uncircumsized penis looked like an animal's winkie... i wonder what he thinks he is, if not an animal... weird...

...another poster asked who would want to look at an uncircumsized penis in porn movies... i raised my hand, laughed out loud and asked who cares as long as it works?... i thought his question was very strange because none of my SOs would have EVER noticed if bozo was cut or not because they wouldve been focused on the actress's big fake boobs or coochee...

...an aussie guy posted that male circumcision is an area women need to keep their nose out of.... on behalf of women who rear sons by themselves, i'll say that whether you decide to circumsize your male infant or not is your biz and no one else's...

...i'm off to cook pork chops in bourbon sauce and hang those dang curtains before it gets dark...

reply to post by B.Morrison[Scene 251 - panning L>R wide shot - cont music "Barber's Adagio For Strings" William Orbit - cue SFX: radio babble]
Sgt. Communication: Sir, I've got Major Id's FCP telling me that the Red Cross have been on the line to General BDsego to ask him to halt our offensive.
Lt. Pragmatist: What's battalion saying?
Sgt. Communication: I'm not sure, sir. They seem to be leaving it up to us... so if it goes tits up, its our fault.
Lt. Pragmatist: Right. By the book then. Give my compliments to Major Id & inform him that, without further orders, we are duty bound to follow those we already have. Then get on to General Cleanpenis's CP & inform him that phase 1 was a success; the objective is secure, so he can move onto phase 2. [Turns to rest of platoon] Hopefully, when the mechanised get here, we can bugger off & get some rest!
Extras: [Subdued Agreement]
Cpl. Compassion: Init tho?
Sgt. Action: I'm not bothered...
Pvt. Cruelty: [Lights hexamine stove to brew more tea & sighs]
[End Scene]

lol, leave him alone BD... poor guy... he's gone and blocked you now!

Yeah, but he's had some stars, so @least 1 person is reading this & agreeing with him.
I'm intending to reply to Kailassa's last soon &, then, this next will probably make more sense:
If Gorman91 or whoever starred his posts wants to come out of their bunker, I will resort to the literary equivalent of carpet-bombing or even total nuclear warfare, if necessary, b/c this is about HARMING KIDS for f#s sake!

reply to post by KailassaYeah, I think my worst parenting mistake was banning my son from riding motorbikes. What did he do as soon as he went to uni? Build his own 900cc from scrapped parts of expensive bikes, so although its road legal, its not much different from an ultra-light track bike: little bastard!

fighting with the goyim against their own faith

I'm in an odd position, b/c my Jewish family are far from orthodox. Thus they dont consider me goyim exactly, but not Jewish either. I think the older 1s still hope I might get the snip & join them (not unless its rotting off!).
I was in Tel Aviv for a big family do & some cousins & I were clearing up the kitchen. 1 said, "Even if you dont want to study, you should get circumcised." I'd taken time out of making money, that my pregnant wife & I badly needed, to travel to Israel at my own expense, bought my own yarmulke & even eaten a mouthful of something not vegetarian as a symbolic gesture of solidarity. Now you want me to chop part of my knob off?
This same debate began. He eventually tried to shut me up with a wok. I retaliated with the 2nd dish-rack. We were rightly ashamed of ourselves.
However, this is the internet, so whatever we say becomes part of the publicly accessible body of human knowledge. Therefore, in matters of ethics, I will not budge 1mm unless someone can demonstrate that I'm mistaken. It'll take a lot more than "god says", disputed medical info & arguments from personal experience that have already been proved false.
(Relevance, oh ye complainers, = corollery discussion, ie talking about the debate, not to it.)

reply to post by Kailassa(Relevance = respect, corollary, veracity & when is the psyche irrelevant to human affairs? + there's a twist in the tail/tale?)
Sounds like you've been through the wringer with therapists! Still, you've clearly come through with an open mind, so your ego doesn't need irrational defence: you must've learned. Reespeck me sistren! (That means: giving you flowers & buggering off before you wonder if I'm trying to get into your pants.)
Maybe I'm lucky, but, I was so nervous the 1st time, I got to therapy with a hard mask on, based on an attitude of "I've problems. I sort of know what they are. I need you to help fill in details & explain exactly why what you think is a way forward is a good idea. Oh, & if you mess me up, you'll 'kin wish you hadn't." The bloke told me straight that he'd help with some areas & the rest was beyond him, but he'd refer me. We had some sessions while the referral went on. They taught me how it works, so I didn't have to rely on blind faith. However, I've moved around a lot, so I couldn't always stick with the best...

one used to bawl her eyes out if I told her about things that had happened to me and I'd have to comfort her

I had 1 obsessed with whale-song on a crap stereo: I had to get her to desist. With hindsight, she may have needed it as distraction to maintain her professional demeanor. Here's the tale:
[In our 1&only foray into full polyamoury, my wife & I were in love with a woman I'll call X. X, her son, my wife, our 2 kids & I all lived together for about 4yrs. X had been told she couldn't have more kids due to complications last time. About 2yrs on, she became pregnant by me: we were all shocked but pleased. X went into labour &, due to unusually heartless actions by others, I couldn't be there. I got back about 30hrs later: nobody home.]
(Cont below & the reason for this'll become clear when my troops overrun Gen. Knobchopper's position :d )

Originally posted by nixie_nox
What a shame, and It is sad you try to compare the two. Female genital mutilation is a young girl being thrown to the grown by three grown men, and the local shaman cutting it off with a knife, no anesthesia, no antiseptic, nothing.

Young women run to other countries, run to other nations, to halfway houses, ANYTHING to get away from this awful ritual. Leaving friends and family behind to never see again.

Many of the girls get sexually assaulted at the same time.

It also renders a girl useless to enjoy sex.

I am not condoning circumcision, but to compare the two is not realistic.

You should read the original post before you post in a thread...

1. They also can't give babies anesthesia
2. The foreskin is the male version of a clitoris

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

You continue to use the term mutilation, IMO, that's like throwing around Hitler comparisons anytime somebody does something you don't agree with. It's a simple procedure, it's not mutilation. And why you completely discount the many studies that do show benefit from the procedure and the doctors that do believe it is beneficial, but put 100% faith in those who are against it, is beyond me. As I said, it's the choice of the parents, and it's common here in the U.S. That seems to not be the case in the U.K. which is fine, I for one am not trying to push it on your country. Please refrain from trying to push your opinions on ours, when we want british nannies, we'll hire them. We got out from under the crown long ago.

edit on 25-9-2010 by 27jd because: (no reason given)

You might feel that this sort of mutilation is worth the benefits but it is still mutilation.

It is forever removing a specific part of the body.

The penis is no longer whole.

It is undeniably a form of mutilation.

reply to post by Kailassa(cont from above)
[On the phone, I found out the kids were with mates: anxious but ok. The girls were @the hospital with another mate. I couldn't get in b/c I wasn't family of 'the patient' & they assumed our mate was the father. It took ages, but I got to the delivery suite & found them all in a right mess. Moments later, the Dr said "I'm terribly sorry but your baby has died."
In response to my absence, the girls had done something that added even more pathos.]
The therapist began crying, but insisted that an emotional reaction was perfectly normal & I should continue.
[X still had to give birth. It took a further 12hrs-ish & was rough, but she survived & the gynacologist believed she would be able to have more kids if the latter stages were managed correctly.
About 2yrs later, X got to that point all parents reach eventually where she just needed a break from the responsibility. By then, the 6 of us were a family, each considering the others 'ours'. X went on holiday with some mates. They got intoxicated. She drowned.]
The therapist sobbed but insisted I continue.
[X's parents, who had not turned up for either the baby's or her funeral, successfully applied to the courts for custody of their grandson & to have the 4 of us forbidden from making contact. They moved him to their home on the Isle of Wight, so circumventing the court order was not easy.]
The therapy sesh was about 3months after the court decision. The kids were distraught, my wife was seriously plotting murder & I was at the end of my tether. I was sobbing by this stage also.
[We had to wait for him to get out from under their radar to phone us & tell us the no. of the phonebox. Then he'd call us, let it ring 3times, disconnect & repeat. We'd know to call that phonebox. He wasn't trusted with enough money to complete a call usually & reversing the charges would've left an obvious paper-trail.]
(Cont below - I'm getting there!)

reply to post by Kailassa(cont from above)
The therapist had completely broken down & I wasn't far off myself. She came over & hugged me.
Now, I dont like physical contact unless its with my very closest family & friends, or is a prelude to sex. I certainly dont enjoy exchanging snot with mere acquaintances.
She was quite hot also & I suffered from the ordinary, if inappropriate, male physical response. She noticed but upped the hug into borderline caress. I was acutely aware that she was so vulnerable that she was way past caring about professional ethics & I could have done anything I liked with her. Well, I cared, not just for me but her also.
I just had to cuddle her until we'd calmed down, suggest a cup of tea, & then bugger off & not go back!
2 things then:
1) Our family was mutilated without our consent for no other reason than that it wasn't normal. Part of me thinks my ex-wife had the right idea. Its ok now, but the 4 of us dont have the degree of trust & doing-our-best-to-provide unconditional love with X's son as we do between us.
2) X had both Type 1&2 herpes simplex. She was definitely born with Type 2, but may have picked up Type 1 @school etc. There'd have been no point asking her mum b/c the woman is not only a major prude but also a harridan (I expect her husband's last thoughts were something like "Oh well, @least I dont have to listen to that bitch anymore.").
X was also bi &, in 4yrs of regular 1on1 & 3way unprotected sex, despite my intact member, neither my ex-wife nor I caught either from her. This is b/c it never broke out (& also likely why I didn't recognise a pre-sore mark for what it was when I caught Type 1, b/c I'd never seen it before & the info available showed actual sores).
To all ye foreskin-o-phobes, I'm tempted to use the old chestnut "put that in your pipe & smoke it", but it just wont do. Instead:
Chop that on your mirror & insufflate it!

I'm a lapsed muslim and I opted for non-circumcision of my son. I was circumcised (being a muslim and it was the 70's).

But in the end we had to do it anyway because the poor boy got an infection which tightened his foreskin and so it was difficult and painful for him to pee. Poor kid was 10 at the time.

In my opinion I believe you shouldn't need to get it done until you need to get it done.

I understand where they were coming from in history where cleanliness was an issue and it was a necessity but it became another tradition of organised religion, and nowdays it should only be optional.

reply to post by 27jd


I'm very aware that doctors don't force parents to have their sons circumcised and I certainly have no problems with parents who choose to have their baby boys circumcised. I personally wouldn't do that because I'd much rather let my son make that decision for himself when he's old enough to do so.

The only reason I question these "benefits" is because the U.S. is still the only country where circumcision is still at its highest and let's face it, in North America, especially the U.S., physical appearances are #1 on the lists of many people both male and female. That's why I think that so many American doctors are quick to say that there are "benefits" to having the foreskin removed because many are led to believe that it looks better then if left uncut. If there were so many problems associated with the foreskin being left as is then wouldn't many men from African, European, etc. countries be dealing with problem after problem all because they still have their foreskin because circumcision is mainly only done for religious reasons in other parts of the world? That's why I question many of these so called "benefits".

reply to post by ofhumandescent

We don't agree on much, ofhumandescent, but I agree with you on this.

Even though you're completely offside comparing a foreskin to a clitoris. There is absolutely no similarity in either function or appearance. The foreskin is not sexually responsive at all. How do I know? I have one. Outside the United States, Israel and the Muslim world, most men do.

Circumcision is a very weird cultural ritual. It's understandable, in a way, when the ritual has religious associations. But when it is a secular ritual? Bizarre.

And all that business about cancer and infection is a complete crock, by the way.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Well, you see, the Jews of the Bible circumcised their conquered slaves. American males are often circumcised without consent of the parents or anyone else, to show that they are slaves to the Jews.

reply to post by SirTFiedSkeptic


If I could go back 35 years.

My oldest son celebrates his 35th tomorrow.