Religion and Poverty, Would the abolishment of places of worship end the latter?

Ok guys, let's take our thinking caps out for a second.
I was reading about the "ground zero mosque" and apparently the cost of it is 100Million Dollars!
Wowserz!!!!

And I thought to myself, with all the tax breaks and donations that these religious institutions get... all combined... could it end poverty?

For all the christians out there, instead of having a place of worship wouldn't having that money help the poor with clothing, food and a shelter be the more christian thing to do? Instead of sitting on your arses while a man in cloth speaks how about going out in the field and making some soup for these people?

Same goes for muslims, hindus, catholics, jains and everything.

In one state alone the money going to places of beliefs would be in the hundreds of millions, this is one state alone i'm talking about here.

Instead of building or renovating places or worship... sell the damn place, use the money you would have gotten from donations and the sale of the land and help the homeless.

So my question is... would the end of religious institutions end poverty?

Thoughts?

Good Question OP!

It's my belief that organized religion is the bane of humanity. Spirituality on the other hand, may be its saviour.
I think it's a great idea to do what you propose, however that would actually require people to take some personal responsibility for their own spiritual development, and let's face it, most are too lazy to take that on. It's so much simpler to drop your 20 in the collection plate and claim your salvation. For really, that is what the churches all are selling.

It's the same institution that claims to be in a leg up for the sick, the poor, the weak, that ultimately create it, or at the very least will do nothing but pay lip service and line its' coffers on the backs of the very individuals it professes to aid.

Personal responsibility is the only solution.

you really need to find jesus man. those places you want to abolish provide for the homeless. They have soup kitchens and donations to the poor. every month at our place of worship food bags are put togeather for the poor. now where we going to do that if you abolish places of worship?

reply to post by camaro68ss


How about your nice warm home, with full cupboards and cozy beds. You do know you can do that sort of thing in dwellings that aren't lined with stained glass windows and rows and rows of pews.

reply to post by Cherryontop


i understand that but a Church brings in a community to pray together and help other members of the community out. It’s a big building thats laid out to hold hundreds of people. My house can hold hundreds of people.

The community donates to the church and a lot of that money goes to the soup kitchen attacked to the building and helps feed the poor. Why would you want to abolish a place that preaches to live a good life and be kind to your fellow man?

i think this is a stupid agument.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
you really need to find jesus man.

I already found him, but he prefers to be called José

Originally posted by camaro68ss
those places you want to abolish provide for the homeless. They have soup kitchens and donations to the poor.

Which great, but a drop in the ocean.
For example:

Our Lady of Grace Catholic Church in Edina did it the hard way: Its fundraising campaign for a $4.1 million renovation project started in 2008, just as the economy went into a nosedive.

Undaunted, church leaders took a leap of faith - and their faith has been rewarded: They’re just wrapping up a $4.1 million renovation that includes everything from new carpeting and lighting to a geothermal heating and cooling system.

finance-commerce.com...

making soup is great... sure... but 4.1M is ALOT more, and this is just ONE example of ONE church,
Now one church combined with all places of worship of all faiths in that state is how much money do you think?

Way more than a bowl of soup!

Originally posted by camaro68ss
every month at our place of worship food bags are put togeather for the poor. now where we going to do that if you abolish places of worship?

If a church can create a community of people so can a small group of people with an incredibly cheap headquarters.

Food bags are great, but still if there is still poverty then what you are doing is helping but is insufficient.

reply to post by camaro68ss


If we each took responsibility to see that the people around us had their needs met, there would be no need for the Church to do it for us. That's my point.
Personal responsibility. Learn it. Live it.

thats what a Church is. its a group of people in a cheap building getting to geather to help one another and to pray. you must be pulling up so place in a city. the church i go to is run down but its money goes to the poor not remaking it. there is a fund right now to help restore it.

If only rich people were heavily taxed we could abolish poverty.

If only alcohol was heavily taxed we could abolish poverty.

If only fast foods were heavily taxed we could abolish poverty.

If only Walmart... see where I'm going with this?

It won't happen, we'll just spend it on something stupid like bigger toys for the military or plane tickets and dinners for government people.

I feel like places of worship should be comfortable, not extravagant. I agree there is a need for churches but they do not need a geothermal heating system along with $4 million in upgrades.
They shouldn't be shabby either .. just comfortable for the size and needs of the specific place. For example, if a church decided they were going to participate in The Angelfood program, I think it would be ok to update the facility to accommodate that if needed.
The excess money saved could make a world of difference to the poor . They could cloth and feed so many more if the church would just learn to live within their means.

If only we got rid of this which cost money.

If only we got rid of that which cost money.

If only we got rid of those which cost money.

If only we got rid of....

MONEY

You cannot eat it, you cannot live under it, you cannot clothe yourself in it. It is an imaginary creation, created to keep us in a competition for survival mentality. Throw the money lenders from the temple of Earth, clean house of their evils, and feed the world.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Yeah, I'd rather have a currency based system over barter.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Yeah, I'd rather have a currency based system over barter.

Who said anything about barter? Why have trade at all?

Do we not have a system in place that could function to provide for all without any kind of trade necessary?

Example:

Farmers love to farm. Don't believe me go ask one.
So, they keep on doing what they like to do.

Truckers love to truck. Don't believe me, go ask them.
So, they keep doing what they like to do.

Now the produce is made and has made it to the store.
Those who like to stock the shelves, stock them.

You need some tatters for your dinner, you go get it.

Feed yourself, wake up and go do the job you like to do.

No trade involved, and you do your part for society.

The problem is none of us have faith in each other. We have forgotten to trust our fellow man to contribute. This is because we have beaten each other down with our system of compete to survive. This is not how it is intended.

If the Stock clerk had the same quality of life as the Store manager, wouldn't someone be content to do the job?

YES

It is in our nature, we just gotta get back to it.

Love all, be happy, live in peace.

With love,

Your Brother

Go to a basic college course in economics. It will truly enlighten you.

Originally posted by 547000
Go to a basic college course in economics. It will truly enlighten you.

So that I can learn the laws of supply and demand?
So that I can become a skilled money changer?
So that I can learn how best to profit off the labors of my Brothers and Sisters, and climb my way to the top of the social pyramid?
Maybe even become a corporate demi god myself?

Keep this doctrine if you want it. I'll have none of it.

The Law of supply and demand is simple. If you see a need, fill it, or help others fill it. Take only that which you need, for others need as well.

Economics only teaches us that we only deserve that which we have attained the social status to acquire.

There is no social status, but in our minds. All are equal before God. All jobs are necessary, for our survival and advancement.

No, so you can learn how people behave in the real world. So you can learn of basic things like "tragedy of the commons" and what things like "rational incentive" is.

If you want paradise, people would need to get everything they desire without effort. As long as effort is required, TANSTAAFL.

Originally posted by 547000
No, so you can learn how people behave in the real world. So you can learn of basic things like "tragedy of the commons" and what things like "rational incentive" is.

If you want paradise, people would need to get everything they desire without effort. As long as effort is required, TANSTAAFL.

My friend, you and I view a couple of things differently, that is all.

"Real World" is quiet subjective. What you perceive as the real world, is radically different than what I see. Regardless, my view is as real to me as yours is to you.

For example, I practice what I preach, living outside the system, helping people where I can for no money or expectation of return. Others give me what I need with no expectation of return. I am in paradise, as I define it for I want nothing that is not provided and I provide for others.

Granted, I don't drive a Jaguar, have a fashion model for a wife, a mansion for a house, and a bank account which I get watch grow and grow and grow. Nor am I working like a slave to just barely get by. But, I do have treasure and wealth beyond that which most would ever understand. I am loved more than most could ever dream, and I love more than most are capable.

That is my economics.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM


For example, I practice what I preach, living outside the system, helping people where I can for no money or expectation of return. Others give me what I need with no expectation of return. I am in paradise, as I define it for I want nothing that is not provided and I provide for others.

So you found the magic 40-ouncer, that we can pass from hand to hand, all take a drink and the bottle never empties...Pass it on over to me, then, "brother"...

But what's really going on is that somebody's working, and somebody's leeching...somebody is a fool doing more than they should, and somebody else is being kept alive, when they don't deserve it...somebody is getting over, baby...But I guess if it fills your days, to each his own...

What a pile...it isn't religion that's the problem, the churches, the political system. or the military. It's the PEOPLE, stupid! It's us. Call it original sin if you will, call it greed, lust for power, whatever you want to call it. We can shovel blame to any and all systems we want, but it is US, humans that are the problem. We expcet our systems to be perfect, but not the people who are in them or who run them. That don't feed the bulldog, boys and girls. Go look in the mirror!

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
So you found the magic 40-ouncer, that we can pass from hand to hand, all take a drink and the bottle never empties...Pass it on over to me, then, "brother"...

Yes, My Brother, I have.

Take a 40 ouncer, with forty Brothers and Sisters who all love each other and want not more than the next. Divide the 40 ounce into one ounce shots, all drink. If you have 80 Brothers and Sisters, 1/2 ounce shots. Divide equally among all, for that is true love in a family.

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eelBut what's really going on is that somebody's working, and somebody's leeching...somebody is a fool doing more than they should, and somebody else is being kept alive, when they don't deserve it...somebody is getting over, baby...But I guess if it fills your days, to each his own...

edit on 11-9-2010 by nine-eyed-eel because: (no reason given)

Here you cast judgement, weigh each according to your scale of who contributes and who does not. Teach your family to love, and none will want another to work harder than another, nor would they want one to do with more than another.

If we start loving each other as a family, which we are, then will we stop judging each other, start loving each other, and fullfill a greater destiny than the one we now live.

With Love,

Your Brother