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Religion and Poverty, Would the abolishment of places of worship end the latter?

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posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ok guys, let's take our thinking caps out for a second.
I was reading about the "ground zero mosque" and apparently the cost of it is 100Million Dollars!
Wowserz!!!!

And I thought to myself, with all the tax breaks and donations that these religious institutions get... all combined... could it end poverty?


No, it could not. A tax break isn't money, and the government isn't in the business of ending poverty, their own claims not withstanding. Donations? They're voluntary (unless you're a Mormon, lol) so unless you're planning on legislating the act of charity, not going to be something you can count on.

The other side of this aggravates me to no end. When someone brings up something like this, the implication is that the 100 million dollars (or whatever) goes into a hole someplace. Which it does not, it goes into the pockets of the workers who build the thing. That's 100 million dollars that is likely going from a fair number of people who wouldn't have spent it otherwise, to another fair number of people who wouldn't have had work otherwise.

It's like when someone tells me to turn off the tap to avoid "wasting water." No, idiot, you cannot waste water. You can waste the energy required to clean it, but the water doesn't go down the drain to be obliterated, which it would have to do in order to be "wasted."




posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by 547000
No, so you can learn how people behave in the real world. So you can learn of basic things like "tragedy of the commons" and what things like "rational incentive" is.

If you want paradise, people would need to get everything they desire without effort. As long as effort is required, TANSTAAFL.


My friend, you and I view a couple of things differently, that is all.

"Real World" is quiet subjective. What you perceive as the real world, is radically different than what I see. Regardless, my view is as real to me as yours is to you.

For example, I practice what I preach, living outside the system, helping people where I can for no money or expectation of return. Others give me what I need with no expectation of return. I am in paradise, as I define it for I want nothing that is not provided and I provide for others.

Granted, I don't drive a Jaguar, have a fashion model for a wife, a mansion for a house, and a bank account which I get watch grow and grow and grow. Nor am I working like a slave to just barely get by. But, I do have treasure and wealth beyond that which most would ever understand. I am loved more than most could ever dream, and I love more than most are capable.

That is my economics.

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 11-9-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



Why should people work when everything is free? What will you do when many people don't work to contribute to society? Should we force them at gunpoint?

As long as effort is needed, nothing is free. Why should someone clean septic tanks when they could do just as well sitting on their butts greeting people at Walmart? Do you think there is someone who enjoys cleaning septic tanks?

And why are you using the internet? Stop paying for the internet and start giving that money to needy people. Internet is not a need but a desire.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
Why should people work when everything is free? What will you do when many people don't work to contribute to society? Should we force them at gunpoint?


My friend, EVERYONE works now. We just do not see their contributions as worth anything. The Single mother who sits at home having babies which our current system supports with food stamps and government housing IS working. She is bringing new children into this world who will bring more children into this world. Even if those children do the same, one of those children, given the opportunity will contribute something more to society. They may even be the next Mozart. Furthermore, this "welfare" mom could do a much better job raising her children if given the opportunity. There is an old African saying that strikes to this point, "it takes a village to raise a child."


Originally posted by 547000As long as effort is needed, nothing is free. Why should someone clean septic tanks when they could do just as well sitting on their butts greeting people at Walmart? Do you think there is someone who enjoys cleaning septic tanks?


Yes, I do think there are some who enjoy cleaning septic tanks. How do I know? Because these are the questions I have asked people that I have encountered through Life. They do not clean septic systems because that is all they are capable of doing. They clean them because it is a job that needs to be done. There is something quite divine in that answer.


Originally posted by 547000And why are you using the internet? Stop paying for the internet and start giving that money to needy people. Internet is not a need but a desire.


I use the internet because I reach more people. It is but one of many tools that I use. I also talk to people face to face. It is much easier face to face to convey these simple messages. I do not pay for the internet. It is there so I use it. I do not have money. I gave it all away. I use access points where ever I can find them.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

My friend, EVERYONE works now. We just do not see their contributions as worth anything. The Single mother who sits at home having babies which our current system supports with food stamps and government housing IS working. She is bringing new children into this world who will bring more children into this world. Even if those children do the same, one of those children, given the opportunity will contribute something more to society. They may even be the next Mozart. Furthermore, this "welfare" mom could do a much better job raising her children if given the opportunity. There is an old African saying that strikes to this point, "it takes a village to raise a child."


What will you do when everything is free and many people do not want to work?


Yes, I do think there are some who enjoy cleaning septic tanks. How do I know? Because these are the questions I have asked people that I have encountered through Life. They do not clean septic systems because that is all they are capable of doing. They clean them because it is a job that needs to be done. There is something quite divine in that answer.


When everything is free, there is no such thing as a job to do. All is for pleasure, and cleaning a septic tank or scraping off roadkill is not pleasure.


I use the internet because I reach more people. It is but one of many tools that I use. I also talk to people face to face. It is much easier face to face to convey these simple messages. I do not pay for the internet. It is there so I use it. I do not have money. I gave it all away. I use access points where ever I can find them.


I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If so, congratulations, you will be going to Heaven for sure, and I have respect for you. You're braver than I. In the country where I'm from you'd be left starving on the side of a road to die if you had no money.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by 547000


I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If so, congratulations, you will be going to Heaven for sure, and I have respect for you. You're braver than I. In the country where I'm from you'd be left starving on the side of a road to die if you had no money.


I have zero respect for him...he can't tell if someone is urinating on his foot or if it's raining...and that's assuming that he's not lying about his precious happy world of love, I bet if we examined him we would find he doesn't really practice this charming hoo-hah worth a damn...I hate his kind.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by nine-eyed-eel
 


If he has really done what he claims to have done, then he has done what Christ would have done.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
What will you do when everything is free and many people do not want to work?


My friend, you are misinterpreting my message. It is one of love. It is one of non-judgement. If you teach people to love, by loving them, they will want to work some way, to the best of their abilities in fact. Why? Because when you love, you do not want to see another struggle more than you. Therefore, you will look inside yourself to see what you can do to contribute. You will find some way to contribute. If you have not the knowledge to contribute, you will seek it out. If another loves you and sees your desire to contribute, he will teach you a skill that is needed.

"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a life time."

Charity (Love) is more than simply giving. If you see someone who is so without love that they have given up on ALL, Love them. Through Love, they will again feel their part in society. They will want to contribute in some way. When they start to contribute, judge not the value of their contribution. That only snuffs out their desire and love. Be grateful and Love them. This will encourage them to contribute even more.

Have faith my Brother. Mankind is better than we think. We are of divine origin.


Originally posted by 547000When everything is free, there is no such thing as a job to do. All is for pleasure, and cleaning a septic tank or scraping off roadkill is not pleasure.


A wise man once told me, "When you love what you do, there is no such thing as work". You may not see cleaning a septic tank as joyful, or cleaning road kill off the street. However, their are those who do. They know it needs to be done, and they know that they are capable of enjoying doing it, and they take pleasure in the fact that they do what others have not the stomach to do. You don't, but that doesn't mean that quite a few of the 6 Billion people on this planet are like you. You have what you enjoy to contribute, and others have theirs.


Originally posted by 547000I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If so, congratulations, you will be going to Heaven for sure, and I have respect for you. You're braver than I. In the country where I'm from you'd be left starving on the side of a road to die if you had no money.


In my country there are regrettably, many living on the side of the road without money. They survive through the kindness of others, and there own will to feed on that which others throw away. Imagine that, you have had your fill of something and rather than share it with someone else, it gets tossed in the trash.

I once worked in a grocery store. The amount of food which is thrown away because it passed shelf life is staggering. Food that did not sell, because others could not afford it. So, it gets tossed. It can not be given away because the store may get sued and lose more money. If this is what we think is the right way to live, we are seriously in error. This is not Love.

Yes, I am serious. Yes, I hope to open eyes to what we have become. Yes I hope to open ears to the lamentations of our Brothers and Sisters. Yes, I hope to open hearts to the wonder and beauty of ALL Gods children. Yes I hope to open minds to the fact that we are all Kings and Queens of this earth and should treat each other as such. Yes I hope I have succeeded, at least a little in all this, with you.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
I have zero respect for him...he can't tell if someone is urinating on his foot or if it's raining...and that's assuming that he's not lying about his precious happy world of love, I bet if we examined him we would find he doesn't really practice this charming hoo-hah worth a damn...I hate his kind.


My friend, I am simply sharing my life, and my view of life and all you have to contribute to the conversation is condemnation of what I share. I did not ask you to do what I do. I did not ask you to believe as I believe. Yet, you choose to judge me anyway, and even doubt that which I say.

I am not seeking my own aggrandisement. I could have easily registered this account with a name more familiar to the world, that people may say hey I know "my name", gee whiz is he great. But I don't.

I chose my name here very carefully. This way when you read my words and think gee whiz, "who is this great person?" all you can answer is I AM.

Think about it my Brother.

So, if physical examples are all you will believe, I will invite you to come see me. Come see that what I say is true. I will gladly visit with you, let you see my life, and hopefully find that what I say is absolutely what I do.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel
 


If he has really done what he claims to have done, then he has done what Christ would have done.


Isn't that all Christ asked us to do?

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:38 AM
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I love your idealism, but I suggest you go to a library and read up on economic theory and read up on the history of communism. When you see the fallacies for yourself, you will realize the importance of economic freedom. Nothing I can say will sway you, believe me, I know, when I was uneducated in such matters I thought such things were best too; but when you realize the fallacies for yourself after actual study, you will probably err on the side of liberty over safety.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
I love your idealism, but I suggest you go to a library and read up on economic theory and read up on the history of communism. When you see the fallacies for yourself, you will realize the importance of economic freedom. Nothing I can say will sway you, believe me, I know, when I was uneducated in such matters I thought such things were best too; but when you realize the fallacies for yourself after actual study, you will probably err on the side of liberty over safety.


My friend, absolute liberty is absolute safety.

I am not a communist. Communism gives ALL to the state.

I propose no state but the individual.

Anarchy, is the most perfect form of government for it is no government. Yet, it cannot exist without first teaching people to love.

Therefore, all I have to offer this world is love. Absolute unconditional love.

I do not live my life for this life. I live it for my next life. Not my next life on some astral plane. But my next life in this very physical world. Even now I have taught at least two people the power of unconditional love. They will each teach at least two more. And it will continue until one of my lives will have the heaven I want on this earth.

It could happen in this life time. But, it begins with you. For each who chooses to live a life of judgement, a life devoid of unconditional love for all, only hinders the process.

Each must find it in their own way, and once found in their own way, share it in their own way.

This is my way.

I assure you I have a firm understanding of economics. I was a successful Real Estate agent. I have worked in Logistics and understand the laws of supply and demand. I know how the current system works. It is a system of shackles and chains. But, that is my perspective, you are welcome to your own.

With love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Well, to tell you the truth, I tried to find something to nitpick, but couldn't find anything to nitpick about you without feeling like a hypocrite or a nonbeliever. I hate this world so, so much, and won't ever see it become a paradise unless sickness, hunger, sorrow, and death is exterminated and a God or representation of God lives among us. I don't think we are part of God, for if we were, we could all feel His presence, of love and light, but we are seperated from that presence.


edit on 12-9-2010 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM


So, if physical examples are all you will believe, I will invite you to come see me. Come see that what I say is true. I will gladly visit with you, let you see my life, and hopefully find that what I say is absolutely what I do.

With Love,

Your Brother



Oh, hell yes...let's fraternize!

I love inappropriate over-involvement - I do it all the time - and it's a safe bet that one or both of us is headed towards that right now...IT'LL BE GREAT !!!

I'm in Utah...where you at ?



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 


My friend, God did send his representative into this world. It is someone who feels his presence through love. It is someone hears his voice of love. It is someone who refuses to judge his creation but simply accept that his creation is love.

I would like to introduce you to this person. Think on all I have told you. Think on all that makes YOU feel love. Think on the perfection all around you. Then take a moment to look in a mirror. Stare deep into your own soul. Look past all the pain that has built up your fortress. Look at how wonderful you are.

You are God's representative. It is up to you to act like it.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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I don't feel love though. I just feel a numbness where I'm supposed to feel love.



posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 


No worries my friend. I once only felt the numbness you speak of as well. It is better than hate.

Try this then, borrow someone else's love. It is all around you.

Go out into the world and watch children play. Feed on their joy.

Go out into the world and watch young lover's embrace. Walk up and tell them how beautiful their love is. I promise you it will put a smile on their face that will warm your heart.

Go out into the world and share a meal with someone who has none. Don't judge, just enjoy the company. I promise you, that you will feel the warmth of love in that company.

Go out into the world and visit a random stranger in the hospital. Ask the nurse their who has no visitors, and visit that person. Comfort them. Enjoy what ever it is they have to share. You will feel the warmth of love.

Love when you give it grows inside you. This I promise.

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 12-9-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



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